The truth behind Joc Bruce

[ntxVOL]

This thread is a perfect example of why a person with 'inside' information should not post that information here.

 

[sjt18]

Please, I'm not the one Winslowesquely - and grotesquely - conflating war and collegiate sports. There is indeed confusion on one end of this conversation.

Many dynamics of human behavior are transcendent between cooperative activities like sports, work, and the military. It is the denial of these things in an attempt to sissify our society that confuses just about everything right now.

I'm not saying it was right for someone to hit Bruce. But I wasn't there and do not know what his part was. The guys whose job it is to determine that and punish the right guy.... seems to have handled it.

 

[HardKnoxVol]

It has little to do with war or soldiers.

I was a young guy once. In the circles I travelled it was not terribly uncommon for one young guy to strike another young guy. It doesn't make it right or wrong.

It's testosterone, the unwritten rules that exist in a culture, and the presence of alpha males and all of those go back to before we were walking upright, if you believe in evolution.

I will also add that's there is a difference between a flare up that results in flying fists, or in this case a singular fist, and systematic bullying. I understand why the former is a necessity but I absolutely find the latter to be abhorrent. If proof exists that Bruce was bullied then kick every offender off the team.

If you'll read from more respected posters, they believe that Bruce stepped on the T (even multiple times) after being told not to. Show some respect to the school where you are getting a free education and the chance of a lifetime to play football for a great team. Kid is a football player and can handle himself. Get over it. There's a reason Bruce is kicked off the team and no one else. I trust the coach's judgment/assessment, not yours

 

[NCFisher]

I said nothing about war. I was talking about soldiers in training, right there at Fort Bragg or Fort Campbell. News flash: soldiers are athletes...athletes who fight instead of play. The analogy between soldier and athlete is far from perfect, and no athlete should ever try to compare himself with a soldier (as Winslow infamously did).

But in this respect, the analogy holds. Bunch of 18-24 year olds with a ton of energy, a hard, physical job to do, first-tier leaders who are not much older than the newest members, and not much time set aside for quiet reflection. That leads to a very different world than you're apparently versed in.

Rather than try to apply your beliefs and values to that world, maybe you ought to go live in it for a while first. Then come back and tell us what you think.

It's not just far from perfect, it's not analagous and foolish to draw parallels. Civilian. Military. A soldier striking a civilian is assault, as is one player striking another. That's why there's a line between military and civil societies, the latter does better when not administered by the former.

 

[govols2008]

Please, I'm not the one Winslowesquely - and grotesquely - conflating war and collegiate sports. There is indeed confusion on one end of this conversation.

If you truly believe what you're saying then you need to stop watching football because you are condoning violence and we can't have that. Do you really believe that this doesn't go on at EVERY program across the nation? This type of thing happens all of the time and it will continue to because football is a physical, testosterone filled sport that has athletes smash into one another.

 

[NCFisher]

Many dynamics of human behavior are transcendent between cooperative activities like sports, work, and the military. It is the denial of these things in an attempt to sissify our society that confuses just about everything right now.

I'm not saying it was right for someone to hit Bruce. But I wasn't there and do not know what his part was. The guys whose job it is to determine that and punish the right guy.... seems to have handled it.

There's nothing 'sissified' about saying you may not strike another person except in physical defense of self or another.

I'm speaking to people who state it's permissible in the case of "disrespect" of traditions, emblems, or whatever.

 

[NCFisher]

If you truly believe what you're saying then you need to stop watching football because you are condoning violence and we can't have that. Do you really believe that this doesn't go on at EVERY program across the nation? This type of thing happens all of the time and it will continue to because football is a physical, testosterone filled sport that has athletes smash into one another.

Players get tossed from the game for striking another player, don't they? They can go full-tilt into each other within the rules. Assault is not condoned, thanks.

 

[FïreBall]

JC probably did more to help this team in that instance than he would being on the field this year.. Even if he has a record breaking year IMO.

A kid that does not respect his school, his team or his team mates is a cancer to the team. If JB did not have a attitude, show respect to Tennessee, or his teammates.. Then he would be on the team and we would not be having this discussion.

He wanted to be bigger than the program it sounds like.

I can guarantee his next stop he will make negative noise as well, Mark it down..

JC has taken a leadership role with others.. I personally applaud it.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

It's not just far from perfect, it's not analagous and foolish to draw parallels.

Again, I invite you to find out for yourself. Don't have to believe me and the other troops and athletes who are telling you the analogy fits. Find out for yourself. Go join the military. Don't have to make a career of it, just a 3 or 4 year hitch will do. Also, if you haven't already, play football or another contact sport for a couple of years, until you've really become part of the culture.

Then come back and tell me you don't see the parallels, the striking similarities in teamwork, and shared suffering, and labor, and tough love, and yes, sometimes, physical differences of opinion.

Until you've walked the walk, you're not gonna be able to talk the talk.

I don't disrespect you, I just recognize that you're blind to this part of the world. I invite you to learn about it yourself, since you don't seem to be willing to learn about it from others.

 

[NCFisher]

It has little to do with war or soldiers.

I was a young guy once. In the circles I travelled it was not terribly uncommon for one young guy to strike another young guy. It doesn't make it right or wrong.

It's testosterone, the unwritten rules that exist in a culture, and the presence of alpha males and all of those go back to before we were walking upright, if you believe in evolution.

I will also add that's there is a difference between a flare up that results in flying fists, or in this case a singular fist, and systematic bullying. I understand why the former is a necessity but I absolutely find the latter to be abhorrent. If proof exists that Bruce was bullied then kick every offender off the team.

Of course, and societies evolve, too. We no longer hang horse thieves, hold people in bondage arbitrarily, or have duels over honor. Or assault people for simply offending us.

 

[sjt18]

There's nothing 'sissified' about saying you may not strike another person except in physical defense of self or another.

I'm speaking to people who state it's permissible in the case of "disrespect" of traditions, emblems, or whatever.

Depending on the circumstances, you could be right but you could also be wrong.

MOST cultures in history and in the world today have some form of physical violence to maintain order.

Traditions, emblems, or whatever... stand for something bigger than themselves. In this case, it stands for showing respect not only for the team, school, and program but for the guys who built the traditions.

Interesting that you take offense at something like this on a forum that discusses a sport predicated on violently hitting other people for the sole purpose of controlling and advancing a ball.

 

[govols2008]

Players get tossed from the game for striking another player, don't they? They can go full-tilt into each other within the rules. Assault is not condoned, thanks.

Answer me this, did you play football in highschool or any level for that matter?

I've seen players hit one another and not be tossed it just depends. That has nothing to do with the environment of football. I coach football for a living, and played the game into my 20s. I can't tell you how many fights I've seen or been a part of in the locker room or on the practice field. Things build up easily this time of year, it's hot as hell and they are working their tails off day after day just trying to make it until the games start and sometimes the emotions boil over.

 

[HardKnoxVol]

Of course, and societies evolve, too. We no longer hang horse thieves, hold people in bondage arbitrarily, or have duels over honor. Or assault people for simply offending us.

No, we treat murderers the best way we can because they had "mental issues." The kid isn't dead. It was apparently a punch to the jaw. People are too sensitive and will yell assault if someone breathes on them. Sick and tired of this wimpy ass generation

 

[ajvol01]

No, we treat murderers the best way we can because they had "mental issues." The kid isn't dead. It was apparently a punch to the jaw. People are too sensitive and will yell assault if someone breathes on them. Sick and tired of this wimpy ass generation

This

 

[volgrad500]

Just when you thought the thread couldn't get any dumber...

 

[TennesseeTopHat]

No, we treat murderers the best way we can because they had "mental issues." The kid isn't dead. It was apparently a punch to the jaw. People are too sensitive and will yell assault if someone breathes on them. Sick and tired of this wimpy ass generation

Do you not believe in mental disorders or something?

 

[sjt18]

FWIW, you cannot optimize the effectiveness of any team without both formal and informal leaders. In football, player leadership by guys not labeled "leader" is absolutely essential.

 

[ajvol01]

Do you not believe in mental disorders or something?

Obvious he meant murderers abuse defense strategy of "mental issues"

 

[NCFisher]

Then come back and tell me you don't see the parallels, the striking similarities in teamwork, and shared suffering, and labor, and tough love,

and there the similarities end. Players are civilians subject to civilian code bringing us back to the illegitimacy of assault.

[/QUOTE] Until you've walked the walk, you're not gonna be able to talk the talk.

I don't disrespect you, I just recognize that you're blind to this part of the world. I invite you to learn about it yourself, since you don't seem to be willing to learn about it from others.[/QUOTE]

In this monochrome world of yours, must a person be a service member to speak of how their son is used or misused by the government's military policy? Or how their tax dollar is spent or misspent within same? Should only criminals sit in judgment of themselves? Or police and military subject to only their own review?

Drop the piety. It's a diversionary tactic that doesn't defend an insular perspective. Collegiate sports are for many young men (and women) the last chance society will have to impress temperance upon them. Your condoning assault will land them in prison once outside the insular walls of team football...or the military.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

Of course, and societies evolve, too. We no longer hang horse thieves, hold people in bondage arbitrarily, or have duels over honor. Or assault people for simply offending us.

You're assuming that is all that happened.

 

[Obsessed]

and there the similarities end. Players are civilians subject to civilian code bringing us back to the illegitimacy of assault.

Until you've walked the walk, you're not gonna be able to talk the talk.

I don't disrespect you, I just recognize that you're blind to this part of the world. I invite you to learn about it yourself, since you don't seem to be willing to learn about it from others.[/QUOTE]

In this monochrome world of yours, must a person be a service member to speak of how their son is used or misused by the government's military policy? Or how their tax dollar is spent or misspent within same? Should only criminals sit in judgment of themselves? Or police and military subject to only their own review?

Drop the piety. It's a diversionary tactic that doesn't defend an insular perspective. Collegiate sports are for many young men (and women) the last chance society will have to impress temperance upon them. Your condoning assault will land them in prison once outside the insular walls of team football...or the military.[/QUOTE]

You are a teacher, aren't you?

 

[sjt18]

Of course, and societies evolve, too. We no longer hang horse thieves, hold people in bondage arbitrarily, or have duels over honor. Or assault people for simply offending us.

Societies do indeed evolve. In fact, they follow a predictable cycle. I guess they "revolve" more than "evolve". The stage at which people whine over pretty much everything coupled with general moral decay and the collapse of the family... usually precedes societal collapse.

 

[Obsessed]

and there the similarities end. Players are civilians subject to civilian code bringing us back to the illegitimacy of assault.

Until you've walked the walk, you're not gonna be able to talk the talk.

I don't disrespect you, I just recognize that you're blind to this part of the world. I invite you to learn about it yourself, since you don't seem to be willing to learn about it from others.[/QUOTE]

In this monochrome world of yours, must a person be a service member to speak of how their son is used or misused by the government's military policy? Or how their tax dollar is spent or misspent within same? Should only criminals sit in judgment of themselves? Or police and military subject to only their own review?

Drop the piety. It's a diversionary tactic that doesn't defend an insular perspective. Collegiate sports are for many young men (and women) the last chance society will have to impress temperance upon them. Your condoning assault will land them in prison once outside the insular walls of team football...or the military.[/QUOTE]

....

 

[chargervol]

I have no idea what happened. But only one person was suspended and only one got his walking papers. I trust that Coach Jones, who has all the pertinent information, made the right decision here.

I read the rest of the thread, but honestly, it could have ended with this post.

 

[sjt18]

Your condoning assault will land them in prison once outside the insular walls of team football...or the military.

Do you believe that spanking makes kids violent?