Chris Kyle: American hero or

#652
#652
SamRebel35 said:
You are incredibly dense. I was facetiously paraphrasing the sentiments that were being used earlier to justify how Chris Kyle is a hero even if his mission was inappropriate or wrong.
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Oh yeah, now you were being facetious.:thumbsup:

gtfo
 
#653
#653
SamRebel35 said:
I'll be a fan of any brand of vehicle you find yourself under the bumper of.
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Maybe you can find a brainwashed military person like Chris Kyle that you can get to run me over. Im not "Brown" but surely you can get the government to fix that little issue.

P.S. I prefer Fords because they are as close to American made as we can get nowadays. I'm the patriotic type.
 
#654
#654
MG1968 said:
and most of the time they're just crazy

Speaking only for myself, when I was in the military, there is nothing the civilian leadership or my chain of command could have told me that would make me turn my weapon on the American people.
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A lot of assumptions here. You're assuming the training will be the same as when you served. You're assuming the candidate selection process will be the same as when you served. You assume the laws governing domestic military occupation will be the same as when you served.
 
#655
#655
therealUT said:
I realize this. And, I don't think it's as far out as you do. Situations can easily be engineered to manipulate the soldiers into thinking their actions are required for a greater purpose.
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The only situation that will apply to is if some power hungry political group has taken over control and begins using the constitution and bill of rights as toilet paper.

Then that group is f****d.
 
#656
#656
therealUT said:
I realize this. And, I don't think it's as far out as you do. Situations can easily be engineered to manipulate the soldiers into thinking their actions are required for a greater purpose.
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Possible, maybe. Where the breakdown would occur is within the NCO ranks. I could fully see O6 and above buying fully into something, a portion of the junior Os following for career purposes but a brick wall at the NCO level.
 
#657
#657
SamRebel35 said:
A lot of assumptions here. You're assuming the training will be the same as when you served. You're assuming the candidate selection process will be the same as when you served. You assume the laws governing domestic military occupation will be the same as when you served.
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And you're assuming no one will notice these things being done and take no action to stop them.
 
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#659
#659
therealUT said:
I realize this. And, I don't think it's as far out as you do. Situations can easily be engineered to manipulate the soldiers into thinking their actions are required for a greater purpose.
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There's this oath one takes at MEPS. In that oath you pledge to defend the constitution of the US against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
 
#660
#660
jp1 said:
Maybe you can find a brainwashed military person like Chris Kyle that you can get to run me over. Im not "Brown" but surely you can get the government to fix that little issue.

P.S. I prefer Fords because they are as close to American made as we can get nowadays. I'm the patriotic type.
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I'm sure your girlfriend wishes you were brown.
 
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#661
#661
From my training:

You enlisted to protect the Constitution. Not the United States as a country nor the American people:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).
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It's a bit different than the Oath of Enlistment from the Revolution:

"I _____ swear (or affirm as the case may be) to be trued to the United States of America, and to serve them honestly and faithfully against all their enemies opposers whatsoever; and to observe and obey the orders of the Continental Congress, and the orders of the Generals and officers set over me by them."
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The nation of the US was changed to the Constitution. I support that, I believe in the tattered document that nobody really cares about anymore. Also, note the "foreign and domestic" bit was added just so you can be told you took an oath to kill your countrymen if needed. Also, it was changed to obeying the orders of the President and not Congress. And also God was added, just for Ss and Gs.

Police forces certainly aren't there to protect and serve the communities they watch. They're there to enforce the laws and go full hamfist when their authority is (even legally) questioned. The military owes nothing to the American people.

All the "thanks for your service" people need to understand this.
 
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#662
#662
ETV said:
There's this oath one takes at MEPS. In that oath you pledge to defend the constitution of the US against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
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Even have the UCMJ backing up the soldier who refuses. An order is just a suggestion if it's not legal.

I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice
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#664
#664
govols/cc said:
You watched Avatar too huh?
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You can't be this stupid. Well, I take that back. Do you not think many nazi soldiers were brainwashed into thinking that eliminating the jewish race was required for a greater purpose? I'm not sure why one would choose to argue that soldiers can't manipulated into doing horrible things.
 
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#665
#665
MercyPercy said:
You can't be this stupid. Well, I take that back. Do you not think many nazi soldiers were brainwashed into thinking that eliminating the jewish race was required for a greater purpose? I'm not sure why one would choose to argue that soldiers can't manipulated into doing horrible things.
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And here we go. The old compare Nazi soldiers to US soldiers routine.

Score one for MP.
 
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#666
#666
MercyPercy said:
You can't be this stupid. Well, I take that back. Do you not think many nazi soldiers were brainwashed into thinking that eliminating the jewish race was required for a greater purpose? I'm not sure why one would choose to argue that soldiers can't manipulated into doing horrible things.
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And how many attempts were made on Hitler's life and the attempts to overthrow the ruling party? Most of the German people knew he was off the reservation.
 
#667
#667
MercyPercy said:
You can't be this stupid. Well, I take that back. Do you not think many nazi soldiers were brainwashed into thinking that eliminating the jewish race was required for a greater purpose? I'm not sure why one would choose to argue that soldiers can't manipulated into doing horrible things.
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Most civilized cultures have learned from previous mistakes in history.
 
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#668
#668
MG1968 said:
And you're assuming no one will notice these things being done and take no action to stop them.
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Read the CIA reports about CIA officers being troubled by the brutality and legality of the torture program.

I'm sure people would question the orders and try to stop them. They'd just be replaced by someone that doesn't care and be done with it.

No internal government person has stepped up to say the warrantless cellphone, radar-based home inspection and other issues are unconstitutional.

It was only by accident did we find out that LEO possess the radar systems used in Iraq/Afghanistan to search homes before entering. And they've been doing so in the US without warrants.

But, whatever. Stupid liberals trying to protect our rights.
 
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#671
#671
hog88 said:
And here we go. The old compare Nazi soldiers to US soldiers routine.

Score one for MP.
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The post I was responding to poked fun at the idea of soldiers(human beings) being manipulated into doing bad things while believing it was for the greater good. I used a very obvious example of it happening in real life.

Do I find the chances of soldiers occupying my neighborhood and shooting at me very high? Of course I don't. I also don't find the chances of terrorists occupying my neighborhood and shooting at me very high either.

But go ahead and twist my point so I'm calling US soldiers Nazis now. It's easier to just toss out crap like that instead of having an honest discussion, I imagine.
 
#673
#673
MercyPercy said:
The post I was responding to poked fun at the idea of soldiers(human beings) being manipulated into doing bad things while believing it was for the greater good. I used a very obvious example of it happening in real life.

Do I find the chances of soldiers occupying my neighborhood and shooting at me very high? Of course I don't. I also don't find the chances of terrorists occupying my neighborhood and shooting at me very high either.

But go ahead and twist my point so I'm calling US soldiers Nazis now. It's easier to just toss out crap like that instead of having an honest discussion, I imagine.
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I've been trying to, I'm glad you're willing to start.
 
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#675
#675
ETV said:
And how many attempts were made on Hitler's life and the attempts to overthrow the ruling party? Most of the German people knew he was off the reservation.
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Yeah, he was only able to kill 6 million Jews before he was stopped. Good argument.
 
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