To Protect and to Serve...

Status
Not open for further replies.
#11,231
#11,231
I think we're beginning to peel back the layers of these facists' psyches and discovering a pattern of violence being a common and acceptable method of communication in their home lives as children.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#11,235
#11,235
MercyPercy said:
I think we're beginning to peel back the layers of these facists' psyches and discovering a pattern of violence being a common and acceptable method of communication in their home lives as children.
Click to expand...

and you were always told yes, and that is never your fault and you don't have to do what anybody else says.
 
#11,238
#11,238
MercyPercy said:
No, I managed to learn that without an abusive family. My parents used their words.
Click to expand...

I never had an abusive family either. Not once was I hit. My parents were stern but fair. I never got in trouble. I never even had detention. They did, however, teach me to be respectful and to take responsibility for my actions and that others should be responsible for theirs.

That last sentence is what separates us. You like to blame everyone else.
 
#11,239
#11,239
volfanhill said:
If she wont let go of the desk just drag the desk out of the classroom. I had a teacher do this to a disruptive kid in highschool.
Click to expand...

Cool. First answer.

This girl clearly didn't want to be moved. Maybe that would have worked, maybe not. Both are hypothetical scenarios. Let's say for instance she prevents that from happening. What then?
 
#11,241
#11,241
hndog609 said:
I'm not particularly comfortable with what happened in that video but what had she "learned" before that happened? That whatever she wants is what she gets? That rules don't apply to her? That actions she takes that interfere with the lives of others is something she can engage in without repercussion? I'm not particularly impressed with that POV either.

So, and this is a dead honest question (for anyone), exactly what action (or escalation of action) would have been deemed appropriate in this case?
Click to expand...

1. Keep it at a level of non-violence-so long as the rest of the students and staff are safe, there is no need to escalate.
2. There is at least one adult (teacher, administrator etc) at that school that she would listen to. Bring them in, let them get her to move out of the classroom.
3. Take your time. You don't need to end a situation like this immediately. The students are going to learn a lesson one way or the other, why not teach them something about effective conflict resolution? Instead they learned it is us against them...
4. She must still have consequences imposed based on the actual transgression (which I haven't seen in news reporting).
5. Find a school resource officer who has the ability to develop rapport with the students and could have got her out of her seat without violence.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#11,242
#11,242
tumscalcium said:
Cool. First answer.

This girl clearly didn't want to be moved. Maybe that would have worked, maybe not. Both are hypothetical scenarios. Let's say for instance she prevents that from happening. What then?
Click to expand...

Then you get to escalate. IMO, cops are trained to escalate beyond what is necessary to achieve their goals. It creates an atmosphere of distrust in the community, at large.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#11,243
#11,243
tumscalcium said:
How should she have been removed? Still no answer for this.
Click to expand...

Call her mother, father, aunt, uncle, etc, call another teacher that she trusted, or perhaps the school secretary.

There are other adults that could help the situation before it turns to violence.

Now, if that doesn't work, move the rest of the class to an open classroom. Have a discussion with them about the effect of classroom disruptions, while school leaders work out her consequences back in the original classroom. School leaders maintain their authority without looking like a bunch of jackboots.

Reports are saying her infraction was taking out her cell phone in class and not putting it away fast enough.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#11,244
#11,244
tumscalcium said:
I never had an abusive family either. Not once was I hit. My parents were stern but fair.
Click to expand...

Really? You just said this:

tumscalcium said:
If that was me growing up if be afraid to go home. My ass would have been beat.
Click to expand...

So, never were you beat, but you were deathly afraid of getting your ass beat? In high school?

Fascinating.

I never got in trouble. I never even had detention.
Click to expand...

sarcastic-clapping-goerge-clooney.gif


They did, however, teach me to be respectful and to take responsibility for my actions and that others should be responsible for theirs.

That last sentence is what separates us. You like to blame everyone else.
Click to expand...

I imagine much more than that separates us, friend. One of the main things, I've come to conclude based on your posts, is that I can differentiate between holding the girl responsible for her actions and overreacting with violence.

This is merely a simple example so we can examine the problem with your "argument."

Say you cuss at a Bammer fan. You cuss your damn ass off and Bammer Bob snaps. Bammer Bob beats the **** out of you, puts you in a coma.

Do we say: Tums needs to accept responsibility for his actions. He needs to understand how his actions contributed to his situation.

No, we say Bammer Bob was out of line and needs to be punished for overreacting so severely. Recognizing Bammer Bob's overreaction for what it was does not mean your responsibility in the incident is erased; it just means the response was not justified by the cause.
 
Last edited:
#11,245
#11,245
YorkVol said:
1. Keep it at a level of non-violence-so long as the rest of the students and staff are safe, there is no need to escalate.
2. There is at least one adult (teacher, administrator etc) at that school that she would listen to. Bring them in, let them get her to move out of the classroom.
3. Take your time. You don't need to end a situation like this immediately. The students are going to learn a lesson one way or the other, why not teach them something about effective conflict resolution? Instead they learned it is us against them...
4. She must still have consequences imposed based on the actual transgression (which I haven't seen in news reporting).
5. Find a school resource officer who has the ability to develop rapport with the students and could have got her out of her seat without violence.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input YV. To my mind #3 is the big winner. Not only does it make sense but the more she resists what is an obvious effort to not have things turn ugly puts more of the onus on her as being the "bad guy" if it does. Still, patience should have an end. (see #1 below)

The others mostly seem a bit "hopeful". #1 suffers from what could only be an impasse if she's not willing to play nice. The whole idea is that the class doesn't belong to her...there has to be an endgame move and everyone else isn't supposed to just languish in her recalcitrance. #2 is purely assumptive. Could it be correct? Perhaps, but I find it difficult to simply insert it as a distinctly viable action. #4 is all good but doesn't really address the here/now situation unless one assumes the threat of such consequences is sufficient to move her. I would certainly have those consequences made clear before it got physical. #5 is again a bit assumptive in that there's no way to simply know if a different RSO would have had better success. (though I'd like to believe that is the case)
 
#11,246
#11,246
YorkVol said:
Call her mother, father, aunt, uncle, etc, call another teacher that she trusted, or perhaps the school secretary.

There are other adults that could help the situation before it turns to violence.

Now, if that doesn't work, move the rest of the class to an open classroom. Have a discussion with them about the effect of classroom disruptions, while school leaders work out her consequences back in the original classroom. School leaders maintain their authority without looking like a bunch of jackboots.

Reports are saying her infraction was taking out her cell phone in class and not putting it away fast enough.
Click to expand...

If that is truly the case, then this just got even more ridiculous.
 
#11,247
#11,247
MercyPercy said:
Really? You just said this:

So, never were you beat, but you were deathly afraid of getting your ass beat? In high school?

Fascinating..
Click to expand...

Yep. Had I caused such a disruption to be asked to leave, refused then had a school admin tell me to leave, refused then a cop comes in and tells me to leave or he'll force me to and I still refused and had to be forcibly removed while being caught on video for the country to see...... Yeah..... Never hit, but very little doubt had this happened I may have for being a stupid little s***.

However, I was never a worthless F, so it never would have happened anyway.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#11,249
#11,249
hndog609 said:
Thanks for your input YV. To my mind #3 is the big winner. Not only does it make sense but the more she resists what is an obvious effort to not have things turn ugly puts more of the onus on her as being the "bad guy" if it does. Still, patience should have an end. (see #1 below)

The others mostly seem a bit "hopeful". #1 suffers from what could only be an impasse if she's not willing to play nice. The whole idea is that the class doesn't belong to her...there has to be an endgame move and everyone else isn't supposed to just languish in her recalcitrance. #2 is purely assumptive. Could it be correct? Perhaps, but I find it difficult to simply insert it as a distinctly viable action. #4 is all good but doesn't really address the here/now situation unless one assumes the threat of such consequences is sufficient to move her. I would certainly have those consequences made clear before it got physical. #5 is again a bit assumptive in that there's no way to simply know if a different RSO would have had better success. (though I'd like to believe that is the case)
Click to expand...

Good points. In therapy training you learn to look for the difference between the content and the process. Most of the time in these situations there is a reason that the student won't move and the student believes they are acting rationally and are somehow in the right. That is the process that gets missed because we are only paying attention to the content(i.e. her refusal to move).

To be effective (I'm assuming teachers and staff want to be effective with students) you have to address the process as best you can. For example in this type of situation, step back and say "ok, hold on, we have a class to teach and we can't do that if you continue to stay in your chair and for your privacy and ours we need to address this situation in private (content). We don't understand why you refuse to move but are willing to listen once we get to the office. Is there anyone in the building that could help move this along? Or is there someone I can get on the phone so we can move out and let the class resume? (process)"

That question tells the student that we recognize there is something else going on underneath the refusal and gives them a way out of the situation.

Unfortunately we are in a period of reacting strongly to the content without even thinking there may be some process happening internally. Teachers, administrators and school resource officers get offended way too easily when their authority is challenged without even thinking there may be a good reason for that authority to be challenged. Don't think, just obey, otherwise...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#11,250
#11,250
tumscalcium said:
Yep. Had I caused such a disruption to be asked to leave, refused then had a school admin tell me to leave, refused then a cop comes in and tells me to leave or he'll force me to and I still refused and had to be forcibly removed while being caught on video for the country to see...... Yeah..... Never hit, but very little doubt had this happened I may have for being a stupid little s***.

However, I was never a worthless F, so it never would have happened anyway.
Click to expand...

In high school, you were afraid of your parents beating you? We aren't talking about a little kid getting a spanking, we're talking about you in high school.

Damn, dude.
 
New posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Advertisement

Back
Top