The Official New England Patriots Thread

#801
#801
Seattle CB - Will Blackmon Verified account ‏@willblackmon

For Goddell so loved the NFL he gave his one and only son... Roger 3:16
 
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#802
#802
11260576_10153371669257783_5481012188711573996_n.jpg
 
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#803
#803
VolsSportsFan said:
Not really. This will blow over and the only people still clinging to it will be places like this and rival fans' pages.
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Time to wake up and smell the coffee. It's getting bigger and bigger.

Now A.J. Feeley said he saw Tom Brady receiving broken-in footballs during a game in 2004, back when the same balls were supposed to be used by both teams. Feeley, meanwhile, said the Dolphins were getting new balls every time!
 
#804
#804
Brady and the Pats did the NFL a favor by cheating again. Now the NFL will have to tighten down the procedures and will watch them even closer. Even MLB tightened their procedures on pre-game ball security last year before any of this happened. It's a bad deal for Pats fans. But to defend it is ridiculous.
 
#805
#805
Vols4us said:
Brady and the Pats did the NFL a favor by cheating again. Now the NFL will have to tighten down the procedures and will watch them even closer. Even MLB tightened their procedures on pre-game ball security last year before any of this happened. It's a bad deal for Pats fans. But to defend it is ridiculous.
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Brady will probably not miss a game
 
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#808
#808
VolsSportsFan said:
Not really. This will blow over and the only people still clinging to it will be places like this and rival fans' pages.
Click to expand...

Is that why spy-gate hasn't blown over? 90% of the comments on ESPN Brady/Pats articles have always been people calling them cheaters with the other 10% being Patriots fans claiming people are haters and jealous. Why would this blow over when their previous transgressions haven't? I assure you that if a poll was taken across the country, more than 50% would vote to put an asterisk next to every last Patriots title. If that's your definition of blowing over, then you're right, it will blow over and by blow over, I mean people will continue calling them cheaters like they've been doing since the last time they got caught cheating.

Why would people let cheating go? It puts their team at a disadvantage and quite frankly, I say we have 4 different champions had they never cheated. Those cheaters couldn't pull out a single Super Bowl by more than 3-4 points in 4 wins. Odds dictate they're 0/4 without cheating. Brady, Belichick, and the Patriots championships and legacy will forever be tainted just like Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez, Roger Clemens, Curt Schilling etc. Heck, there is zero proof people like Jeff Bagwell ever took roids but even he gets left out of the hall based on assumption. You think the Patriots are going to be given a pass despite being caught in the act of not only breaking one rule, but breaking multiple rules?

Many outside of the Patriots fan base will forever view these guys as cheaters and not the legitimate champions. I've never once thought of the Patriots championships and been like "oh, they were amazing that year". My first thought was always, "who cares, they cheated". Now they've been caught cheating again. Blow over? Yeah right, this just reaffirms my belief of what cheaters they are and will forever be. If anything, the cheater talk and hatred of the Patriots will pick up as they've won yet another championship with their only punishment being draft picks and money taken away. If you're not gonna actually strip the titles, then who f'ing cares if you cheat? Every team would trade 1.25 million, two 1sts, and one 4th for 4 championships. Are you kidding me? Patriots should be mocked forever over their cheating ways and lack of punishment.

The only real punishment in this all is that non-Pats fans don't acknowledge their titles as being legit and that will never go away. The fans are better at punishing the Patriots than the league.
 
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#809
#809
TOP said:
Is that why spy-gate hasn't blown over? 90% of the comments on ESPN Brady/Pats articles have always been people calling them cheaters with the other 10% being Patriots fans claiming people are haters and jealous. Why would this blow over when their previous transgressions haven't? I assure you that if a poll was taken across the country, more than 50% would vote to put an asterisk next to every last Patriots title. If that's your definition of blowing over, then you're right, it will blow over and by blow over, I mean people will continue calling them cheaters like they've been doing since the last time they got caught cheating.

Why would people let cheating go? It puts their team at a disadvantage and quite frankly, I say we have 4 different champions had they never cheated. Those cheaters couldn't pull out a single Super Bowl by more than 3-4 points in 4 wins. Odds dictate they're 0/4 without cheating. Brady, Belichick, and the Patriots championships and legacy will forever be tainted just like Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez, Roger Clemens, Curt Schilling etc. Heck, there is zero proof people like Jeff Bagwell ever took roids but even he gets left out of the hall based on assumption. You think the Patriots are going to be given a pass despite being caught in the act of not only breaking one rule, but breaking multiple rules?

Many outside of the Patriots fan base will forever view these guys as cheaters and not the legitimate champions. I've never once thought of the Patriots championships and been like "oh, they were amazing that year". My first thought was always, "who cares, they cheated". Now they've been caught cheating again. Blow over? Yeah right, this just reaffirms my belief of what cheaters they are and will forever be. If anything, the cheater talk and hatred of the Patriots will pick up as they've won yet another championship with their only punishment being draft picks and money taken away. If you're not gonna actually strip the titles, then who f'ing cares if you cheat? Every team would trade 1.25 million, two 1sts, and one 4th for 4 championships. Are you kidding me? Patriots should be mocked forever over their cheating ways and lack of punishment.

The only real punishment in this all is that non-Pats fans don't acknowledge their titles as being legit and that will never go away. The fans are better at punishing the Patriots than the league.
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Did you read the Wells Report? It's a farce, they have zero proof - none, nada, zilch.

I'm not a Patriots fan but I'm not a Patriots hater either.
I consider all their Titles legitimate. They earned them.'

I'm guessing that your resentment has something to do with Peyton Manning like many people on this forum. You desperately wanted Manning to be considered the GOAT and resent the fact that Brady has been far more successful.
 
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#811
#811
TN Ribs said:
Did you read the Wells Report? It's a farce, they have zero proof - none, nada, zilch.
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Roger Goodell has suspended players in the past with no proof of misdeeds so that's not an issue.

Brady is required by his contract to fully cooperate with NFL investigations and he refused after a point. As did the Patriots organization. That alone is enough for the penalties.
 
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#812
#812
dobre_shunka said:
Roger Goodell has suspended players in the past with no proof of misdeeds so that's not an issue.

Brady is required by his contract to fully cooperate with NFL investigations and he refused after a point. As did the Patriots organization. That alone is enough for the penalties.
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This. Brady/Pats responded the way they have because they know they are guilty or they would have willingly complied with anything requested. They didn't. This is all a gnashing of teeth and beating of the chest to reduce the penalties.

I sincerely hope Brady and the Pats choose to go through the legal system. The rules of discovery will apply and his precious cell phone text records, along with those of the entire organization would be subject to it. Then the little matter of withholding the employee from additional interview(s) as well as Brady and others would be knocked in the head through the deposition process. Through that process the truth would be easily determined for the whole world to know. So if they are not guilty - go legal like Vilma said.
 
#813
#813
Vols4us said:
This. Brady/Pats responded the way they have because they know they are guilty or they would have willingly complied with anything requested. They didn't. This is all a gnashing of teeth and beating of the chest to reduce the penalties.

I sincerely hope Brady and the Pats choose to go through the legal system. The rules of discovery will apply and his precious cell phone text records, along with those of the entire organization would be subject to it. Then the little matter of withholding the employee from additional interview(s) as well as Brady and others would be knocked in the head through the deposition process. Through that process the truth would be easily determined for the whole world to know. So if they are not guilty - go legal like Vilma said.
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McNally was interviewed four times, three times by NFL investigators and once by Wells. He spent over seven hours with Wells. Does that sound like they did not cooperate?

As for Brady's phone, Goodell refused to give up his phone during the Mueller investigation (Ray Rice) last year. Why would anyone give up their personal phone without a subpoena? I wouldn't.
 
#814
#814
TN Ribs said:
McNally was interviewed four times, three times by NFL investigators and once by Wells. He spent over seven hours with Wells. Does that sound like they did not cooperate?

As for Brady's phone, Goodell refused to give up his phone during the Mueller investigation (Ray Rice) last year. Why would anyone give up their personal phone without a subpoena? I wouldn't.
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Wells wanted a follow-up interview, and the Pats refused to make McNally available for it. That's not cooperating.
 
#817
#817
Vol knight said:
Wells wanted a follow-up interview, and the Pats refused to make McNally available for it. That's not cooperating.
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There's a very plausible explanation why he was not made available. It's all explained in the Wells Report in Context.

The Wells Report in Context

I read the explanation and it sounds to me like the NFL was not cooperating including the fact that they did not follow the agreed upon interview protocol.
 
#818
#818
TOP said:
Is that why spy-gate hasn't blown over? 90% of the comments on ESPN Brady/Pats articles have always been people calling them cheaters with the other 10% being Patriots fans claiming people are haters and jealous. Why would this blow over when their previous transgressions haven't? I assure you that if a poll was taken across the country, more than 50% would vote to put an asterisk next to every last Patriots title. If that's your definition of blowing over, then you're right, it will blow over and by blow over, I mean people will continue calling them cheaters like they've been doing since the last time they got caught cheating.

Why would people let cheating go? It puts their team at a disadvantage and quite frankly, I say we have 4 different champions had they never cheated. Those cheaters couldn't pull out a single Super Bowl by more than 3-4 points in 4 wins. Odds dictate they're 0/4 without cheating. Brady, Belichick, and the Patriots championships and legacy will forever be tainted just like Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez, Roger Clemens, Curt Schilling etc. Heck, there is zero proof people like Jeff Bagwell ever took roids but even he gets left out of the hall based on assumption. You think the Patriots are going to be given a pass despite being caught in the act of not only breaking one rule, but breaking multiple rules?

Many outside of the Patriots fan base will forever view these guys as cheaters and not the legitimate champions. I've never once thought of the Patriots championships and been like "oh, they were amazing that year". My first thought was always, "who cares, they cheated". Now they've been caught cheating again. Blow over? Yeah right, this just reaffirms my belief of what cheaters they are and will forever be. If anything, the cheater talk and hatred of the Patriots will pick up as they've won yet another championship with their only punishment being draft picks and money taken away. If you're not gonna actually strip the titles, then who f'ing cares if you cheat? Every team would trade 1.25 million, two 1sts, and one 4th for 4 championships. Are you kidding me? Patriots should be mocked forever over their cheating ways and lack of punishment.

The only real punishment in this all is that non-Pats fans don't acknowledge their titles as being legit and that will never go away. The fans are better at punishing the Patriots than the league.
Click to expand...

You just proved my point...you know who is still whining about "spy-gate"? People like you, and that's it. It's laughable if you think it's some kind of hot topic.

You're freakin' hilarious when you get all upset. And good lord, you're using freakin ESPN comments as some kind of proof? Did you just start reading the comments yesterday?
 
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#819
#819
vols-1 said:
Time to wake up and smell the coffee. It's getting bigger and bigger.

Now A.J. Feeley said he saw Tom Brady receiving broken-in footballs during a game in 2004, back when the same balls were supposed to be used by both teams. Feeley, meanwhile, said the Dolphins were getting new balls every time!
Click to expand...

If that's all the proof you have that it's getting "bigger and bigger", I think Brady will be ok.
 
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#820
#820
TOP said:
Is that why spy-gate hasn't blown over? 90% of the comments on ESPN Brady/Pats articles have always been people calling them cheaters with the other 10% being Patriots fans claiming people are haters and jealous. Why would this blow over when their previous transgressions haven't? I assure you that if a poll was taken across the country, more than 50% would vote to put an asterisk next to every last Patriots title. If that's your definition of blowing over, then you're right, it will blow over and by blow over, I mean people will continue calling them cheaters like they've been doing since the last time they got caught cheating.

Why would people let cheating go? It puts their team at a disadvantage and quite frankly, I say we have 4 different champions had they never cheated. Those cheaters couldn't pull out a single Super Bowl by more than 3-4 points in 4 wins. Odds dictate they're 0/4 without cheating. Brady, Belichick, and the Patriots championships and legacy will forever be tainted just like Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez, Roger Clemens, Curt Schilling etc. Heck, there is zero proof people like Jeff Bagwell ever took roids but even he gets left out of the hall based on assumption. You think the Patriots are going to be given a pass despite being caught in the act of not only breaking one rule, but breaking multiple rules?

Many outside of the Patriots fan base will forever view these guys as cheaters and not the legitimate champions. I've never once thought of the Patriots championships and been like "oh, they were amazing that year". My first thought was always, "who cares, they cheated". Now they've been caught cheating again. Blow over? Yeah right, this just reaffirms my belief of what cheaters they are and will forever be. If anything, the cheater talk and hatred of the Patriots will pick up as they've won yet another championship with their only punishment being draft picks and money taken away. If you're not gonna actually strip the titles, then who f'ing cares if you cheat? Every team would trade 1.25 million, two 1sts, and one 4th for 4 championships. Are you kidding me? Patriots should be mocked forever over their cheating ways and lack of punishment.

The only real punishment in this all is that non-Pats fans don't acknowledge their titles as being legit and that will never go away. The fans are better at punishing the Patriots than the league.
Click to expand...

That's fine as long as you're consistent. Can we put an asterisk beside all the Steelers Super Bowl victories of the 70's since a lot of them have admitted to using steroids? Can we strike down all of Jerry Rice's records since he admitted using stickum?
 
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#822
#822
Vols4us said:
This. Brady/Pats responded the way they have because they know they are guilty or they would have willingly complied with anything requested. They didn't. This is all a gnashing of teeth and beating of the chest to reduce the penalties.

I sincerely hope Brady and the Pats choose to go through the legal system. The rules of discovery will apply and his precious cell phone text records, along with those of the entire organization would be subject to it. Then the little matter of withholding the employee from additional interview(s) as well as Brady and others would be knocked in the head through the deposition process. Through that process the truth would be easily determined for the whole world to know. So if they are not guilty - go legal like Vilma said.
Click to expand...

You do realize that he is going to have to give up all his text messages and emails during the appeal process right?
 
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#823
#823
Forget the game suspensions, Tom should have to spend a season with the looks of Clint Howard.
CFEVrPgWAAAewqH.jpg:large
 
#824
#824
orange plasma said:
Why is no one screaming about the incredible decline in fumbles per touches for only the Patriots since 2006? Their fumbles are an unbelievable 1/2 of the league average the last 9 years. It started right after the nfl started allowing teams to supply their own balls for away games. A proposal initiated by Brady.The pattern of deceit is obvious from Foxboro.
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Alright enough of this garbage. First Brady AND Peyton Manning initiated the proposal. The entire fumble theory is based on a piece written by a man named Warren Sharp. Sharp's conclusion was that the Patriots were 88% less likely to fumble than other teams in the league, and players fumble far less while playing for the Pats then they do when playing for other teams. On the face of it, that's astonishing and would clearly indicate something nefarious going on. The problem is that Sharp's data is skewed, badly. Not just for individual stats, but for team fumbles as well. It's a snapshot chosen strategically to mask all other variables.

Any regression model will show that they were projected to fumble less over time based on their play mix % changing over time. The Colts the year prior had a better five year fumble rate, which complete disproves the anomaly. As for the individual data. If an advantage was held by New England, it stands to reason the same would be true for individuals. The fact that Mr. Sharp used special teams fumbles without adjusting based on fumble type or quite frankly not having the decency to include special teams touches in his model is disingenuous. Special teams fumbles actually happen at 2x the rate of rb/wr touches. Unless this is adjusted for, you can't compare the two. If you remove fumbles from special teams the advantage is negligent and traced almost entirely to one player, an outlier.

In conclusion if the data is appropriately applied, the Patriots still do have an advantage over other teams when it comes to not fumbling the football. The problem is that their advantage is 23%, not the preposterous 88% that Mr. Sharp concluded. A 23% advantage would be defined as statistical noise.
If you would like me to get more in depth as far is individual fumble rates, I can later tonight.
 
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#825
#825
Boston Vol said:
Alright enough of this garbage. First Brady AND Peyton Manning initiated the proposal. The entire fumble theory is based on a piece written by a man named Warren Sharp. Sharp's conclusion was that the Patriots were 88% less likely to fumble than other teams in the league, and players fumble far less while playing for the Pats then they do when playing for other teams. On the face of it, that's astonishing and would clearly indicate something nefarious going on. The problem is that Sharp's data is skewed, badly. Not just for individual stats, but for team fumbles as well. It's a snapshot chosen strategically to mask all other variables.

Any regression model will show that they were projected to fumble less over time based on their play mix % changing over time. The Colts the year prior had a better five year fumble rate, which complete disproves the anomaly. As for the individual data. If an advantage was held by New England, it stands to reason the same would be true for individuals. The fact that Mr. Sharp used special teams fumbles without adjusting based on fumble type or quite frankly not having the decency to include special teams touches in his model is disingenuous. Special teams fumbles actually happen at 2x the rate of rb/wr touches. Unless this is adjusted for, you can't compare the two. If you remove fumbles from special teams the advantage is negligent and traced almost entirely to one player, an outlier.

In conclusion if the data is appropriately applied, the Patriots still do have an advantage over other teams when it comes to not fumbling the football. The problem is that their advantage is 23%, not the preposterous 88% that Mr. Sharp concluded. A 23% advantage would be defined as statistical noise.
If you would like me to get more in depth as far is individual fumble rates, I can later tonight.
Click to expand...

While you are at it compare the fumbles that occurred in the passing game. How do they compare with peer average when it comes to their receivers fumbling? That would be interesting to know.
 
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