To Protect and to Serve...

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#10,377
#10,377
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
I never said the sentence wasn't good enough. I'm fine with it, as no one was hurt, but extreme negligence was used in his case.

Fact is most cops walk, look at the Eric Garner case, the Kelly Thomas case, and plenty more that I don't care to name, the list is endless.

You didn't directly imply fixing government with government but that's basically your stance with your faith in the judicial system.

I find my biggest problem with cops is the inability to opt out of their "protection" I'm a mild mannered chap, I don't break any laws worth speaking of, yet I'm forced to pay for a system of violence that has nothing to do with justice and all to do with enforcement. It's 2015, past time to realize that preventive policing doesn't work. It creates struggles and hardships for otherwise peaceful people who are hurting no one.
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I'd argue it wasn't negligence as he wasn't on duty. Rash stupidity more than anything that really is no different than anyone else doing stupid ****. And got caught, charged and sentenced for it.

System worked as it's supposed to.

Doesn't always I agree.
 
#10,378
#10,378
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
I'm not, believe me. Think of your life, how many government regulations touch your life and profession every day.
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And I'm the first to step up and say the government needs to be dialed back. Which is the basic principle behind my question to Hog. The government is the one that said he is "more" responsible because of training and certifications. I say it's no different than anyone else and standards should be even across the board.
 
#10,379
#10,379
Grand Vol said:
And I'm the first to step up and say the government needs to be dialed back. Which is the basic principle behind my question to Hog. The government is the one that said he is "more" responsible because of training and certifications. I say it's no different than anyone else and standards should be even across the board.
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So the government needs to be dialed back? Who would do the dialing? Surely not "the people"
 
#10,384
#10,384
Grand Vol said:
That's the million dollar question right there isn't it?

And yes, real change starts at the people. So do revolutions...
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Revolution is such a funny word. It literally means to return back to the original position after a full circle. Lol

I don't want a revolution, I want an evolution of thought of how people view the role of the evil that is government in their lives.
 
#10,386
#10,386
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Revolution is such a funny word. It literally means to return back to the original position after a full circle. Lol

I don't want a revolution, I want an evolution of thought of how people view the role of the evil that is government in their lives.
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Coming back to where we started wouldn't be such a bad thing in all honesty.
 
#10,388
#10,388
Grand Vol said:
Thank you.

Apples and oranges in the case under discussion though. Ras of course thinks they should have pushed for attempted murder in the case of the cop. And cited this one as proof the system isn't "fair" about sentencing.

Not mentioning of course, the mandatory minimum in that jurisdiction is 20 years. And yet this other crime didn't happen in Florida.

However, he will have to serve all the time he got since the judge didn't give any chance of parole or good behavior. But unless he was executed, Ras won't ever be happy. He's the kind of guy that privately cheers whenever a cop gets killed. His hatred runs that deep.
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I could just as easily say that you cheer whenever a cop kills someone over loose cigarettes, rolling their eyes, talking back, flipping a cop the bird, holding a few oz of reefer, being behind on child support, illegal lane changing, not giving a cop their name, driving with dark tinted windows or a busted taillight...
 
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#10,389
#10,389
Grand Vol said:
Disagree. They're is no reason for the standards to be higher for you than me.

Unless, of course, you want the government to have that much sway over your life and career.
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I do think within the context of their job, officers should be held to a higher standard than civilians. Outside of work, absolutely they should be treated like anyone else. On the job, they have a much bigger responsibility to the public. At my job, I often have to talk to rude, nasty people, and believe me, I would love to be rude and nasty right back. But I know that as an employee, I'm held to a higher standard than the individual and would be reprimanded for behaving similarly.

In a conflict between an officer and a civilian, I similarly believe it's the officer's responsibility to de-escelate the situation to the best of his or her ability without resorting to violence and control their emotions far better than the civilian. Isn't that part of their training? It's especially important they they be held to a higher standard on the job as they have a badge, a gun, power over civilians, and a responsibility for the safety of civilians.

You sign up for that job, you know you're putting your life on the line to protect others. I think there are too many LEOs that lack the self control and selflessness that should be necessary for such a responsibility.
 
#10,391
#10,391
Grand Vol said:
The main difference in you and I is you don't trust the system in its entirety. I can point to the cases of abuse and say "yeah, that was wrong of that individual to do." You point to the system and damn the whole thing.
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Dude, you were just in here arguing nuiances and defending the sentence a cop got for shooting up some elderly peoples' home. You were saying well, in this jurisddiction it is so and so and 3.5-10 years is a reasonable sentence. You go out of your way to give the cops a break while telling us to not believe our lying eyes.
 
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#10,392
#10,392
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Sure, if you mean the article of confederation days. And of course minus the horrors of slavery.
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A confederation of States bound by a loose central government worth Rights guaranteed to the People or the States?

What's not to like? Minus the slavery of course.
 
#10,394
#10,394
MercyPercy said:
I do think within the context of their job, officers should be held to a higher standard than civilians. Outside of work, absolutely they should be treated like anyone else. On the job, they have a much bigger responsibility to the public. At my job, I often have to talk to rude, nasty people, and believe me, I would love to be rude and nasty right back. But I know that as an employee, I'm held to a higher standard than the individual and would be reprimanded for behaving similarly.

In a conflict between an officer and a civilian, I similarly believe it's the officer's responsibility to de-escelate the situation to the best of his or her ability without resorting to violence and control their emotions far better than the civilian. Isn't that part of their training? It's especially important they they be held to a higher standard on the job as they have a badge, a gun, power over civilians, and a responsibility for the safety of civilians.

You sign up for that job, you know you're putting your life on the line to protect others. I think there are too many LEOs that lack the self control and selflessness that should be necessary for such a responsibility.
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Good post although I don't agree with it necessarily. In a criminal trial, the individual, regardless of profession, should be on trial. And held to the same standards as anyone else. That in my mind is fair.

See Ras, you could learn to be objective and reasonable like Mercy. Might get you a bit further in the discussions.
 
#10,396
#10,396
Rasputin_Vol said:
Dude, you were just in here arguing nuiances and defending the sentence a cop got for shooting up some elderly peoples' home. You were saying well, in this jurisddiction it is so and so and 3.5-10 years is a reasonable sentence. You go out of your way to give the cops a break while telling us to not believe our lying eyes.
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Can you please point towards the post where I gave anyone a break?

If you want to argue, become educated on the subject. Because you really do make yourself look like an idiot when you post stuff like this.
 
#10,397
#10,397
Grand Vol said:
I never said fix government with government. Not sure where you got that idea from.

Look, before we get into the An-Cap debate (which you love to do lol) I think those officers that exceed their authority should be punished, but not to any higher standard than you or I. I think you would agree for the most part. Now I do agree the system doesn't always work that way. Of which you'll agree as well.

What I can't understand, by a long shot, is when a cop gets sentenced after pleading guilty it still isn't good enough for some of you. As if plea bargains don't happen day in and day out and people get reduced sentences for various crimes.
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Cops should be held to a higher standard because they took an oath to uphold the Constitution. Sorry... just like military members and politicians can lose positions for seemingly minor infractions.

No telling how many citizens this guy terrorized on the city streets with rolling stop citations, 5-10 mph over the limit tix or minor weed possesion charges. So now when he goes out and basically pulls a drive by with his 40 cal, we are supposed to show compassion.

F++k him...
 
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#10,400
#10,400
Rasputin_Vol said:
Cops should be held to a higher standard because they took an oath to uphold the Constitution. Sorry... just like military members and politicians can lose positions for seemingly minor infractions.

No telling how many citizens this guy terrorized on the city streets with rolling stop citations, 5-10 mph over the limit tix or minor weed possesion charges. So now when he goes out and basically pulls a drive by with his 40 cal, we are supposed to show compassion.

F++k him...
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So I return to my original point. Nothing short of putting this officer to death will make you happy.
 
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