To Protect and to Serve...

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#8,401
#8,401
TNsnyper20 said:
When did I ever say we needed a war on drugs? Or supported a war on drugs?

I simple like the laws. Enforce them when someone is caught. But we don't need to dump millions into a program to maybe remove the streets of one or two dealers.

Also. Legalize Mary, tax it like you do alcohol and you've made up for all the lost funds in the "war on drugs".
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Sorry bro, it doesn't work that way. If you support the laws. You're part of the problem.
 
#8,402
#8,402
TNsnyper20 said:
The substances that are illegal are that way because the use of said substances does harm to the person or leads to harm being done to other persons not consuming them.
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If you're going to allow this logic to be used for other drugs, you'd have to also feel the same way about alcohol or you're a hypocrite. You don't even have a legitimate argument to try and say alcohol is potentially less harmful than most drugs that are illegal, all studies point to it being near the top of the danger scale along with other fan favorites like heroin, meth and crack.

It's more of a case of people hating something they don't understand(very common mindset in this country), and believing their vice of choice(alcohol) is somehow more noble than someone who prefers a different drug.
 
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#8,403
#8,403
MercyPercy said:
If you're going to allow this logic to be used for other drugs, you'd have to also feel the same way about alcohol or you're a hypocrite. You don't even have a legitimate argument to try and say alcohol is potentially less harmful than most drugs that are illegal, all studies point to it being near the top of the danger scale along with other fan favorites like heroin, meth and crack.

It's more of a case of people hating something they don't understand(very common mindset in this country), and believing their vice of choice(alcohol) is somehow more noble than someone who prefers a different drug.
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That's not even close to true
 
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#8,406
#8,406
volbeast33 said:
I work in a medical profession and there is a huge difference between alcohol and using heavier drugs or even some minor ones like pain pills.
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I'm sorry, your anecdotal evidence is worthless. I encourage you to provide some sort of medical research that corroborates your personal opinion.

The fact that you call pain pills(one of the most addictive and harmful things people can get in to) as minor proves to me you honestly are clueless, and your indoctrination is strong.
 
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#8,407
#8,407
MercyPercy said:
I'm sorry, your anecdotal evidence is worthless. I encourage you to provide some sort of medical research that corroborates your personal opinion.

The fact that you call pain pills(one of the most addictive and harmful things people can get in to) as minor proves to me you honestly are clueless, and your indoctrination is strong.
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He was accurate.
 
#8,408
#8,408
volbeast33 said:
I work in a medical profession and there is a huge difference between alcohol and using heavier drugs or even some minor ones like pain pills.
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The reality is, you drink alcohol and you don't ever want to be compared to someone who uses other drugs, because that would make you a "drug user" just like them. Oh noes!
 
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#8,411
#8,411
MercyPercy said:
I'm sorry, your anecdotal evidence is worthless. I encourage you to provide some sort of medical research that corroborates your personal opinion.

The fact that you call pain pills(one of the most addictive and harmful things people can get in to) as minor proves to me you honestly are clueless, and your indoctrination is strong.
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I labelled it as minor bc I feel that's what most perceive it as....we have about 90 people in our building 6 with drug related trauma and one recently sent out due to pain pills. There is Zero with alcohol related trauma.....I don't give a sh$t if you believe me or not.
 
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#8,412
#8,412
volbeast33 said:
I labelled it as minor bc I feel that's what most perceive it as....we have about 90 people in our building 6 with drug related trauma and one recently sent out due to pain pills. There is Zero with alcohol related trauma.....I don't give a sh$t if you believe me or not.
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This is fantastic logic! "There aren't any alcoholics getting their stomachs pumped at my facility right now, this must indicate something, because it's such a great sample size!"

Or, we could just go ahead and skip all the bull**** and look at the statistics:

Alcohol Facts and Statistics | National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA)

Alcohol-Related Deaths:

Nearly 88,0009 people (approximately 62,000 men and 26,000 women) die from alcohol-related causes annually, making it the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States.

In 2013, alcohol-impaired driving fatalities accounted for 10,076 deaths (30.8 percent of overall driving fatalities).

Economic Burden:

In 2006, alcohol misuse problems cost the United States $223.5 billion.

Almost three-quarters of the total cost of alcohol misuse is related to binge drinking.

Alcohol and the Human Body:

In 2013, of the 71,713 total liver disease deaths among individuals aged 12 and older, 46.4 percent involved alcohol. Among males, 48.9 percent of the 46,240 liver disease deaths involved alcohol. Among females, 42.7 percent of the 25,433 liver disease deaths involved alcohol.

Among all cirrhosis deaths in 2011, 48.0 percent were alcohol related. The proportion of alcohol-related cirrhosis was highest (72.7 percent) among decedents ages 25–34, followed by decedents aged 35–44, at 70.3 percent.

In 2009, alcohol-related liver disease was the primary cause of almost 1 in 3 liver transplants in the United States.

Drinking alcohol increases the risk of cancers of the mouth, esophagus, pharynx, larynx, liver, and breast.
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So, if you're ever, ever going to attempt to argue that we should ban substances because they are potentially harmful to the user and to others, take a long look in the mirror before you take a sip of your Mai Tai and get off your high horse. This isn't an argument you could ever hope to successfully have.
 
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#8,415
#8,415
MercyPercy said:
This is fantastic logic! "There aren't any alcoholics getting their stomachs pumped at my facility right now, this must indicate something, because it's such a great sample size!"

Or, we could just go ahead and skip all the bull**** and look at the statistics:

Alcohol Facts and Statistics | National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA)




So, if you're ever, ever going to attempt to argue that we should ban substances because they are potentially harmful to the user and to others, take a long look in the mirror before you take a sip of your Mai Tai and get off your high horse. This isn't an argument you could ever hope to successfully have.
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I am 100% against drunk driving and wish there would be much harsher punishments for those that choose to do so. They are not getting their stomachs pumped....most are in w/c's or on ventilators.
 
#8,417
#8,417
volbeast33 said:
I am 100% against drunk driving and wish there would be much harsher punishments for those that choose to do so. They are not getting their stomachs pumped....most are in w/c's or on ventilators.
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You completely avoided the point: That alcohol is causing massive amounts of harm to users and non-users(through injury and financial burden). If you're going to be consistent in your beliefs, you should be against alcohol. But I guess consistency is a little too much to ask.
 
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#8,418
#8,418
MercyPercy said:
You completely avoided the point: That alcohol is causing massive amounts of harm to users and non-users(through injury and financial burden). If you're going to be consistent in your beliefs, you should be against alcohol. But I guess consistency is a little too much to ask.
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I answered on the post above this one.
 
#8,419
#8,419
volbeast33 said:
Nope be you can never regulate the stupid out of people....
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Isn't this an argument for making other drugs legal? You're not helping your case.

I feel the overwhelming majority drink responsibly but it's the idiots that cost us..
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Alcohol Use in the United States:
Prevalence of Drinking: In 2013, 86.8 percent of people ages 18 or older reported that they drank alcohol at some point in their lifetime; 70.7 percent reported that they drank in the past year; 56.4 percent reported that they drank in the past month.1

Prevalence of Binge Drinking and Heavy Drinking: In 2013, 24.6 percent of people ages 18 or older reported that they engaged in binge drinking in the past month; 6.8 percent reported that they engaged in heavy drinking in the past month.2

Alcohol Use Disorders (AUDs) in the United States:
Adults (ages 18+): 16.6 million adults ages 18 and older3 (7.0 percent of this age group4) had an AUD in 2013. This includes 10.8 million men3 (9.4 percent of men in this age group4) and 5.8 million women3 (4.7 percent of women in this age group4).
About 1.3 million adults received treatment for an AUD at a specialized facility in 2013 (7.8 percent of adults who needed treatment). This included 904,000 million men (8.0 percent of men in need) and 444,000 women (7.3 percent of women who needed treatment).5


Not quite the "overwhelming majority" of responsible drinkers that you'd like to believe, huh? But hey, who cares about facts? You're basing all of this on your feels.

I don't the think majority can use drugs responsibly.
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Any evidence to back that up, or again, just your feels giving you that opinion?

380px-Development_of_a_rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_of_potential_misuse_%28physical_harm_and_dependence%2C_NA_free_means%29.svg.png


Boy, look at all those illegal drugs that are less addictive than alcohol. But surely it's harder to use those responsibly, than it is to drink responsibly.. right?
 
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#8,420
#8,420
In my completely anecdotal experience, I deal with alcohol related illnesses far more so then I do illnesses related to "illegal drugs". Either way, tobacco blows them both out of the water.
 
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#8,422
#8,422
volbeast33 said:
I answered on the post above this one.
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Your contention has been reduced to a single thread of hope, that it's "easier" to use alcohol responsibly compared to other drugs.

Well, how do you determine that? What is your criteria for responsible use? That seems like something you would need an actual study on to determine. Let's examine dependence, since that seems very relevant to your claim.

Are some illegal drugs more addictive than alcohol? Yes, research says there are. It also says there are many illegal substances less addictive than alcohol. There are many legal substances more addictive than alcohol. Is dependence what you're basing this on? Is the cut off line at alcohol? Ban tobacco, then. Legalize weed, mushrooms, LSD, ecstasy, etc.
 
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#8,423
#8,423
MercyPercy said:
Your contention has been reduced to a single thread of hope, that it's "easier" to use alcohol responsibly compared to other drugs.

Well, how do you determine that? What is your criteria for responsible use? That seems like something you would need an actual study on to determine. Let's examine dependence, since that seems very relevant to your claim.

Are some illegal drugs more addictive than alcohol? Yes, research says there are. It also says there are many illegal substances less addictive than alcohol. There are many legal substances more addictive than alcohol. Is dependence what you're basing this on? Is the cut off line at alcohol? Ban tobacco, then. Legalize weed, mushrooms, LSD, ecstasy, etc.
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I'm completely ok with tobacco,drugs, and alcohol being illegal. It's just my opinion that the % of alcohol users causing harm is much less than drug users from my friends I have observed and working in a medical field.
 
#8,424
#8,424
TNsnyper20 said:
Family.. I've had drunks and drug addicts in my family. The drug addicts were way worse than the drunks. It's not even close.
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I'm sorry you have bad personal experiences with your family. I have to reiterate, though, that we should not make public policy based on anecdotal evidence.

What drugs, BTW?
 
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