Recruiting Forum Football Talk XVII

[DD4ME]

Mueller may not have many bedside manners but that dude sure seems to have the right diagnosis 100% of the time.

 

[Aesius]

I think it's funny how Dooley was (rightfully) roasted for reinventing the wheel on defense in his third year by hiring Sal and switching to the 3-4.

Butch is doing the exact opposite and hiring one of the only qualified OCs in the country who will likely keep the offense EXACTLY the same heading into year 3 and he's also being roasted for not hiring someone better/more innovative.

And yes, I get the argument that there may be better playcallers than DeBord out there, but none of those guys are coming here sans the playbook they have spent their careers developing.

Had Dooley pulled the same move in 2012 and hired literally anyone who coached a 4-3 defense, he would probably still be roaming the sidelines at Neyland.

 

[DD4ME]

I think it's funny how Dooley was (rightfully) roasted for reinventing the wheel on defense in his third year by hiring Sal and switching to the 3-4.

Butch is doing the exact opposite and hiring one of the only qualified OCs in the country who will likely keep the offense EXACTLY the same heading into year 3 and he's also being roasted for not hiring someone better/more innovative.

And yes, I get the argument that there may be better playcallers than DeBord out there, but none of those guys are coming here sans the playbook they have spent their careers developing.

Had Dooley pulled the same move in 2012 and hired literally anyone who coached a 4-3 defense, he would probably still be roaming the sidelines at Neyland.

It's true. It's the world of extremes that are so confusing and somewhat frustrating about Butch though. Is Debord really going to do what his former protege says with no question? More importantly if we lose Azzani that's a serious loss just to get a lackey. Also wth does Debord know about mobile QB's? This will be negative recruiting bonanza. Next years results will play a big impact on how this tightens up or unravels.

 

[VolGBO6]

Posted this in Kamara's thread but he is now a 5* and #1 overall juco player on 247, not the composite though. Also if you go by 247 and not the composite we have the the number 2 class and the most 5* commits with 4

 

[Aesius]

It's true. It's the world of extremes that are so confusing and somewhat frustrating about Butch though. Is Debord really going to do what his former protege says with no question? More importantly if we lose Azzani that's a serious loss just to get a lackey. Also wth does Debord know about mobile QB's? This will be negative recruiting bonanza. Next years results will play a big impact on how this tightens up or unravels.

I think that's the million dollar question.

If it plays out like that, then we essentially traded an OC with QB coaching experience for a guy with OL coaching experience. Otherwise, the results should be the roughly the same.

And if DeBord becomes OC/OL coach, does Mahoney get the axe and Sheridan get a promotion?

 

[McGeesPub]

I think it's funny how Dooley was (rightfully) roasted for reinventing the wheel on defense in his third year by hiring Sal and switching to the 3-4.

Butch is doing the exact opposite and hiring one of the only qualified OCs in the country who will likely keep the offense EXACTLY the same heading into year 3 and he's also being roasted for not hiring someone better/more innovative.

And yes, I get the argument that there may be better playcallers than DeBord out there, but none of those guys are coming here sans the playbook they have spent their careers developing.

Had Dooley pulled the same move in 2012 and hired literally anyone who coached a 4-3 defense, he would probably still be roaming the sidelines at Neyland.

Good point about Dooley, but I think you are missing the point on why people are not enamored with the DeBord hire. I think everyone is fine with keeping the offense the same, but the problem with DeBord is that he has no track record of effectively running and coaching this type of offense.

And the fact that it is "Butch's offense" isn't a mitigating factor to me. If Butch is going to be the play caller, then why not just scrap the whole OC thing, elevate ZA to the position in name only, and then find an outstanding QB coach? Playcalling is one thing, but it's also important that a coach be able to teach the kids. You're telling me a guy who has never run a spread option type of offense is going to be able to sit in film study with Josh Dobbs and teach him with a straight face? Give me a break. The fact that DeBords OC history is NOT with this type of offense is completely contrary to the point you are trying to make.

 

[ShowSomePride]

I think that's the million dollar question.

If it plays out like that, then we essentially traded an OC with QB coaching experience for a guy with OL coaching experience. Otherwise, the results should be the roughly the same.

And if DeBord becomes OC/OL coach, does Mahoney get the axe and Sheridan get a promotion?

I thought DeBord was the one who coached Brady when he was OC at Michigan?

 

[Aesius]

Good point about Dooley, but I think you are missing the point on why people are not enamored with the DeBord hire. I think everyone is fine with keeping the offense the same, but the problem with DeBord is that he has no track record of effectively running and coaching this type of offense.

And the fact that it is "Butch's offense" isn't a mitigating factor to me. If Butch is going to be the play caller, then why not just scrap the whole OC thing, elevate ZA to the position in name only, and then find an outstanding QB coach? Playcalling is one thing, but it's also important that a coach be able to teach the kids. You're telling me a guy who has never run a spread option type of offense is going to be able to sit in film study with Josh Dobbs and teach him with a straight face? Give me a break. The fact that DeBords OC history is NOT with this type of offense is completely contrary to the point you are trying to make.

Your entire second paragraph is why I think Butch will have a more hands on role in the offense. Otherwise, you're right. It doesn't make any sense to leave Dobbs in the hands of a guy with no experience with a spread/zone-read offense UNLESS the entire offense becomes some sort of group effort with Butch, DeBord, Z, and a QB coach all playing a big role.

As to why he's possibly hiring DeBord over Z: it's because DeBord is likely a much better overall coach than Z and brings more to the table. He's been around the block, has been an OC before (he can read defenses better), knows how to coach OL, etc. It's like comparing Strip to some young DL coach. The young guy may have more energy but Strip knows his stuff.

This is all conjecture at this point, of course. The way the rest of the dominoes fall if DeBord is in fact the guy will tell us much more than just envisioning a future with him as the OC.

 

[Ultra Plinian]

On the "reporting" that goes on around here:

I'm rather new on this particular forum. To be honest, I've spent quite a number of years avoiding Vol forums in general. Once upon a time I frequented Gridscape. When Grid joined Scout with RTN/Randy Moore, I posted there a bit. I also frequented Volquest/Hubbs for a short while. Then I just stopped doing the forum thing altogether, merely keeping up with news via articles, but rarely ever skimming over a forums for any particular topic.

Last year I started frequenting this place, however. Finally, I caved and signed up, started posting again. It's very easy to get caught back up in opinions and the abrupt waxing and waning of emotions on a fan forum. I must say though, I find it very interesting how such a large number of people lose their bowels over posts that are unconfirmed. I don't quite remember it being so extreme in the past. The other thing that strikes me is how some people post information like it's a news article. The only problem, of course, is they're not not posting a news report. It's merely conjecture. So then, these posts are just what they are... rumors.

But that's not enough. Then you have dozens of people proclaiming it must be fact because said poster posted it. Some posters have huge balls to post unsubstantiated information and conjecture as fact. Even when I used to have a great source and would post information a decade ago, I'd first make sure to okay it with the source; then I would still distinguish the post as being unconfirmed and rumor when I posted it. Sometimes sources are flat out wrong. I've been burned a time or two myself. But too much gets posted these days that is just way off target.

Even more ridiculous are the people who hang by a thread, either suffering complete meltdowns over something negative or experiencing orgasms over something positive, on a whim, gives a forum the feel of a real bipolar disorder. Sometimes it's outright comedic and hilarious. Often times is just sad. The waxing and waning is so fast-paced, sometimes it is very hard to take anything seriously. And perhaps that is my point.

People take rumors and hearsay way too seriously. Perhaps I'm being too much of a social critic here, but times have definitely changed since the early days of forums. I've mellowed out a lot over the years. At the end of the day, rumors be damned, it's just a sports team, regardless of how much I root for and support them. I wish some folks could just chill.

 

[PassedOutAwake]

Now that it's Monday, we're only 9 days away from NSD. Closing time.

 

[DD4ME]

Now that it's Monday, we're only 9 days away from NSD. Closing time.

Boom

 

[DD4ME]

If we keep Azzani and provide him a title upgrade and DeBord serves as more of a QC role then I will consider that a solid move. If otoh we name Debord the OC, keep Mahoney and lose Azzani that will epicly suck.

 

[rocktopper16]

If we keep Azzani and provide him a title upgrade and DeBord serves as more of a QC role then I will consider that a solid move. If otoh we name Debord the OC, keep Mahoney and lose Azzani that will epicly suck.

I'm in the same boat. I think most fans will let the sky fall for a day or two then come around to realize that it could be a solid hire.

 

[DaddyChad]

I think that's the million dollar question.

If it plays out like that, then we essentially traded an OC with QB coaching experience for a guy with OL coaching experience. Otherwise, the results should be the roughly the same.

And if DeBord becomes OC/OL coach, does Mahoney get the axe and Sheridan get a promotion?

That is the question IMO. What happens with Mahoney? Debord has a lot of OL coaching experience at different levels. If you're overhauling the staff anyways why not improve the staff overall?

I know Debord isn't the splashy name that some hoped for both the guy has a record of 52-11 as an OC with a National Title and two conference championships; give me that over an unknown coach Azzani personally if those are the choices. Maybe I'm dreaming and Butch pulls both Debord as Co OC/Oline and R Smith as Co OC/QB, heck hire Jefferson as WR coach if Azzani is on his way out.

And I know that will not happen, too unrealistically awesome. lol:

 

[RSATURDAY]

Good point about Dooley, but I think you are missing the point on why people are not enamored with the DeBord hire. I think everyone is fine with keeping the offense the same, but the problem with DeBord is that he has no track record of effectively running and coaching this type of offense.

And the fact that it is "Butch's offense" isn't a mitigating factor to me. If Butch is going to be the play caller, then why not just scrap the whole OC thing, elevate ZA to the position in name only, and then find an outstanding QB coach? Playcalling is one thing, but it's also important that a coach be able to teach the kids. You're telling me a guy who has never run a spread option type of offense is going to be able to sit in film study with Josh Dobbs and teach him with a straight face? Give me a break. The fact that DeBords OC history is NOT with this type of offense is completely contrary to the point you are trying to make.

JC people the man went 52 and 11 as the OC at UM. Remind me how that's not a track record of success with this offense. News flash, Butch's offense comes from the same principals as Debords when he coached under rich rod at UM. It's the right hire if he keeps coach Z on board even if it's a Co. OC position.

 

[DD4ME]

JC people the man went 52 and 11 as the OC at UM. Remind me how that's not a track record of success with this offense. News flash, Butch's offense comes from the same principals as Debords when he coached under rich rod at UM. It's the right hire if he keeps coach Z on board even if it's a Co. OC position.

It's true he had a decent record. Built largely on fantastic defense. They had a lot of squeekers with less talented squads. His offense was not dynamic but they played solid in other phases. In that regard the way our defensive front is shaping up you could get a HS water boy and have some success. The only way this makes sense is Butch is hell bent on the playbook being identical and Debord has agreed to run some script without putting his own influence on it because he is a run 1st guy but not QB runs.

 

[UToverload]

On the "reporting" that goes on around here:

I'm rather new on this particular forum. To be honest, I've spent quite a number of years avoiding Vol forums in general. Once upon a time I frequented Gridscape. When Grid joined Scout with RTN/Randy Moore, I posted there a bit. I also frequented Volquest/Hubbs for a short while. Then I just stopped doing the forum thing altogether, merely keeping up with news via articles, but rarely ever skimming over a forums for any particular topic.

Last year I started frequenting this place, however. Finally, I caved and signed up, started posting again. It's very easy to get caught back up in opinions and the abrupt waxing and waning of emotions on a fan forum. I must say though, I find it very interesting how such a large number of people lose their bowels over posts that are unconfirmed. I don't quite remember it being so extreme in the past. The other thing that strikes me is how some people post information like it's a news article. The only problem, of course, is they're not not posting a news report. It's merely conjecture. So then, these posts are just what they are... rumors.

But that's not enough. Then you have dozens of people proclaiming it must be fact because said poster posted it. Some posters have huge balls to post unsubstantiated information and conjecture as fact. Even when I used to have a great source and would post information a decade ago, I'd first make sure to okay it with the source; then I would still distinguish the post as being unconfirmed and rumor when I posted it. Sometimes sources are flat out wrong. I've been burned a time or two myself. But too much gets posted these days that is just way off target.

Even more ridiculous are the people who hang by a thread, either suffering complete meltdowns over something negative or experiencing orgasms over something positive, on a whim, gives a forum the feel of a real bipolar disorder. Sometimes it's outright comedic and hilarious. Often times is just sad. The waxing and waning is so fast-paced, sometimes it is very hard to take anything seriously. And perhaps that is my point.

People take rumors and hearsay way too seriously. Perhaps I'm being too much of a social critic here, but times have definitely changed since the early days of forums. I've mellowed out a lot over the years. At the end of the day, rumors be damned, it's just a sports team, regardless of how much I root for and support them. I wish some folks could just chill.

This makes perfect sense to me but the majority of the meltdown/orgasm crowd won't even read it, let alone consider the wisdom behind it.

 

[VolinArizona]

Butch is already set. Pretty clear these other interviews are just to cover protocal. I mean debord stays in Knox for the weekend and has film sessions with players but the other guys meet jones at the airport chilis bar n grille for their so called interviews. What a joke.

Saving for later just in case

 

[snowvols]

Missouri DL coach Craig Kuligowski is expected to take Illinois DC job today. They have lost their DC and DL coach.

 

[volinexile17]

Missouri DL coach Craig Kuligowski is expected to take Illinois DC job today. They have lost their DC and DL coach.

Take note Dewayne.

 

[BigZiti09]

Take note Dewayne.

Isn't Hendrix from Illinois?

 

[Wickman]

Inky Johnson (@InkyJohnson)
VOL FOR LIFE....That Power T means something to me!#VFL


Always the true representation of a VFL

 

[DaddyChad]

It's true he had a decent record. Built largely on fantastic defense. They had a lot of squeekers with less talented squads. His offense was not dynamic but they played solid in other phases. In that regard the way our defensive front is shaping up you could get a HS water boy and have some success. The only way this makes sense is Butch is hell bent on the playbook being identical and Debord has agreed to run some script without putting his own influence on it because he is a run 1st guy but not QB runs.

I mean honestly we couldn't be offensively worse than this team was this year. Our whole playbook seemed to be bubble screen left and bubble screen right for a large portion of the year. If Debord is the guy he will likely look better than Jake just by virtue of depth and talent being better. Our weakest unit will also have a coach with a lot of experience at that position coming in as OC as well; Mahoney will at bare minimum have help with the Oline.

 

[JacketVol]

I think it's funny how Dooley was (rightfully) roasted for reinventing the wheel on defense in his third year by hiring Sal and switching to the 3-4.

Butch is doing the exact opposite and hiring one of the only qualified OCs in the country who will likely keep the offense EXACTLY the same heading into year 3 and he's also being roasted for not hiring someone better/more innovative.

And yes, I get the argument that there may be better playcallers than DeBord out there, but none of those guys are coming here sans the playbook they have spent their careers developing.

Had Dooley pulled the same move in 2012 and hired literally anyone who coached a 4-3 defense, he would probably still be roaming the sidelines at Neyland.

I liked your post till I had to read the last sentence.

 

[thomaseusin]

Just so we don't lose sight here.. wanted to note that Florida just got a huge commitment yesterday and got a significant bump up the Rivals recruiting rankings..





currently tied with Appy State..