The Minimum Wage: What's the Big Deal?

#151
#151
FLVOL_79 said:
Minimum wage has not kept up with inflation. That needs to be addressed first and foremost. From there I feel that an employer has the discretion to set their wages accordingly while staying within the requirements of the law.

Secondly people need to realize that no matter how much minimum wage is poor people are going to stay poor. Look at the world we live in right now. A guy can sign a 60 million dollar football contract then not have $500 to his name a few years later.

Dumbs gonna dumb
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It's a whopping $.17/hour under inflation as I just posted ahead of you.
 
#152
#152
FLVOL_79 said:
Minimum wage has not kept up with inflation. That needs to be addressed first and foremost. From there I feel that an employer has the discretion to set their wages accordingly while staying within the requirements of the law.

Secondly people need to realize that no matter how much minimum wage is poor people are going to stay poor. Look at the world we live in right now. A guy can sign a 60 million dollar football contract then not have $500 to his name a few years later.

Dumbs gonna dumb
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And that's really all I'm saying.

As for the rest of your post you're correct. There definitely is a level of personal responsibility on the individual as to how they manage what they earn. That's on them 100%.
 
#155
#155
Brave Volunteer said:
LOL why? Because someone who works a menial labor job doesn't deserve to earn enough to eat and have a place to sleep? Again, look at the increase in cost of living VS the minimum wage increase over the decades. It's hardly increased at the same rate. I'm simply suggesting that the rate of minimum wage needs to reflect the rate of the cost of living. As the cost of living has gone up, the rate of minimum wage has largely remained stagnant.
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Define please? Cost of living for whom? Teenager living at home going to school or a man with 4 kids?
 
#156
#156
Brave Volunteer said:
And that's really all I'm saying.

As for the rest of your post you're correct. There definitely is a level of personal responsibility on the individual as to how they manage what they earn. That's on them 100%.
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you are saying much more though including accusing people who are against a "reasonable" wage as hating the poor.

Also do you consider an inflation adjusted MW to be the same thing as "reasonable"?
 
#157
#157
The problem with the people working minimum wage is their life style, not their wage. they live like they make $10 an hour, or more. living wage should be crappy apt/house crappy car, utilities and other essentials. not the cell phone, iPad, 50" TV, internet, cable, welfare, nice car, nice apt that these people want. if they want more they need to look beyond minimum wage, not raise minimum wage. minimum wage should never be enough for a single parent to put their kids through college.
 
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#159
#159
volinbham said:
Minimum wage has definitely been lagging and I don't have a problem with a small increase but your second point is the big one - it doesn't make a big difference and is not free from negative consequences.
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People assume anyone who owns a business is Daddy Warbucks sitting on piles of cash, and that is usually never the case. A forced increase of the $15 magnitude could hurt more businesses and people than it helps.
 
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#160
#160
LouderVol said:
The problem with the people working minimum wage is their life style, not their wage. they live like they make $10 an hour, or more. living wage should be crappy apt/house crappy car, utilities and other essentials. not the cell phone, iPad, 50" TV, internet, cable, welfare, nice car, nice apt that these people want. if they want more they need to look beyond minimum wage, not raise minimum wage. minimum wage should never be enough for a single parent to put their kids through college.
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Just have more kids......problem solved
 
#163
#163
LouderVol said:
The problem with the people working minimum wage is their life style, not their wage. they live like they make $10 an hour, or more. living wage should be crappy apt/house crappy car, utilities and other essentials. not the cell phone, iPad, 50" TV, internet, cable, welfare, nice car, nice apt that these people want. if they want more they need to look beyond minimum wage, not raise minimum wage. minimum wage should never be enough for a single parent to put their kids through college.
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Agree. To hit Federal Poverty Level for a single parent with 2 kids the MW would have to be 10 bucks/hour

Does anyone think someone at the poverty level could afford what you suggest?
 
#164
#164
volinbham said:
Probably depends on your starting point for analysis. Other start dates show a bigger deficit with inflation but none suggest it should be 15 or even 12 bucks/hour
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It uses the nationwide CPI that the BLS tracks every year.

This is why the conversation of a national minimum wage will not ever, nor should it, happen.

You can't force Manhattan Kansas to match Manhattan NYC's cost-of-living dictated minimum wages.

Each state should evaluate it's average COL and adjust (as they have) and municipalities should further adjust (as they have).
 
#166
#166
LouderVol said:
The problem with the people working minimum wage is their life style, not their wage. they live like they make $10 an hour, or more. living wage should be crappy apt/house crappy car, utilities and other essentials. not the cell phone, iPad, 50" TV, internet, cable, welfare, nice car, nice apt that these people want. if they want more they need to look beyond minimum wage, not raise minimum wage. minimum wage should never be enough for a single parent to put their kids through college.
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We should have liberal millionaires and what not create "living wage societies". I see cheap 100 sq foot housing with communal lavatories and common areas filled with books, board games, and the best over the air HD you can get on a sweet 55". Toss in a nice little park and maybe a retention pond and call it a day! I am almost 99.9% positive that it will be a huge hit, crime free, and be well maintained.
 
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#168
#168
agent|orange said:
It uses the nationwide CPI that the BLS tracks every year.

This is why the conversation of a national minimum wage will not ever, nor should it, happen.

You can't force Manhattan Kansas to match Manhattan NYC's cost-of-living dictated minimum wages.

Each state should evaluate it's average COL and adjust (as they have) and municipalities should further adjust (as they have).
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What I was saying is that if you start from a different year than 1991 your results for what current should be (inflation adjusted) would be different. This occurs since the MW is not raised every year and inflation rates fluctuate.

For example if you looked at the MW last year vs this year it would be even last year and behind this year.

I agree about the national nature of the calculation.
 
#170
#170
For those advocating a "living wage" (whatever that means) are you willing to reduce Federal direct transfer payments since the person now fully supports themselves?

If so, let's dump the corporate tax rate commensurate with the increase in MW, limit welfare type benefits to only those below the "living wage" and see what happens
 
#171
#171
volprof said:
This forum is not what any rational person or even I (as an unrational person) would describe as exactly pro-poor, uneducated people (although we have a lot of uneducated people posting on here), but something that has always caused me to pause is the absolute disdain some Americans have for the minimum wage.

I want to get VolNation's assessment of the minimum wage. I want to understand why it may or may not be a good idea.
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I am pro-poor and I studied economics, which is why I don't support minimum wage laws.

The intent of minimum wage laws is admirable, but the problem is it creates unintended consequences. These happen whenever government interferes with natural market forces.

All economists will agree that minimum wage laws help people that keep their jobs, but that it creates some level of unemployment (employers make due with less labor because it becomes too expensive). The question is, does the benefit to the people with jobs outweigh the cost to people who lost their jobs?

Many economists have convincingly demonstrated that young black males are disproportionately hit with unemployment when minimum wage goes up.

In terms of result, I am opposed to minimum wage laws.

As a matter of ethics, I am opposed to minimum wage laws because it restricts freedom to choose.
 
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#172
#172
volinbham said:
The bold is the big fallacy. Proponents of more free market mechanisms are NOT basing their view in what you suggest. They are doing so (most at least) precisely because they believe IT DOES THE MOST GOOD FOR ALL.

Until you drop the "they hate poor people" crap you'll never be open-minded to finding the best way to help all.

Drives me nuts
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The CEO of Wal-Mart makes 35 million a year. He makes more in an hour than his employees will earn in an entire year. Please explain to me how the "free market" works in this regard? As far as I'm concerned, NOBODY "earns" 35 million per year! Nobody! All the while Wal Mart encourages their employees to seek government subsidies for health care because they don't want to provide it.
 
#173
#173
Brave Volunteer said:
The CEO of Wal-Mart makes 35 million a year. He makes more in an hour than his employees will earn in an entire year. Please explain to me how the "free market" works in this regard? As far as I'm concerned, NOBODY "earns" 35 million per year! Nobody! All the while Wal Mart encourages their employees to seek government subsidies for health care because they don't want to provide it.
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I suspect the ceo is paid fair market wage. No minimums needed.
 
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#174
#174
#175
#175
Brave Volunteer said:
The CEO of Wal-Mart makes 35 million a year. He makes more in an hour than his employees will earn in an entire year. Please explain to me how the "free market" works in this regard? As far as I'm concerned, NOBODY "earns" 35 million per year! Nobody! All the while Wal Mart encourages their employees to seek government subsidies for health care because they don't want to provide it for their employees.
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How do you think he got the job? When you own your own company, feel free to pay your executives whatever you want, they certainly feel that he earns it.

Dont put the blame on Wal Mart for cutting back health insurance for their part timers and raising premiums on their full time.....you can blame captain teleprompter and his brilliant plan of socialized healthcare for that.
 
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