The Minimum Wage: What's the Big Deal?

#128
#128
orangeluvr said:
Job creation per year in office as president.

rep. bush sr. 625k

DEM Clinton 2.9M

rep bush jr 375k

DEM Obama 2.4M

Proof positive "trickle down" economics has never or ever will work. America works best when we work together. :question:
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I'm interested to know, did you get these statistics from a website that ended in .gov?
 
#129
#129
Obsessed said:
Exactly. We can pay every one 100 bucks an hour, but the price of bread goes up too.

The additional costs are passed along.
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Yes but wouldn't you agree that the cost of living has far exceeded the rate at which minimum wage has increased over the decades? No one is saying pay someone 100 per hour to work at McDonalds, but at the same time it needs to be a reasonable wage that someone can earn and live (or even survive) on. Otherwise, no wonder it's worth more to someone to stay on welfare than it is to work for a living.
 
#130
#130
Brave Volunteer said:
Yes but wouldn't you agree that the cost of living has far exceeded the rate at which minimum wage has increased over the decades? No one is saying pay someone 100 per hour to work at McDonalds, but at the same time it needs to be a reasonable wage that someone can earn and live (or even survive) on. Otherwise, no wonder it's worth more to someone to stay on welfare than it is to work for a living.
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Seems like a bigger problem is the welfare program.
 
#131
#131
Brave Volunteer said:
Yes but wouldn't you agree that the cost of living has far exceeded the rate at which minimum wage has increased over the decades? No one is saying pay someone 100 per hour to work at McDonalds, but at the same time it needs to be a reasonable wage that someone can earn and live (or even survive) on. Otherwise, no wonder it's worth more to someone to stay on welfare than it is to work for a living.
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no, it doesn't
 
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#132
#132
Brave Volunteer said:
Yes but wouldn't you agree that the cost of living has far exceeded the rate at which minimum wage has increased over the decades? No one is saying pay someone 100 per hour to work at McDonalds, but at the same time it needs to be a reasonable wage that someone can earn and live (or even survive) on. Otherwise, no wonder it's worth more to someone to stay on welfare than it is to work for a living.
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It is now for those that should be earning the minimum.
 
#133
#133
My thoughts:

- National minimum wage is a horrible idea and should never be fielded. $14/hour in Manhattan, NYC is not the same as $14/hour in Manhattan, Kansas. This would destroy economies in lower COL areas.

- I don't really care about R or D. So long as manufacturing jobs are brought back to the US, I'm happy. I have enormous issues with many things Obama has done but he has overseen (but is not the direct cause of) a reverse course in major domestic and international industries bringing manufacturing jobs to the US.

And, finally, off-topic but I've said it 1,000 times. The US must seize a huge market in manufacturing renewable energy generation products. We cannot allow China to dominate this market.
 
#134
#134
Brave Volunteer said:
Yes but wouldn't you agree that the cost of living has far exceeded the rate at which minimum wage has increased over the decades? No one is saying pay someone 100 per hour to work at McDonalds, but at the same time it needs to be a reasonable wage that someone can earn and live (or even survive) on. Otherwise, no wonder it's worth more to someone to stay on welfare than it is to work for a living.
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Who determines "reasonable wage"?

Who determines minimum quality-of-life?

What zip code is this based in? Are you pitching for a national minimum wage? State level? Municipal?
 
#136
#136
MG1968 said:
no, it doesn't
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LOL why? Because someone who works a menial labor job doesn't deserve to earn enough to eat and have a place to sleep? Again, look at the increase in cost of living VS the minimum wage increase over the decades. It's hardly increased at the same rate. I'm simply suggesting that the rate of minimum wage needs to reflect the rate of the cost of living. As the cost of living has gone up, the rate of minimum wage has largely remained stagnant.
 
#137
#137
Brave Volunteer said:
LOL why? Because someone who works a menial labor job doesn't deserve to earn enough to eat and have a place to sleep? Again, look at the increase in cost of living VS the minimum wage increase over the decades. It's hardly increased at the same rate. I'm simply suggesting that the rate of minimum wage needs to reflect the rate of the cost of living. As the cost of living has gone up, the rate of minimum wage has largely remained stagnant.
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And what will happen to the cost of living if the minimum wage is increased in the way you are wanting to see it raised?
 
#138
#138
Brave Volunteer said:
Yes but wouldn't you agree that the cost of living has far exceeded the rate at which minimum wage has increased over the decades? No one is saying pay someone 100 per hour to work at McDonalds, but at the same time it needs to be a reasonable wage that someone can earn and live (or even survive) on. Otherwise, no wonder it's worth more to someone to stay on welfare than it is to work for a living.
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what is "reasonable" and how did you arrive at that #?
 
#139
#139
Brave Volunteer said:
LOL why? Because someone who works a menial labor job doesn't deserve to earn enough to eat and have a place to sleep? Again, look at the increase in cost of living VS the minimum wage increase over the decades. It's hardly increased at the same rate. I'm simply suggesting that the rate of minimum wage needs to reflect the rate of the cost of living. As the cost of living has gone up, the rate of minimum wage has largely remained stagnant.
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You realize that less than 5% of people working, actually work for the minimum wage (not counting people who work on tips). Of that 5%, 50.4% are ages 16 to 24; 24% are teenagers (ages 16 to 19), (77%) white; nearly half are white women. Largely part-time workers (64% of the total).
 
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#142
#142
MG1968 said:
And what will happen to the cost of living if the minimum wage is increased in the way you are wanting to see it raised?
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Yes, it will definitely have a trickle down effect on everyone's way of life. However at SOME point people are going to have drop the "I don't give a **** about everyone else as long as I have mine" mentality and start having a broader sense of communal responsibility for the good of the country as a whole. The richest 1% own 40% of the nations wealth. and the next 19% own something like just over 50% of the nation's wealth. By contrast the nation's bottom 80% own 15% of the nation's wealth. There's only a finite amount of wealth folks. We will not be able to sustain that kind of ratio if we are going to survive as a country. At some point the "haves" are going to have to hurt a little.
 
#143
#143
Brave Volunteer said:
Yes, it will definitely have a trickle down effect on everyone's way of life. However at SOME point people are going to have drop the "I don't give a **** about everyone else as long as I have mine" mentality and start having a broader sense of communal responsibility for the good of the country as a whole. The richest 1% own 40% of the nations wealth. and the next 19% own something like just over 50% of the nation's wealth. By contrast the nation's bottom 80% own 15% of the nation's wealth. There's only a finite amount of wealth folks. We will not be able to sustain that kind of ratio if we are going to survive as a country. At some point the "haves" are going to have to hurt a little.
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That is absolute crap.
 
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#144
#144
Federal poverty level for a single person is $11,770 annually. Assuming a full time work week and 50 weeks/year working that equates to $5.89/hour. Anything above that constitutes earning more than the poverty level. (just for reference).

The current minimum wage puts an earner at 123% of the poverty level.

So for those advocating raising it, what is your metric.
 
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#146
#146
Brave Volunteer said:
LOL why? Because someone who works a menial labor job doesn't deserve to earn enough to eat and have a place to sleep? Again, look at the increase in cost of living VS the minimum wage increase over the decades. It's hardly increased at the same rate. I'm simply suggesting that the rate of minimum wage needs to reflect the rate of the cost of living. As the cost of living has gone up, the rate of minimum wage has largely remained stagnant.
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I looked up the minimum wage in 1991. It was $4.25/hour.

Then I plugged that into the BLS inflation calculator. $4.25 in 1991 is equal to $7.42 now. National minimum wage is $7.25 with most states having that higher based on local Costs of Living with many municipalities going further.

The problem isn't built into the "cost of living" it's the standards of living and expectations have gone up. There weren't iPhones, PS4s, 60" TVs and other amenities that people not only see as luxuries anymore but basic necessities.

Lets get some more figures, shall we?

$1 in 1991 equals $1.75 in 2015 as per the Consumer Price Index calculator that the BLS provides.

How about the price of Milk per gallon? IN 1991, it was $.99 on the national average. In May of 2015, it was $3.30. That has risen by 50%, okay, that shows cost of living of a non-essential but still a staple part of most people's diets.

In 1991 you could buy 3 cans of Campbell's tomato soup for .99 also. In modern prices you can buy a 12 pack for $9.99 or roughly $2.25 for 3 cans. That's a raise of $.50 per can.

In 1991, a pound of sliced ham costs $1.99/lb. In 2015, the national average is $2.13/lb. That's cheaper now than 1991 based on inflation.

Anyway, it goes on and on and on. Living is more expensive for everyone but when you adjust everything based on CPI and inflation, the picture looks more clear.

Minimum wages go up? So will cost-of-living. It's really that simple.
 
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#147
#147
Minimum wage has not kept up with inflation. That needs to be addressed first and foremost. From there I feel that an employer has the discretion to set their wages accordingly while staying within the requirements of the law.

Secondly people need to realize that no matter how much minimum wage is poor people are going to stay poor. Look at the world we live in right now. A guy can sign a 60 million dollar football contract then not have $500 to his name a few years later.

Dumbs gonna dumb
 
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#148
#148
Brave Volunteer said:
Yes, it will definitely have a trickle down effect on everyone's way of life. However at SOME point people are going to have drop the "I don't give a **** about everyone else as long as I have mine" mentality and start having a broader sense of communal responsibility for the good of the country as a whole. The richest 1% own 40% of the nations wealth. and the next 19% own something like just over 50% of the nation's wealth. By contrast the nation's bottom 80% own 15% of the nation's wealth. There's only a finite amount of wealth folks. We will not be able to sustain that kind of ratio if we are going to survive as a country. At some point the "haves" are going to have to hurt a little.
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The bold is the big fallacy. Proponents of more free market mechanisms are NOT basing their view in what you suggest. They are doing so (most at least) precisely because they believe IT DOES THE MOST GOOD FOR ALL.

Until you drop the "they hate poor people" crap you'll never be open-minded to finding the best way to help all.

Drives me nuts
 
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#149
#149
Brave Volunteer said:
Yes, it will definitely have a trickle down effect on everyone's way of life. However at SOME point people are going to have drop the "I don't give a **** about everyone else as long as I have mine" mentality and start having a broader sense of communal responsibility for the good of the country as a whole. The richest 1% own 40% of the nations wealth. and the next 19% own something like just over 50% of the nation's wealth. By contrast the nation's bottom 80% own 15% of the nation's wealth. There's only a finite amount of wealth folks. We will not be able to sustain that kind of ratio if we are going to survive as a country. At some point the "haves" are going to have to hurt a little.
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The fact that I am taxed to **** doesnt hurt a bit I guess. As long as fatty mcbackfat can sit on their ass all day, I am glad to do my communal responsibility and foot the bill.
 
#150
#150
FLVOL_79 said:
Minimum wage has not kept up with inflation. That needs to be addressed first and foremost. From there I feel that an employer has the discretion to set their wages accordingly while staying within the requirements of the law.

Secondly people need to realize that no matter how much minimum wage is poor people are going to stay poor. Look at the world we live in right now. A guy can sign a 60 million dollar football contract then not have $500 to his name a few years later.

Dumbs gonna dumb
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Minimum wage has definitely been lagging and I don't have a problem with a small increase but your second point is the big one - it doesn't make a big difference and is not free from negative consequences.
 
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