To Protect and to Serve...

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#8,427
#8,427
volbeast33 said:
I'm completely ok with tobacco,drugs, and alcohol being illegal. It's just my opinion that the % of alcohol users causing harm is much less than drug users from my friends I have observed and working in a medical field.
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Sadly, your personal experience does not corroborate with the evidence I've presented regarding alcohol abuse, and your assumption about other drugs(many that are LESS addictive than alcohol) is simply conjecture. You are certainly allowed your opinion, but you should not be enforcing that opinion on others unless you have something of substance to support it.
 
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#8,429
#8,429
MercyPercy said:
Sadly, your personal experience does not corroborate with the evidence I've presented regarding alcohol abuse, and your assumption about other drugs(many that are LESS addictive than alcohol) is simply conjecture. You are certainly allowed your opinion, but you should not be enforcing that opinion on others unless you have something of substance to support it.
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It's a message board....how am I enforcing my opinion on anyone....i don't believe your opinion and You don't believe mine....that's the way it usually goes....it would be better evidence to show the percentage of alcohol users per the damage it causes versus the percentage of drug users versus the damage drugs cause. Taking marijuana out of the mix bc most of us agree on that drug.
 
#8,432
#8,432
volbeast33 said:
It's a message board....how am I enforcing my opinion on anyone....i don't believe your opinion and You don't believe mine....that's the way it usually goes....it would be better evidence to show the percentage of alcohol users per the damage it causes versus the percentage of drug users versus the damage drugs cause. Taking marijuana out of the mix bc most of us agree on that drug.
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By supporting the criminalization of a substance, you are telling someone what they can or can't put in their own body without threat of imprisonment. You personally aren't doing the imprisoning, obviously.
 
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#8,434
#8,434
MercyPercy said:
By supporting the criminalization of a substance, you are telling someone what they can or can't put in their own body without threat of imprisonment. You personally aren't doing the imprisoning, obviously.
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I 100% support the criminalization of such substances....it may not seem better for the individual but it's better for society as a whole.
 
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#8,436
#8,436
volbeast33 said:
It was a joke....lighten up mercy
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not-funny.gif
 
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#8,437
#8,437
volbeast33 said:
I 100% support the criminalization of such substances....it may not seem better for the individual but it's better for society as a whole.
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So you support the criminalization of alcohol and tobacco, right? Because that would also be better for society as whole. You are not consistent unless you would vote to make those things illegal, just like you'd vote to keep the other drugs illegal.

And all of this is assuming that making a drug illegal will stop people from using it(and thus, society is saved!). But wait a second, didn't we try prohibition before? How'd that turn out? Something about gangs and criminal organizations and murder.. Oh, almost exactly what is going on right now with the war on drugs. Imagine that. History repeats itself. Banning a substance isn't stopping people from using or abusing, but it is allowing for a black market of violent criminal organizations to prosper. So, if we're going to be pragmatic, are the consequences of legalizing and regulating these substances(like alcohol) greater than the consequences we've been facing from the failed war on drugs all this time? Think about it.

Or is that asking too much?
 
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#8,438
#8,438
MercyPercy said:
So you support the criminalization of alcohol and tobacco, right? Because that would also be better for society as whole. You are not consistent unless you would vote to make those things illegal, just like you'd vote to keep the other drugs illegal.

And all of this is assuming that making a drug illegal will stop people from using it(and thus, society is saved!). But wait a second, didn't we try prohibition before? How'd that turn out? Something about gangs and criminal organizations and murder.. Oh, almsot exactly what is going on right now with the war on drugs. Imagine that. History repeats itself.
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Spot on.
 
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#8,439
#8,439
MercyPercy said:
I'm sorry you have bad personal experiences with your family. I have to reiterate, though, that we should not make public policy based on anecdotal evidence.

What drugs, BTW?
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Your pushing the limits on this. The personal experience in my family is similar through almost all situations. The majority of people who drink alcohol do so casually or are responsible. Show me a responsible/casual meth usser? You can't.

The drugs escalated on both mine and my wife's side of the family. My cousin was addicted to pain pills of some sort. Not sure the kind. He got so bad that he stole from my dad and my grandmother. He's currently serving his third sentence in jail since he graduated high school. I feel nothing for him... He's a piece of **** that deserves nothing from society. On my wife's side.. Her brother got really bad into pain pills after her dad's accident. He escalated on up to injecting himself with something. Family stepped in. He's now been sober for almost 7 months and recently got married. Very proud of him, but he knows what happens if he relapses.
 
#8,440
#8,440
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Sorry bro, it doesn't work that way. If you support the laws. You're part of the problem.
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It absolutely can work this way. The problem is the people who continue to push the boundaries on the law. That only creates more strict laws. Which helps no one. Follow the laws we have.... And you big bag man and 5-0 will leave you alone. It's a simple damn rule that far too many people have an issue with.
 
#8,441
#8,441
TNsnyper20 said:
Your pushing the limits on this. The personal experience in my family is similar through almost all situations. The majority of people who drink alcohol do so casually or are responsible. Show me a responsible/casual meth usser? You can't.

The drugs escalated on both mine and my wife's side of the family. My cousin was addicted to pain pills of some sort. Not sure the kind. He got so bad that he stole from my dad and my grandmother. He's currently serving his third sentence in jail since he graduated high school. I feel nothing for him... He's a piece of **** that deserves nothing from society. On my wife's side.. Her brother got really bad into pain pills after her dad's accident. He escalated on up to injecting himself with something. Family stepped in. He's now been sober for almost 7 months and recently got married. Very proud of him, but he knows what happens if he relapses.
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I've known several people who were casual meth users. Of course, they used it back when it actually was methamphetamine and not the weak poison we have now. it was sort of viewed as souped up speed, and at one time wasn't even considered addictive.
 
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#8,442
#8,442
TNsnyper20 said:
It absolutely can work this way. The problem is the people who continue to push the boundaries on the law. That only creates more strict laws. Which helps no one. Follow the laws we have.... And you big bag man and 5-0 will leave you alone. It's a simple damn rule that far too many people have an issue with.
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Yeah, because a lot of people have a problem with some politician deciding what we can and cannot ingest. It's asinine.
 
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#8,444
#8,444
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Yeah, because a lot of people have a problem with some politician deciding what we can and cannot ingest. It's asinine.
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You keep saying a lot of people. The overwhelming majority of Americans think this or a minority? My guess is a minority disagree that no substances should be illegal.
 
#8,445
#8,445
TNsnyper20 said:
Your pushing the limits on this. The personal experience in my family is similar through almost all situations.
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Evidence?

The majority of people who drink alcohol do so casually or are responsible.
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Sure, the majority do. However it's not like it's only 1% of drinkers who have a problem. According to the statistics I've posted(which I guess you didn't read), over a quarter of all drinkers would classify as abusers(binge drinking/heavy drinking). That's still a lot, isn't it? Don't you think that number is large enough to be a problem?

Or, if you stick with that line of thought, technically you'd be okay with meth if only 25% of people became consistent abusers. Is this correct?

Show me a responsible/casual meth usser? You can't.
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I don't personally know any meth users well enough to make that call. Do you?

I do however know someone who recently passed the bar, and he's been hired and recently moved out of town for his new position at a firm. He's, by all accounts, responsible and successful.

He also smokes crack once in a while. Not a lot, but he does it. So there you go, some anecdotal evidence to counter yours. See why using anecdotal evidence isn't a preferable method in a debate?

The drugs escalated on both mine and my wife's side of the family. My cousin was addicted to pain pills of some sort. Not sure the kind. He got so bad that he stole from my dad and my grandmother. He's currently serving his third sentence in jail since he graduated high school. I feel nothing for him... He's a piece of **** that deserves nothing from society. On my wife's side.. Her brother got really bad into pain pills after her dad's accident. He escalated on up to injecting himself with something. Family stepped in. He's now been sober for almost 7 months and recently got married. Very proud of him, but he knows what happens if he relapses.
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So the problems in your family have come from legal drugs, not even illegal ones.
 
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#8,446
#8,446
As Mercy has so wonderfully pointed out, these drugs being illegal simply strengthens the cartels. It isn't hard to figure this out, this country has been fighting the war on drugs since the early 70's and have made 0 difference.
It's past time to legalize and hell, regulate it if you want. Just stop the violence and the destruction of people's lives over a vice they have. Stop the killing.
 
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#8,447
#8,447
TNsnyper20 said:
It absolutely can work this way. The problem is the people who continue to push the boundaries on the law. That only creates more strict laws. Which helps no one. Follow the laws we have.... And you big bag man and 5-0 will leave you alone. It's a simple damn rule that far too many people have an issue with.
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"Do what your master says and he won't beat you! What about that is so hard to understand?"
 
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#8,449
#8,449
MercyPercy said:
So the problems in your family have come from legal drugs, not even illegal ones.
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They both started from legal drugs they got illegally. My cousin from his piece of **** dad and my brother in law from his piece of **** friend. Both escalated to illegal drugs. My cousin eventually got into meth. That's what caused him to steal from family so he could feed his addiction. I can't remember what my brother stated doing towards the end to be honest. I do know he was hanging around a guy who was doing/selling meth. So both reached their peak during illegal drug use.
 
#8,450
#8,450
TNsnyper20 said:
They both started from legal drugs they got illegally. My cousin from his piece of **** dad and my brother in law from his piece of **** friend. Both escalated to illegal drugs. My cousin eventually got into meth. That's what caused him to steal from family so he could feed his addiction. I can't remember what my brother stated doing towards the end to be honest. I do know he was hanging around a guy who was doing/selling meth. So both reached their peak during illegal drug use.
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Drugs don't turn you into a thief. Weak character turns you into a thief.
 
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