Butch says it takes 6 to 7 years to build a program in the SEC

#777
#777
Iam4utalways said:
Being in the SEC we so control our own destiny when it comes to a NC each year. Many programs that go undefeated in a non powere conf.(Memphis) could win out and never get a shot and their only goal can be to win the conf. and get a good bowl game. The Vols played a major role in building the SEC to what it is today. Back in the 90's we were the gold standard, and only won, one NC. The next time we dominate a decade I would prefer more NCs. Please don't get us counting SECe as the prize.
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UT wasn't the gold standard. UF was... unfortunately. I hate them but Spurrier owned Fulmer and ruined most seasons.

When have I ever suggested winning the East was the prize?
 
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#778
#778
I guess Im one of the few that gets what he's saying. He isn't saying you cant win early, hes talking about building a program that wins year in year old consistently on a national level, not just the SEC east.

Its having depth in the LOS, hell, if you people think this program has depth you're either ignorant or lying to yourself. This, is year 3 is a patch work job along both lines. And frankly some of the "depth" isn't SEC-championship caliber. Not even close.

Yes Florida is going to win a SEC East this yr. Mainly due to two players who loafed and blew coverage on a 4th and 14. Neither of them are SEC championship caliber. Florida is several years away themselves of consistently winning SEC championships and competing for NCs. They caught lightning in a bottle this year, but they could easily fall back just like in Muschamps 3rd yr after his 11-2 run. Butch is talking no serious fall back yrs.
 
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#780
#780
at the end of year 7 butch needs at least 1 national championship and 2 sec titles with multiple victorys over bama and florida.
 
#781
#781
sjt18 said:
UT wasn't the gold standard. UF was... unfortunately. I hate them but Spurrier owned Fulmer and ruined most seasons.

When have I ever suggested winning the East was the prize?
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What about the Decade of Dominance, VHS?
You got me on that one, I don't mind being wrong, just what I'm wrong about. I'm sorry he left Florida, it was so sweet when we beat him at Florida, didn't happen often, but it was sweet when we did.

You have never suggested that the SECe was the prize, I'm just trying to draw a line somewhere, and I choose the NC and you choose SEC. I think you should rethink what your expectations are. If we win the SEC and then lose in the playoffs, I will be disappointed.
 
#782
#782
govols105 said:
at the end of year 7 butch needs at least 1 national championship and 2 sec titles with multiple victorys over bama and florida.
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What he has in mind, that would be below expectations. Can he accomplish his master plan, I sure hope so.

Go Vols!
 
#784
#784
Iam4utalways said:
Get Manning back on the hill, it could really happen.
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Can anybody see butch and company being intimidated of Peyton? I can see manning working with qbs watching tape and Peyton (in a room full of coaches)ask who in the hell taught you to do it that way and everybody quietly stares at debord
 
#785
#785
Iam4utalways said:
Being in the SEC we so control our own destiny when it comes to a NC each year. Many programs that go undefeated in a non powere conf.(Memphis) could win out and never get a shot and their only goal can be to win the conf. and get a good bowl game. The Vols played a major role in building the SEC to what it is today. Back in the 90's we were the gold standard, and only won, one NC. The next time we dominate a decade I would prefer more NCs. Please don't get us counting SECe as the prize.
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The next time you dominate a decade, you actually have to dominate the decade
 
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#787
#787
Iam4utalways said:
You have never suggested that the SECe was the prize, I'm just trying to draw a line somewhere, and I choose the NC and you choose SEC. I think you should rethink what your expectations are. If we win the SEC and then lose in the playoffs, I will be disappointed.
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Disappointed? Well sure. But consider it anything close to failure? Not a chance.

I am old enough to remember a time when the SEC wasn't considered the strongest conference and wouldn't have gotten a 1 loss team in. The SEC hate is pretty strong in the media so they'll facilitate that again if they can.

The NC still has politics. Opinion polls from sometimes very biased contributors impact who gets in. I think the things you actually earn are primary.
 
#791
#791
The Tall Gguy said:
6-7 years? Unacceptable. 10 win minimum next year. This year should have been a 10 win year and next year the schedule is friendlier.

6-7 years? Please. That is just garbage.
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IF the schedule is easier in aggregate, it is only marginally so (like 1 game easier). UT trades a home game against one of the bottom tier teams in the SEC west for an away game against a middle to top tier team in the west. A&M has a better recruiting average than UT over the past four years.

UT trades a home game against a similarly talented team (OU) for a neutral site game against a lessor talented team VT, with a new coach. This might be where we can find the one game improvement from expectations.

The rest rides on how well UT closes out recruiting. It is unlikely that UT will have a class good enough to overcome the talent gap that is still maintained by our closest competitors in the East (UF and UGA). It is similarly unlikely that SCAR, the team right below UT talent wise in the SEC east, could have a class good enough to overcome that talent differential. That means that besides the above mentioned game, the rest of the season should have similar expectations.
 
#792
#792
bowlinggreenvol said:
Shula had one top 15 class and two classes in the 40's. Dooley had good ones too then. Oh wait, it doesn't work that way does it? Only here.
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They had talent on both lines and some speed for Saban to work with...he had to huff on adding talent and did quickly but they weren't the hopeless mess Dooley left Butch.
 
#793
#793
butchna said:
Not if they had gone head to head.
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Recruiting? Who knows. Dooley wasn't exactly recruiting during the dark ages of the SEC. And he was by most counts a lazy hack that didn't put much effort into it.

It was nothing more than a side note to Shula not really leaving Saban much in the world of recruiting rankings. Heck Saban's "clean up" class after Shula was fired was better than any Shula signed.:birgits_giggle:
Looking back, thats not really a surprise tho.
 
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#794
#794
butchna said:
You are.
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His highest ranked class was 11. Saban's first class was 10. Shula recruited well but Beecher was right.


YEAR NAT. RANK
2014 1
2013 1
2012 1
2011 1
2010(*) 5
2009 1
2008 1
2007 10
2006 11
2005 18
2004 15
2003 49
2002 30
AVG 11.1
 
#795
#795
volunteerfan said:
Can anybody see butch and company being intimidated of Peyton? I can see manning working with qbs watching tape and Peyton (in a room full of coaches)ask who in the hell taught you to do it that way and everybody quietly stares at debord
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Be honest now. Tell us how many times you've seen Bigfoot on your treks into the woods?
 
#796
#796
KBVol said:
Sorry Daj, just don't believe it.

Also, on another note, if Tennessee was 7-1 right now, with the same exact roster and circumstances that CHM is dealing with, and was sitting in the SECEast catbird seat and was guaranteed a spot in the SECCG game right now, in year 3 mind you.....and I came on here and said "meh...nothing to see here, because any one of at least 100 other college football coaches in the country could do what Jones is doing right now".......Oh my dear God and all that is holy the unmitigated ish I would catch. I'd be called every name in the book, be told I wasn't a real fan, be told to go root for any other team in the country other than Tennessee.
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if UT was 7-1 right now, we would be over-performing in ways that Mac hasn't ever done. That is laudable, but not realistic and extremely rare.

I feel like every year I'm saying the same things. It wasn't that long ago that I was being told how Malzahn was a football wizard and that I was being disrespectful when I said that he was not COY material, in fact he was substantially over-valued. Mac will be a far more stable coach than 2 of the last three clowns Florida has hired but being taller than a toddler doesn't make you tall.

And before the inevitable "well those clowns beat UT", again...when you have substantially more talent than an opponent for a decade, you are expected to win by a ratio of 70/30, each and every time, regardless of coach.
 
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#797
#797
daj2576 said:
if UT was 7-1 right now, we would be over-performing in ways that Mac hasn't ever done. That is laudable, but not realistic and extremely rare.

I feel like every year I'm saying the same things. It wasn't that long ago that I was being told how Malzahn was a football wizard and that I was being disrespectful when I said that he was not COY material, in fact he was substantially over-valued. Mac will be a far more stable coach than 2 of the last three clowns Florida has hired but being taller than a toddler doesn't make you tall.
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Tennessee has played exactly one team with superior talent. Butch Jones being a coward cost us the Oklahoma game and Butch Jones being an coward and an idiot cost us the Florida game.
 
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#798
#798
thebjd said:
His highest ranked class was 11. Saban's first class was 10. Shula recruited well but Beecher was right.


YEAR NAT. RANK
2014 1
2013 1
2012 1
2011 1
2010(*) 5
2009 1
2008 1
2007 10
2006 11
2005 18
2004 15
2003 49
2002 30
AVG 11.1
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Yeah...we already did this. :hi:
 
#799
#799
thebjd said:
His highest ranked class was 11. Saban's first class was 10. Shula recruited well but Beecher was right.


YEAR NAT. RANK
2014 1
2013 1
2012 1
2011 1
2010(*) 5
2009 1
2008 1
2007 10
2006 11
2005 18
2004 15
2003 49
2002 30
AVG 11.1
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If you take into consideration Bama's legal issues around that time I guess you could consider it ok. Never easy to pull players with the AA swirling around.
He averaged a 18th ranked class in his 3 years. O'Dools averaged 13th in his 3.
 
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