Ukraine Protests

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#6,401
#6,401
Grand Vol said:
Please provide a link that the flight path was diverted off an internationally recognized airway...
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I remember at the time there was a traffic control operator that came forward. But since the investigation has been all hush-hush and the traffic recordings were confiscated, I haven't seen anything about it recently.
 
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#6,402
#6,402
red butler said:
I remember at the time there was a traffic control operator that came forward. But since the investigation has been all hush-hush and the traffic recordings were confiscated, I haven't seen anything about it recently.
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Did the air traffic controller witness the Ukrainian aircraft fire upon the jet?

You guys. I swear. You guys.
 
#6,403
#6,403
#6,406
#6,406
volprof said:
Did the air traffic controller witness the Ukrainian aircraft fire upon the jet?

You guys. I swear. You guys.
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I didn't say anything about a Ukrainian aircraft. I don't know who shot it down. But for an investigation that should have been easy, they've been silent for some reason. It could be a diplomatic move for leverage or maybe it's to cover their tracks. Who knows.
 
#6,408
#6,408
red butler said:
I didn't say anything about a Ukrainian aircraft. I don't know who shot it down. But for an investigation that should have been easy, they've been silent for some reason. It could be a diplomatic move for leverage or maybe it's to cover their tracks. Who knows.
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Or it's just the fact that the investigations take some time to get all the facts together. It's not unusual for these investigations to make sure all bases are covered.

And of course the Rebels in Eastern Ukraine not allowing access to the crash sight likely didn't help matters.
 
#6,409
#6,409
Rasputin_Vol said:
CBS and BusinessInsider?

Just tell me what sources I can and cannot use, meanwhile, you can have your fill of MSM news media and the State Department. :crazy:
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So did either one of those say for a fact the flight plan was diverted on purpose from Kiev?

And that Global Research article sounds like an Alex Jones fantasy.
 
#6,410
#6,410
Grand Vol said:
Or it's just the fact that the investigations take some time to get all the facts together.
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The White House and the MSM was declaring it was the Eastern Ukrainian rebel an hour after it was shot down! Are you kidding me? Now we want to take the position that we need time to let the facts come out before we draw any conclusions? 7 months too late...
 
#6,411
#6,411
Grand Vol said:
So did either one of those say for a fact the flight plan was diverted on purpose from Kiev?

And that Global Research article sounds like an Alex Jones fantasy.
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It is amazing to me that the one side that doesn't buy into the White House narrative has to present evidence from selected sources and have the burden of proof placed on their shoulders. Meanwhile, the White House and Kiev can use social media and make unsubstantiated claims without having to match the same level of scrutiny. All we get from the White House supporters are that Russians lie. Well, guess what, Americans lie, also. So at the very least, we should both be wanting as much information as possible.
 
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#6,412
#6,412
Rasputin_Vol said:
It is amazing to me that the one side that doesn't buy into the White House narrative has to present evidence from selected sources and have the burden of proof placed on their shoulders. Meanwhile, the White House and Kiev can use social media and make unsubstantiated claims without having to match the same level of scrutiny. All we get from the White House supporters are that Russians lie. Well, guess what, Americans lie, also. So at the very least, we should both be wanting as much information as possible.
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So other than an unsubstantiated Twitter feed and an Alex Jones wannabe website, you have no proof that Kiev diverted the path of that flight?
 
#6,413
#6,413
Grand Vol said:
So other than an unsubstantiated Twitter feed and an Alex Jones wannabe website, you have no proof that Kiev diverted the path of that flight?
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The flight path was diverted. That can't be disputed. All of this speculation on both sides could easily be silenced if the investigation was open and upfront. And really, it is already tainted because of the fact that one of the main suspects (The Ukraine) is taking part in the investigation. How often does a defendant have the opportunity to investigate a crime they may have been a part of and leave the door open for possible evidence tampering?

Even you have to admit that Ukraine being involved in the investigation is ridiculous.
 
#6,416
#6,416
Rasputin_Vol said:
The plane was shot down. So why don't you take the White House blinders off and wait for the facts to come out before you blame Russia or the rebels?
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The plane was shot down by an SA-11 system. Being that the US doesn't use said AD system, it's very likely that the Ukrainian rebels pushed the button as the aircraft was shot down over rebel controlled area.

Take off your I think everything is a CIA conspiracy glasses and wait for the facts to come out...
 
#6,417
#6,417
I tend to roll with Occam's Razor in most things.

Given all the possible explanations, what's most likely: that the US/Ukraine/whoever coordinated a military strike against a civilian jetliner for the purpose of making Russia/pro-Russian side look bad, or that Ivan from Omsk thought the plane was a Ukrainian military jet and fired his BUK?

I'll take the latter.

9/11: what's more likely? That the US/Israel/NWO/whoever coordinated a massive terrorist attacks on US soil in order to go plunder Middle East resources (of which Afghanistan is neither Middle Eastern nor rich in resources) or that some Islamic terrorists had a field day against the Great Satan?

Once again, I'll go with the latter.
 
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#6,418
#6,418
Grand Vol said:
The plane was shot down by an SA-11 system. Being that the US doesn't use said AD system, it's very likely that the Ukrainian rebels pushed the button as the aircraft was shot down over rebel controlled area.

Take off your I think everything is a CIA conspiracy glasses and wait for the facts to come out...
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Kiev does use those systems though. And the Russians provided satellite imagery showing Kiev ADA forward deployed at the time. Again, I don't know who shot it down. My gut tells me the rebels, but it is far from cut and dry.
 
#6,420
#6,420
red butler said:
Kiev does use those systems though. And the Russians provided satellite imagery showing Kiev ADA forward deployed at the time. Again, I don't know who shot it down. My gut tells me the rebels, but it is far from cut and dry.
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See Ras? This is how you argue a point without looking like a tin foil conspiracy theorist claiming the CIA is responsible for everything.

On the post though, yes, the Ukraine does use that system as well. But there also was (allegedly) a Ukrainian Su-25 in the area around the same time. If the Ukrainian Air Force had been bombing the rebels (as they had in days past) it would only make sense that the rebels were taking shots at it (or them) trying to down the aircraft.

My guess? It was a huge mistake on someone's part since MH17 very likely was sending off the commercial transponder identifying it as a commercial aircraft. Someone had a little buck fever and got trigger happy without making sure of their target. Because there is no way on this earth the rebels would have not allowed emergency crews and crash investigators into that crash sight otherwise. And they would have immediately allowed everyone and their mother in to see what the Ukrainian Government had done.

My theory and I'm sticking to it.
 
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#6,422
#6,422
volprof said:
9/11: what's more likely? That the US/Israel/NWO/whoever coordinated a massive terrorist attacks on US soil in order to go plunder Middle East resources (of which Afghanistan is neither Middle Eastern nor rich in resources) or that some Islamic terrorists had a field day against the Great Satan?

Once again, I'll go with the latter.
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There are financial interests in Afghanistan. Primarily the Eurasian oil pipeline proposal. There's also the poppy farming. If you look at heroine production increases since the invasion it's pretty impressive.
 
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