Ukraine Protests

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#9,476
#9,476
MG1968 said:
That movie was the inspiration for one of the levels in the original Call of Duty video game.
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I have to admit, the story behind it is pretty badass. Not entirely correct as it was some serious Soviet propaganda, but the premise was badass.
 
#9,478
#9,478
Pacer92 said:
With all the worlds eyes on Russia lately, why in the world would Putin need to knock off a guy who won only 14% of the votes in the Sochi mayoral election? This guy was a nobody.

Do you not think that Russian intelligence is no more sophisticated than shooting a man in front of the kremlin? This makes it even more obvious that it wasn't an inside job.

The whole thing was created purposely to happen just the way it did, when it did(2 days before an opposition rally) to cause a media frenzy.

Are you guys really this naive?!
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No, but we did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.
 
#9,480
#9,480
Grand Vol said:
I find it extremely sad you know that man's name specifically.

Please tell me you had to at least do a search for "Pee Wee Herman Actor" or something.
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Pee Wee's Big Adventure is one of the greatest products of American cinema, nay, American society itself.

When Pee Wee pulls out his platform shoes and dance to "Tequilla" in the bar, the whole world stops and watches. Poetry in motion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BodXwAYeTfM
 
#9,481
#9,481
Pacer92 said:
With all the worlds eyes on Russia lately, why in the world would Putin need to knock off a guy who won only 14% of the votes in the Sochi mayoral election? This guy was a nobody.

Do you not think that Russian intelligence is no more sophisticated than shooting a man in front of the kremlin? This makes it even more obvious that it wasn't an inside job.

The whole thing was created purposely to happen just the way it did, when it did(2 days before an opposition rally) to cause a media frenzy.

Are you guys really this naive?!
Click to expand...

Again, look at the dead bodies that have fallen since Putin took power. Seeing how they were killed and where would put things in perspective for you. A nobody? There is a long list of nobodies who are dead, jailed, or deported. What exactly makes this obvious that it was not an inside job? Be careful how you answer this. You may want to cheat and see how other assassinations have been done. Russian media has already compared this to another high profile assassination.

As for being created for a media frenzy, which media? The rest of the world really cares less. Most people have no clue of anything going on in Russia. The media within Russia? Naw. Putin controls that and spins this exactly how he wants to. Just see all the modeling shots of Nemtsov's girlfriend they keep posting.

Like I said before, Putin has far more to gain on this. If he did it, it's telling that this is a repeated pattern for him. If he didn't do it, it shows him as weak that a foreign intelligence service can get that close to a high profile politico right under the nose of the Kremlin and whack someone. In this case Putin is either guilty or incompetent. But it really does not matter. Like I said, he controls his media and the people will only see the details he wants them to see. The Russian people are spoonfed info from a single source. And this is somehow much better than the "MSM cabal" you gripe about all the time.
 
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#9,483
#9,483
volprof said:
Pee Wee's Big Adventure is one of the greatest products of American cinema, nay, American society itself.

When Pee Wee pulls out his platform shoes and dance to "Tequilla" in the bar, the whole world stops and watches. Poetry in motion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BodXwAYeTfM
Click to expand...

I'm not sure you should be talking about Pee Wee pulling anything out considering the history.
 
#9,484
#9,484
CSpindizzy said:
Again, look at the dead bodies that have fallen since Putin took power. Seeing how they were killed and where would put things in perspective for you. A nobody? There is a long list of nobodies who are dead, jailed, or deported. What exactly makes this obvious that it was not an inside job? Be careful how you answer this. You may want to cheat and see how other assassinations have been done. Russian media has already compared this to another high profile assassination.

As for being created for a media frenzy, which media? The rest of the world really cares less. Most people have no clue of anything going on in Russia. The media within Russia? Naw. Putin controls that and spins this exactly how he wants to. Just see all the modeling shots of Nemtsov's girlfriend they keep posting.

Like I said before, Putin has far more to gain on this. If he did it, it's telling that this is a repeated pattern for him. If he didn't do it, it shows him as weak that a foreign intelligence service can get that close to a high profile politico right under the nose of the Kremlin and whack someone. In this case Putin is either guilty or incompetent. But it really does not matter. Like I said, he controls his media and the people will only see the details he wants them to see. The Russian people are spoonfed info from a single source. And this is somehow much better than the "MSM cabal" you gripe about all the time.
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I think a lot of people who participate in these debates assume that the rest of America is interested as well. I would wager most Americans have only a passing familiarity with this crisis, and most of them certainly couldn't care less about it. Most Americans, although they may not have a high opinion of him, also couldn't care less about Putin.
 
#9,486
#9,486
CSpindizzy said:
Again, look at the dead bodies that have fallen since Putin took power. Seeing how they were killed and where would put things in perspective for you. A nobody? There is a long list of nobodies who are dead, jailed, or deported. What exactly makes this obvious that it was not an inside job? Be careful how you answer this. You may want to cheat and see how other assassinations have been done. Russian media has already compared this to another high profile assassination.

As for being created for a media frenzy, which media? The rest of the world really cares less. Most people have no clue of anything going on in Russia. The media within Russia? Naw. Putin controls that and spins this exactly how he wants to. Just see all the modeling shots of Nemtsov's girlfriend they keep posting.

Like I said before, Putin has far more to gain on this. If he did it, it's telling that this is a repeated pattern for him. If he didn't do it, it shows him as weak that a foreign intelligence service can get that close to a high profile politico right under the nose of the Kremlin and whack someone. In this case Putin is either guilty or incompetent. But it really does not matter. Like I said, he controls his media and the people will only see the details he wants them to see. The Russian people are spoonfed info from a single source. And this is somehow much better than the "MSM cabal" you gripe about all the time.
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Putin had ZERO to gain with this! Even opposition leaders have been quoted saying it's a provocation that is clearly not in Putin's interest.
 
#9,488
#9,488
Pacer92 said:
Putin had ZERO to gain with this! Even opposition leaders have been quoted saying it's a provocation that is clearly not in Putin's interest.
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Really Putin had nothing to gain by killing a man who organized a march against Russia's action in Ukraine and was apparently going to release documents on Russia's involvement and was apparently on the take from NED or whatever? this is the same guy that has been running all foreigners and foreign corporations out of his country. that's ignoring the fact that despite him being a small percentage of the votes he was the most outspoken individual left in Russia, a country decreasing the number of 'free' news sources at an alarming rate.

i really wish the CIA was capable of pulling this off (except for the whole murder thing)
 
#9,490
#9,490
LouderVol said:
Really Putin had nothing to gain by killing a man who organized a march against Russia's action in Ukraine and was apparently going to release documents on Russia's involvement and was apparently on the take from NED or whatever? this is the same guy that has been running all foreigners and foreign corporations out of his country. that's ignoring the fact that despite him being a small percentage of the votes he was the most outspoken individual left in Russia, a country decreasing the number of 'free' news sources at an alarming rate.

i really wish the CIA was capable of pulling this off (except for the whole murder thing)
Click to expand...

Kind of difficult to have an opposition in a nation wherein they all keep dropping like flies.

No wonder Putin has such a high approval rate. Hardly anyone left to take him to task for all his crap.
 
#9,491
#9,491
Pacer92 said:
Putin had ZERO to gain with this! Even opposition leaders have been quoted saying it's a provocation that is clearly not in Putin's interest.
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Zero to gain? Seriously? Are you really this dense or is this an act? What opposition leaders? There was a rally scheduled before this. A fear among many in the Kremlin is this rally or following ones could actually bring a fractured opposition together. There were rumors that Khodorkovsky was interested in bankrolling Nemtsov's campaign. Even Navalny and Nemtsov were getting chummy. This has been the weakness of any and all opposition up to this point. There were several players with fractured groups. These groups were coalescing around Putin's actions in Ukraine. If these groups came together with this bankroll and in a completely united front they posed a serious threat to Putin politically.

Whether he did it or not, Putin has far more to gain in this event. Khodorkovsky has no one to bank behind. He may still go with Navalny but he was more on board with Nemtsov. Nemtsov was the face of the opposition. Navalny is finishing up his jail sentence on trumped up charges. There is no one left. No unity. Intimidation drives this hope of opposition to Putin back into the shadows. As for some notion of a martyr, as I said yesterday Putin can handle a martyr. He's used his media to complete disgrace some of the most noble people in Russia. A martyr can be soiled. No voice to counter and pose a response. A living breathing person CAN still speak and pose a threat.

Pacer - I applaud your tenacity although it is clearly misguided. One thing about people like you is that you apply this across the board mentality to all situations without taking into consideration history, culture, etc. Killing in daylight is not out of the ordinary for politicians in Russia. Killing in public high profile locations is not out of the ordinary. Killing top opponents is not out of the ordinary. There is nothing in this story out of the ordinary. The fact that Nemtsov even said his time could be near speaks volumes. This is very much to Putin's interest. I know the Russian media is now pushing the narrative you are now going with about Nemtsov being a nobody. That is a load of garbage and part of what I say about discrediting the martyr. Whether Putin ordered the hit or not, he is in far better shape than he was before and any hope of opposition is now severely negated. Russia is truly becoming a single party nation - government control of media and economy and no political threats internally. That is unless Putin upsets the guns behind the throne just like in Soviet times.
 
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#9,492
#9,492
Grand Vol said:
So what does the US have to gain by killing an opposition leader?
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As I've gleaned his previous posts on this, apparently the purpose is to get all of us Americans in even more of a tizzy against Putin.

Why, I bet when you go to the grocery store or local restaurant this evening, the place will be abuzz with anti-Russian, anti-Putin conversations.
 
#9,493
#9,493
LouderVol said:
Really Putin had nothing to gain by killing a man who organized a march against Russia's action in Ukraine and was apparently going to release documents on Russia's involvement and was apparently on the take from NED or whatever? this is the same guy that has been running all foreigners and foreign corporations out of his country. that's ignoring the fact that despite him being a small percentage of the votes he was the most outspoken individual left in Russia, a country decreasing the number of 'free' news sources at an alarming rate.

i really wish the CIA was capable of pulling this off (except for the whole murder thing)
Click to expand...

Convince yourself all you want...
 
#9,494
#9,494
Pacer92 said:
Convince yourself all you want...
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of what? if you have evidence against any of those items please bring them forward. or even arguments against any of those points, please lets have a conversation. instead i get the same ole 'MSM bs, sheeple, blah blah blah'.
 
#9,495
#9,495
CSpindizzy said:
Zero to gain? Seriously? Are you really this dense or is this an act? What opposition leaders? There was a rally scheduled before this. A fear among many in the Kremlin is this rally or following ones could actually bring a fractured opposition together. There were rumors that Khodorkovsky was interested in bankrolling Nemtsov's campaign. Even Navalny and Nemtsov were getting chummy. This has been the weakness of any and all opposition up to this point. There were several players with fractured groups. These groups were coalescing around Putin's actions in Ukraine. If these groups came together with this bankroll and in a completely united front they posed a serious threat to Putin politically.

Whether he did it or not, Putin has far more to gain in this event. Khodorkovsky has no one to bank behind. He may still go with Navalny but he was more on board with Nemtsov. Nemtsov was the face of the opposition. Navalny is finishing up his jail sentence on trumped up charges. There is no one left. No unity. Intimidation drives this hope of opposition to Putin back into the shadows. As for some notion of a martyr, as I said yesterday Putin can handle a martyr. He's used his media to complete disgrace some of the most noble people in Russia. A martyr can be soiled. No voice to counter and pose a response. A living breathing person CAN still speak and pose a threat.

Pacer - I applaud your tenacity although it is clearly misguided. One thing about people like you is that you apply this across the board mentality to all situations without taking into consideration history, culture, etc. Killing in daylight is not out of the ordinary for politicians in Russia. Killing in public high profile locations is not out of the ordinary. Killing top opponents is not out of the ordinary. There is nothing in this story out of the ordinary. The fact that Nemtsov even said his time could be near speaks volumes. This is very much to Putin's interest. I know the Russian media is now pushing the narrative you are now going with about Nemtsov being a nobody. That is a load of garbage and part of what I say about discrediting the martyr. Whether Putin ordered the hit or not, he is in far better shape than he was before and any hope of opposition is now severely negated. Russia is truly becoming a single party nation - government control of media and economy and no political threats internally. That is unless Putin upsets the guns behind the throne just like in Soviet times.
Click to expand...

You keep throwing up "history" with Putin, while ignoring the history of the US warmongering and destabilizing countries when talking about the Ukraine crisis. This alone, tells me I'll get nothing but biased US applauding from you..
 
#9,496
#9,496
LouderVol said:
of what? if you have evidence against any of those items please bring them forward. or even arguments against any of those points, please lets have a conversation. instead i get the same ole 'MSM bs, sheeple, blah blah blah'.
Click to expand...

I did in my previous response that you chose to ignore..
 
#9,497
#9,497
Pacer92 said:
You keep throwing up "history" with Putin, while ignoring the history of the US warmongering and destabilizing countries when talking about the Ukraine crisis. This alone, tells me I'll get nothing but biased US applauding from you..
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I have yet to defend the US on anything here. I am not sure where you get me ignoring or even supporting the US. The topic is Ukraine. I am pointing out Russian involvement not only currently but in the past. You seem to be ignoring that fact. This alone, tells me I'll get nothing but biased Russian applauding from you.

So let me ask you, does Russia not have a similar history as the US? Is Russia not capable of being the evil you say the US is?

I'm still waiting for your response to the Russian media interview with the Russian soldier spelling out how his whole unit and equipment went into Russia. Since you don't like non-Russian media sources. This one is Russian and not a geneticist or slumlord or TechCamp coup enabler.
 
#9,500
#9,500
Pacer92 said:
To destabilize...they want regime change in Russia.
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So...in order to change the regime in Russia from the guy we supposedly don't like to a guy we like, we kill the opposition leader we like that's opposed to the guy we don't like in hopes of changing the regime we don't like to one that likes us?

Makes perfect sense.
 
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