To Protect and to Serve...

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And again, history shows that every time they showed up in the past the man was compliant.

How would you have handled the situation?

First let me say that the mom is an idiot. She absolutely should've taken the screwdriver away from him before the cops got there.

With that said... You have a guy who's been nothing but compliant all the previous times and wasn't aggresively wielding the screwdriver when he first walked out. I'd say back up to create a little bit of distance, don't aggressively bark orders at him, and ask the mom to get the screwdriver away from him.
 
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Why are you and others ignoring the fact that each time they had showed up before the man had never been a threat. And according to CNN, was "hundreds" of times. Now I doubt it was hundreds, but I'd be willing to bet it was enough to think "we've got to go here and make him take his meds again." Nothing more, nothing less.

Yet this time he showed up with a weapon and attacked the officers.

Complacency? Sure. Just not in the way you're implying. Had they gone in on high alert it might have ended differently. But I can tell you from personal experience you get called out to a particular residence enough, you know what happens and you get complacent. Is it right? No, because you should always expect the unexpected. But on the same token, they probably have done it enough times not to consider that person a threat. And if you consider the positioning of the officers, their tone, inflection, their stance and demeanor, you can see they aren't going in with hostility or anything else. There are no barked commands, no pistols drawn from the beginning. Just two random cops going to a residence that has been visited multiple times in the past and (likely) always ended with guy taking his meds and everyone going away happy.



And again, you have less than a second to decide to get stabbed or fight. Flee was not an option as I stated before.

Your choice.



The same people she had called before and completed the call without incident how may times?

Don't ignore the history here. It's very central to the argument.

Simple question, what would've been the teaching block of infomation if one of the officers happened to be killed that day?
 
First let me say that the mom is an idiot. She absolutely should've taken the screwdriver away from him before the cops got there.

I won't disagree. There could have been conditional factors that we don't know about prior to the arrival of the patrol.

With that said... You have a guy who's been nothing but compliant all the previous times and wasn't aggresively wielding the screwdriver when he first walked out. I'd say back up to create a little bit of distance, don't aggressively bark orders at him, and ask the mom to get the screwdriver away from him.

And the first commands weren't barked by any means.

"Drop that for me guy." Exact quote. Not said with hostility. Said with an even tone and no threatening moves by the officer that said it. Just pointed and said "drop that for me guy."

One second later, a more aggressive command is given. And less than a second later, the first shot is fired.

Distance I've covered at length. Officer didn't put himself in a good position. That's on him.

And when Mom refuses? What do they do then. Again, four seconds from start to finish. They didn't have the time to ask Mom to do that.
 
Simple question, what would've been the teaching block of infomation if one of the officers happened to be killed that day?

Complacency. And don't let yourself get lured into it.

Following lesson would be positioning and reactionary distance. Don't let yourself get pinned into a place where you cannot react.
 
For me, as the one cop says "drop that for me guy" the taser would've been out. If he then proceeded to charge, he would've been tased, not killed.
 
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For me, as the one cop says "drop that for me guy" the taser would've been out.

So escalate a situation, which again, has historically calmed itself? And furthermore, maybe he was using it before the cops got there, tightening a screw or something.

A weapon of opportunity is a thin line of action vs inaction only separated by intent. And in this case, we only have less than a second of intent that, again historically, has been missing from the equation.

I agree the cops were complacent. And probably shouldn't have been.
 
I think the initial request to drop the screwdriver should have come from his mom. He trusts her and would be far more likely to comply.
 
I think the initial request to drop the screwdriver should have come from his mom. He trusts her and would be far more likely to comply.

She did. At least called his name a split second after the cop gives the order and continues yelling at him until the first shots are fired. (22 seconds in the video)

When a mom uses that tone with you, you know you're doing something wrong.
 
So escalate a situation, which again, has historically calmed itself? And furthermore, maybe he was using it before the cops got there, tightening a screw or something.

A weapon of opportunity is a thin line of action vs inaction only separated by intent. And in this case, we only have less than a second of intent that, again historically, has been missing from the equation.

I agree the cops were complacent. And probably shouldn't have been.

I wouldn't view that as escalating the situation per se, it's simple protection, and is there as a deterrent. Saying, his actions will have consequences.
I wish the other cops camera footage would be released. So we can see both angles.

However, it's all Monday morning quarterbacking a bad situation all the way around. A mother has to bury her son.
 
I wouldn't view that as escalating the situation per se, it's simple protection, and is there as a deterrent. Saying, his actions will have consequences.
I wish the other cops camera footage would be released. So we can see both angles.

However, it's all Monday morning quarterbacking a bad situation all the way around. A mother has to bury her son.

See, this is why I love it when you and your other cop bashers comment on these threads.

The other officer's camera was broken. Stated it right there in the article. Might have overlooked that fact during the outrage portion of your posting.

And had they gotten tasers or other LTL devices out, you all would ***** that the situation was being escalated since the person had been compliant each and every time before.

Had they called the EMTs to go out instead and one of them got stabbed and killed, you'd ***** that the cops weren't doing their job in protecting the med folks.

Had an officer been stabbed or killed because they tried to use LTL force, you'd ***** that they weren't trained properly.

There is no winning with you in this thread.
 
See, this is why I love it when you and your other cop bashers comment on these threads.

The other officer's camera was broken. Stated it right there in the article. Might have overlooked that fact during the outrage portion of your posting.

And had they gotten tasers or other LTL devices out, you all would ***** that the situation was being escalated since the person had been compliant each and every time before.

Had they called the EMTs to go out instead and one of them got stabbed and killed, you'd ***** that the cops weren't doing their job in protecting the med folks.

Had an officer been stabbed or killed because they tried to use LTL force, you'd ***** that they weren't trained properly.

There is no winning with you in this thread.

Wow you're a mind reader... Got any other tricks? Or will you as usual, resort to your childish name calling behavior? Seriously, get over yourself.

Btw it's pretty damn convenient that camera is "broken"
 
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Wow you're a mind reader... Got any other tricks? Or will you as usual, resort to your childish name calling behavior? Seriously, get over yourself.

Btw it's pretty damn convenient that camera is "broken"

I know that is pretty wild… His camera just so happen to be broken on the day he's involved in a shooting and clearly had the best angle of what happened. What are the odds?
 
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Wow you're a mind reader... Got any other tricks? Or will you as usual, resort to your childish name calling behavior? Seriously, get over yourself.

Btw it's pretty damn convenient that camera is "broken"

Yeah, figured that would be your argument.

So sorry the shoe fits. It's not me that's bringing that to the table. It's your actions throughout this thread that lead me to game it out. Nothing the cops ever do is good enough. It's always too much or not enough in your world.

Oh, and the body camera? The one that filmed it was bought by the officer himself and they aren't mandatory yet:

Dallas police testing officer body cameras - Fox4News.com | Dallas-Fort Worth News, Weather, Sports

Dallas Police Association wants body cameras now, and to combine DA, police investigations | Dallas Morning News

Dallas police get first real look at shooting by officer wearing camera | Dallas Morning News

In light of Ferguson, DA-elect Susan Hawk announces plan to use forfeiture funds to buy police body cameras | Dallas Morning News

Funny that the last link goes right to the article we're discussing.
 
I know that is pretty wild… His camera just so happen to be broken on the day he's involved in a shooting and clearly had the best angle of what happened. What are the odds?

Don't worry, it's under investigation by the police. You know, the ones who aren't accountable to the ones who are actually paying their salary.
 
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I know that is pretty wild… His camera just so happen to be broken on the day he's involved in a shooting and clearly had the best angle of what happened. What are the odds?

What are the odds that both would be broken in such a "questionable" shoot?

Oh wait, one was working...

Sorry your cover up theory isn't going to pan out.
 
Yeah, figured that would be your argument.

So sorry the shoe fits. It's not me that's bringing that to the table. It's your actions throughout this thread that lead me to game it out. Nothing the cops ever do is good enough. It's always too much or not enough in your world.

Oh, and the body camera? The one that filmed it was bought by the officer himself and they aren't mandatory yet:

Dallas police testing officer body cameras - Fox4News.com | Dallas-Fort Worth News, Weather, Sports

Dallas Police Association wants body cameras now, and to combine DA, police investigations | Dallas Morning News

Dallas police get first real look at shooting by officer wearing camera | Dallas Morning News

In light of Ferguson, DA-elect Susan Hawk announces plan to use forfeiture funds to buy police body cameras | Dallas Morning News

Funny that the last link goes right to the article we're discussing.
Of those links, I really like the one that states cops will use forfeiture funds I.E. Drug war money to buy the cameras lol typical.
 
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Don't worry, it's under investigation by the police. You know, the ones who aren't accountable to the ones who are actually paying their salary.

Do you not do any fact checking?

<sigh> Anytime a Dallas officer is involved in a shoot, there are two investigations conducted. One internally by the police and the other by the DA.

How effective are they? They've already charged two officers involved in what was found to be an illegal shoot.

Get over myself? Really? Get over your own ignorance and actually start fact checking.
 
Just so I have this straight… The other officer was wearing one. Only it was his personal camera and not required by the department. And it was broken that day?

I have this all correct, right?
 
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Just so I have this straight… The other officer was wearing one. Only it was his personal camera and not required by the department. And it was broken that day?

I have this all correct, right?

One officer was wearing one. Personally bought. It worked as we see the video. Was not required (yet) by the department.

The other one I don't know as it doesn't say. All it said was it didn't work. I don't know if it was personally purchased or one of the ones the department was testing.
 
You know GV, I find it funny that you defend/work for the very same system that you rail against with gun control. It's all government force at the end of the day. Cops are just the enforcement arm of a criminal government. Cognitive dissonance at its finest.
 
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