Recruiting Forum Football Talk XVII

[daj2576]

I don't really understand how they can indict someone that has physical proof (The texts) that this was consensual? Can someone that knows the law try and explain this situation a little more clearly.

Though I hate taking this stance, since it makes me look like the usual sleaze bag fan that supports players that did awful things (Candy fans), but I'm thinking this chick is pushing this only because she doesn't want to admit to lying to begin with. A lie snow ball that has compounded until it was an avalanche in other words.

Because consent can be withdrawn at any time. So, just because I said yes ten minutes ago, doesn't mean I can't say no ten minutes from now.

 

[Maxwell]

My orders here in the Indianapolis are end soon and it doesn't appear that we will be staying here. I turned down the El Paso opportunity though. My old boss has been bugging me to come work for her in DC though and that is a much more appealing location change to my wife (aka Livingroom 6). So if everything falls into place it looks like my clan is going to the Cap. Thank you for asking.

Does anyone have any suggestions on a good location to live in the DC area?

Fairfax is where my sister-in-law lives now. She has lived all over that area and where she is now is probably my favorite and her kids favorite. She has lived in nicer areas than where she currently is and liked them much less.

 

[jave36]

I don't really understand how they can indict someone that has physical proof (The texts) that this was consensual? Can someone that knows the law try and explain this situation a little more clearly.

Though I hate taking this stance, since it makes me look like the usual sleaze bag fan that supports players that did awful things (Candy fans), but I'm thinking this chick is pushing this only because she doesn't want to admit to lying to begin with. A lie snow ball that has compounded until it was an avalanche in other words.

We don't know there were texts, that was the vn rumor. And even if it's true, the old saying about "you could indict a ham sandwich" is true. It's not even close to a guilty verdict.

 

[daj2576]

We don't know there were texts, that was the vn rumor. And even if it's true, the old saying about "you could indict a ham sandwich" is true. It's not even close to a guilty verdict.

Right on all accounts.

Though if I'm the defense attorney I want those texts to exist.

 

[LA Vol]

Because consent can be withdrawn at any time. So, just because I said yes ten minutes ago, doesn't mean I can't say no ten minutes from now.

Yes, it's her right to stop whenever she wants. But in this scenario, why not say "no," get up and leave?

 

[daj2576]

Yes, it's her right to stop whenever she wants. But in this scenario, why not say "no," get up and leave?

Oh man, I can't even begin to speak for someone in that position. I mean it's a good question for the defense to raise but I am not qualified to answer it.

 

[LA Vol]

Oh man, I can't even begin to speak for someone in that position. I mean it's a good question for the defense to raise but I am not qualified to answer it.

Oh, I know and I didn't mean to put you on the spot-- I was just raising a point of logic. I don't see any reason someone wouldn't-- or couldn't-- extricate herself from that situation, given the facts in the police report.

 

[daj2576]

Oh, I know and I didn't mean to put you on the spot-- I was just raising a point of logic. I don't see any reason someone wouldn't-- or couldn't-- extricate herself from that situation, given the facts in the police report.

Not all people handle fear and adversity in the same way. It isn't as simple as fight or flight.

I've seen people freeze up in the door of a C130, or at the door of a burning building, and others who were totally psyched to do either. People are...different.

 

[eazyTD]

We don't know there were texts, that was the vn rumor. And even if it's true, the old saying about "you could indict a ham sandwich" is true. It's not even close to a guilty verdict.

There were absolutely text messages between the alleged victim and AJ that night.

 

[UTProf]

There were absolutely text messages between the alleged victim and AJ that night.

I've heard that before and really think that was why the team and Thig were in AJs corner but that's all opinion based on seeing AJ as a good kid (Ted Bundy had a lot of folks snowed too -- came across as a good guy who was charming and charismatic -- so there's that too).

BUT as I said earlier, if the leaks/rumors are true the state's theory may be that he lured her there (aided and abetted Williams). In TN, aggravated rape makes them BOTH guilty of the same crime (doesn't matter who did what). Now, what is interesting in the presentment is that Williams is charged with aiding and abetting too (could be any number of reasons for that),

I hate that this happened, period. Rape or no rape something went wrong that night - maybe humiliation. Who knows.

 

[seaofORANGE22]

I think the big thing about Dillon goes beyond his physical talent. His football IQ is through the roof and even if there are slightly more talented MLB candidates (not saying there are but using an example), I'm not sure anyone can do a better job getting us lined up on D. All things considered that gives him a major edge - also allows him to play instinctual which eliminates most talent differentials.

We did get a redshirt for Dillon Bates last season right? If so that is clutch. I almost forgot about him. He should be good to go. He could emerge like JRM did last year. I'm intrigued by the idea of him in the middle. Our defense should be scary fast.

Also that Tax Slayer video a couple pages back that Wick posted was super enjoyable. Butch is right. The season ende strong. Good times are ahead.

It also reminded me of Charles Mosely. Funny kid. He made me think of Kahlil. They have sorta similar personalities. Those two are going to be fun to follow the next few years.

 

[MockingVol]

Because consent can be withdrawn at any time. So, just because I said yes ten minutes ago, doesn't mean I can't say no ten minutes from now.

IMO, if you don't make audible that "no" then it's on you. I feel like our country has gotten too far away from personal responsibility, and some people seem to confuse the terms "regret" and "rape".

Uggggh I just hate this entire situation. No matter what no one is going to come out of this a winner

 

[Enki_Amenra]

I figured out where Butch Jones learned how to build a recruiting class...

 

[RikidyBones]

Because consent can be withdrawn at any time. So, just because I said yes ten minutes ago, doesn't mean I can't say no ten minutes from now.

Exactly but without any signs of a struggle or an immediate attempt at departure with texts that suggests consent, she is way behind the eight ball in a trial. If those texts exist, he will be found innocent without a confession. You cant say he is 100% guilty with them and no bruises on the accuser or a direct witness.

 

[DaddyChad]

Right on all accounts.

Though if I'm the defense attorney I want those texts to exist.

The DA has no reason to provide that evidence to the GJ either, correct?

 

[DaddyChad]

IMO, if you don't make audible that "no" then it's on you. I feel like our country has gotten too far away from personal responsibility, and some people seem to confuse the terms "regret" and "rape".

Uggggh I just hate this entire situation. No matter what no one is going to come out of this a winner

Don't have sex in California then.

 

[JCP201]

From an academic standpoint, how does one prove that "a lot of rape" doesn't get reported? If the only way to track an event is by evidence that the event occurred, and reporting is that evidence, where do these numbers come from?

I'm asking because I am a law student and observer of the criminal justice system. I find this stuff terrifying yet fascinating.

At some point I had read one of these reports that suggested that most rapes/sex crimes on a college campus go unreported and the way that was determined (if memory serves) was with a survey that asked college girls something to the effect of "have you, or anyone you know, been a victim of rape or sexual assault" and "did you report it."

Now consider that for a second. If I have been raped, and I have 20 friends who know I had been either by hearsay or by me telling them, that is 21 people who could answer that question yes for only one actual event. Even if that ratio is 4 to 1, it's still terribly inflated. I would just really like to know how these numbers are created.

I can say that the book "The System" discusses athlete sex crimes in some detail. Interestingly it cited a study that said of reported incidents on division 1 college campuses, 19% of these crimes were committed by 3% of the male population. That 3% are the male athletes. That is astounding.

Also the book referenced studies that showed athletes were far more likely to be indicted for that crime than the general population but also far less likely to be convicted. It's interesting, terrible, stuff.

I don't pretend to know the answer to your question, but all you have to do is google, watch all these public service announcements. Ask your girlfriends, wives, mothers, sisters, daughters not if they have been raped, so much as if they have found themselves in scarey "situations" that they may or may not have managed to escape (or knew someone who has.)..

That said? I don't know AJ or Williams, don't know if they are innocent or guilty, but I don't know those other girls either.. I was just giving a different perspective.

EDIT: And how about those VOLS? Apparently, we are the popular kids right now with all the press. Hope we live up to the hype.

 

[MockingVol]

Don't have sex in California then.

And by that statement I ment saying consenting at first and then deciding later during intercourse or afterwords that it was a "no". If that is actually the law then I will have lost most of what little faith I still had in our legal system.

 

[MockingVol]

I don't pretend to know the answer to your question, but all you have to do is google, watch all these public service announcements. Ask your girlfriends, wives, mothers, sisters, daughters not if they have been raped, so much as if they have found themselves in scarey "situations" that they may or may not have managed to escape (or knew someone who has.)..

That said? I don't know AJ or Williams, don't know if they are innocent or guilty, but I don't know those other girls either.. I was just giving a different perspective.

EDIT: And how about those VOLS? Apparently, we are the popular kids right now with all the press. Hope we live up to the hype.

Damn straight what about them Vols! I'm incredibly excited about this upcoming season and those that follow!

This girl that is one of my best friends and that I'm currently "seeing" is a huge Vol fan, but has become extremely disillusioned by the past few years. She actually makes Catbone look like a posivol, so I'm excited for us to play some winning football so she can go back to how she used to be.

 

[daj2576]

I don't pretend to know the answer to your question, but all you have to do is google, watch all these public service announcements. Ask your girlfriends, wives, mothers, sisters, daughters not if they have been raped, so much as if they have found themselves in scarey "situations" that they may or may not have managed to escape (or knew someone who has.)..

That said? I don't know AJ or Williams, don't know if they are innocent or guilty, but I don't know those other girls either.. I was just giving a different perspective.

EDIT: And how about those VOLS? Apparently, we are the popular kids right now with all the press. Hope we live up to the hype.

I mean no disrespect, and I certainly believe rape is a problem, but I can Google Bigfoot and come up with links, so I'm not sure Google helps us. Anecdotal evidence is rarely any better, especially if I happen to know someone who claims to have seen bigfoot. (I'm not diminishing rape, Im using this illustration to show how Google is dangerous as an unquestionable resource when one looks for affirmation and not information: see also anti-Vax movement).

I'm frustrated because no one seems interested in actually defining the scale of the problem in a way that can be verified. Before that happens, we can't devise a solution. If rapes happen on college campus as much as some people suggest (using google) we need the national guard deployed to these schools as they are the most dangerous place for young women on earth. On the other hand, I know that any amount of rape is bad and that if it happens even once that's too much, but how far do we go to stop a problem when we dont seem to use anything more than feelings to define the problem to begin with?

I'm worried that were knee jerking this as we've done so many things before and that only makes the situation worse. What if it's like domestic violence? When treated as a woman's issue, almost half the cases of abuse are ignored (were finding that men are physically and emotionally abused in relationships at approaching the same rate as women). Why are men rape victims ignored or diminished as if they don't exist? Why are women who sexually abuse a male treated totally differently? (See the cases of male student/female teacher and compare that with female student/male teacher).

I'm not on a mission to convict or acquit AJ. I can make no conclusions as I know nothing about the case more than the speculation we see here. I'm just terribly frustrated that were confronted with what is a problem that no one seems to be able to define beyond general feelings that things are bad. And, it's a problem that, like most others, can probably be fixed if we simply work the problem instead of either ignoring it and hoping it goes away, or, making it seem far worse than it is.

EDIT: I'm not aiming any of my angst at you. I appreciate your perspective. I just want information, lots of it, as I want a solution.

And yes...Go Vols!

 

[Nashvegas31]

Considering none of us have a clue what happened or what evidence is available or not available.... Let's get back to football instead of blame game. That just not a good subject to talk about based on assumption

 

[daj2576]

The DA has no reason to provide that evidence to the GJ either, correct?

As a general rule the government only presents their case to the GJ.

 

[Dust10]

Considering none of us have a clue what happened or what evidence is available or not available.... Let's get back to football instead of blame game. That just not a good subject to talk about based on assumption

Yup. I'm waiting till all of the facts come out in trial to make my determination.

 

[daj2576]

Exactly but without any signs of a struggle or an immediate attempt at departure with texts that suggests consent, she is way behind the eight ball in a trial. If those texts exist, he will be found innocent without a confession. You cant say he is 100% guilty with them and no bruises on the accuser or a direct witness.

Those texts, should they exist, will likely make the victims story more difficult for the jury to understand.

I quoted some interesting stuff from the book "The System" addressing this sort of thing here:

http://www.volnation.com/forum/tenn...ear-johnson-williams-case-5.html#post11203400

 

[daj2576]

IMO, if you don't make audible that "no" then it's on you. I feel like our country has gotten too far away from personal responsibility, and some people seem to confuse the terms "regret" and "rape".

Uggggh I just hate this entire situation. No matter what no one is going to come out of this a winner

I just don't know what to think.

How do we fix this?

I don't like the idea of victim shaming, of telling a girl that shold have dressed differently or whatever to avoid it. I guess that means we have to tell every boy not to be alone with a girl, ever. If you are, record it?