Recruiting Forum Football Talk XVII

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#1,052
#1,052
DD4ME said:
Good point. Would have said Love but not sure we land him. Would love to have Reid if we get DeBord.
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If Love signed with UT, I'm thinking he would have been more a slot WR than a RB. Maybe a carry here and there, but IMO he would have never seen 20 carries over a whole season.
 
#1,055
#1,055
Darth_Shiveman said:
I think it does matter what type of offense he ran before. He'll be calling plays if he's an OC. How can it not be an issue that he's never before called plays (or drawn them up) for an offense anything like ours?

An OC needs to have a deep understanding of his playbook. Bringing in an OC without any familiarity to a scheme, handing him a playbook, and telling him to call those plays is not a recipe for success.

I'm very pro-butch, but bringing in Debord does nothing to give me more confidence in Butch. I'd hope he'd use this hire as an opportunity to, like Butch said, enhance their system and bring in some new blood that can be frank with Butch about the weak points of his offense. Hiring a yes man to run all of Butch's plays is pretty much the opposite of this.

I'll take a wait and see approach no matter who is hired, but Debord would be a troubling OC hire to me.
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You realize after typing all of this that Butch was Debord's OC at CMU? Do you know what type of offense they ran at CMU...
 
#1,057
#1,057
volatil said:
Not being a jerk here but Manning, Gruden, and Fulmer allegedly see it.
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I'm also not trying to be a jerk, but why do we give so much credence to this report? Even if true, Manning has never had to hire a coach and Fulmer lost his job over a bad hire(among other things). As far as Gruden, this is VN. We throw his name into every rumor we possibly can. Even if he talked to Butch, I have to wonder how much consideration he actually put into the conversation? "Who? DeBord? Oh yeah, nice guy. Gotta go, I'm busy doing my QB evals for the upcoming draft. Good luck."

I guess I just don't see how their opinion really carries as much weight as some are giving it. And it's not that I don't respect those guys, but I don't have them up on a pedestal either. They're just celebrities giving their opinions.
 
#1,058
#1,058
Weezer said:
I'm also not trying to be a jerk, but why do we give so much credence to this report? Even if true, Manning has never had to hire a coach and Fulmer lost his job over a bad hire(among other things). As far as Gruden, this is VN. We throw his name into every rumor we possibly can. Even if he talked to Butch, I have to wonder how much consideration he actually put into the conversation? "Who? DeBord? Oh yeah, nice guy. Gotta go, I'm busy doing my QB evals for the upcoming draft. Good luck."

I guess I just don't see how their opinion really carries as much weight as some are giving it. And it's not that I don't respect those guys, but I don't have them up on a pedestal either. They're just celebrities giving their opinions.
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I'd think Butch's evaluation with who wants to hire would be enough. The other names agreeing are just window dressing. Its Butch's job on the line. IMO he needs to hire his guy.
 
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#1,059
#1,059
Well, I see VolNation has cycled all the stages of grief:

Denial: "No way! Butch would NEVER hire a field hockey administrator to coach at the University of Tennessee. The guy hasn't called plays in seven years!"

Anger: "WTF! Hiring that clown is gonna set us back five years. Mattresses will burn!"

Bargaining: "He wouldn't be so bad in a QC position. I could be OK with him as Co-OC with Coach Z calling the plays."

Depression: "Why can't we ever make a good hire? Bielema talks CMU's HC into coming to Arkansas, A&M gets Chavis, even UGA hires a young gun from the NFL. We get stuck with a old bald white guy who cleaned swimming pools at Michigan."

Acceptance: "It's DeBord. Butch is just interviewing other people so we'll think he got the best guy instead of hiring his buddy."

BOOM: "What a steal!!! This guy coached up Tom Brady at Michigan and won the natty back in 1997!!!! He's a great fit for Butch's offense! We won't need to change a thing!!!!"
 
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#1,061
#1,061
voltime12 said:
You realize after typing all of this that Butch was Debord's OC at CMU? Do you know what type of offense they ran at CMU...
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It's CMU, does anyone know what type of offense they ran that long ago? I certainly don't have a clue. I do know Butch also spent a year with RichRod though. Just looking at the offense we run, I can see RichRod influences in it. But that's jmo.
 
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#1,062
#1,062
Darth_Shiveman said:
I think it does matter what type of offense he ran before. He'll be calling plays if he's an OC. How can it not be an issue that he's never before called plays (or drawn them up) for an offense anything like ours?

An OC needs to have a deep understanding of his playbook. Bringing in an OC without any familiarity to a scheme, handing him a playbook, and telling him to call those plays is not a recipe for success.

I'm very pro-butch, but bringing in Debord does nothing to give me more confidence in Butch. I'd hope he'd use this hire as an opportunity to, like Butch said, enhance their system and bring in some new blood that can be frank with Butch about the weak points of his offense. Hiring a yes man to run all of Butch's plays is pretty much the opposite of this.

I'll take a wait and see approach no matter who is hired, but Debord would be a troubling OC hire to me.
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Also you need to read this article Butch Jones: UT Vols' new hire won't bring 'major overhaul' to offense | Local News | Times Free Press
 
#1,063
#1,063
#1,064
#1,064
LebanonVolunteer said:
I'd think Butch's evaluation with who wants to hire would be enough. The other names agreeing are just window dressing. Its Butch's job on the line. IMO he needs to hire his guy.
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And I've not necessarily disagreed with that. I've said Butch needs to hire the guy that makes for the best staff chemistry, even though I'm underwhelmed by DeBord. I've also said he needs to be sure on his pick, because if it goes south, he will start to lose fan support. It's an ugly situation, but college football isn't always pretty.
 
#1,067
#1,067
Debord sales pitch was probably telling Butch on 4th and goal from the 1 I will line up under center in i formation instead of shotgun triple reverse. Sold
 
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#1,068
#1,068
Does Butch have an obligation to hire an OC based off of what the fanbase wants? Should the fanbase even be considered? I wonder, because that whole Peterman should start against Florida debacle was fan motivated and that didn't turn out so damn well.
 
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#1,070
#1,070
volssam said:
It was awesome; thank you sir. Hope to go back before too terribly long. But circumstances may prevent that.

*quickly backs away to make sure CABVOL doesn't leave me behind, alone with the wolves*
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Heading down in October. Wish it was tomorrow.
 
#1,071
#1,071
voltime12 said:
You realize after typing all of this that Butch was Debord's OC at CMU? Do you know what type of offense they ran at CMU...
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It's my understanding that the last year or two Debord was HC, they transitioned to a spread and Butch was OC. Butch started off as a position coach under Debord at CMU. He was OC in 2002-2003. A lot of Butch's spread knowledge came later when he coached under Rich Rod at WVU.

But let's say I'm wrong and you're right and Butch was the OC all 4 years Debord was at CMU and they ran a spread the whole time. These would be the only 4 years Debord had working with a spread and even then he was the HC, not the play caller. And they never won more than 4 games with those offenses. And when Debord went back to being an OC, he ditched it and went right back to what worked for him before (the only thing he's ever had success with as an OC), lining up in the I, pounding the rock, and above all running clock and avoiding turnovers.


So assuming you're right, we'll still be hiring a coach who has no playbook with our spread concepts, has never called plays for a spread offense, has never had success with a spread offense, hasn't been a coordinator in years (though I don't hold this or his age against him the many others do), and is above all else known for being an extremely conservative play caller.

I just don't see how this can be spun as anything but a troubling hire. All it would show me is that Butch is more concerned with bringing in staffers based on personal relationships rather than acumen.

I'll still be patient with him and take a wait and see approach if he's hired. But no amount of mental gymnastics will allow me to not be troubled by that hire.
 
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#1,072
#1,072
#1,075
#1,075
voltime12 said:
Also you need to read this article Butch Jones: UT Vols' new hire won't bring 'major overhaul' to offense | Local News | Times Free Press
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I'd already read that article. I don't know what that changes at all. I'm not saying Butch needs to complete overhaul his offense, just that some other guys besides Debord make more sense if Butch truly is trying to (as he said) "bring in someone who can enhance their system."

Debord would have to learn their system before he could even do that. It's been a decade since Butch was his OC at CMU.
 
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