'15 MD OT Pat Allen

#2,252
#2,252
Ericvol2096 said:
PFort



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.
 
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#2,253
#2,253
jave36 said:
He's stock fell his senior year. Going into the season he was projected higher than after the season.
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I remember him being projected as a fourth rounder or lower before his last season...thought he was underrated then. KC people aren't good at college football.
 
#2,254
#2,254
VAVolsFan2009 said:
Mahoney knows how to develop OL. If he didn't, CBJ wouldn't have him on the staff. I keep seeing VN posters saying that Kendrick performed better than other of the players. I went back and looked at the games when he played and he was soundly beaten over and over. He, like all the OL, improved as the season progressed; but he just wasn't good enough and consistent enough to start. Some of the comments are so wrong about Kerbyson and are an injustice.
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Just to make sure you are clear... I don't think I've said he performed better. I just noted that he looked much more athletic.

Fulmer would have played him until he worked through his issues. He would have schemed around weaknesses or simplified things for the player. Jones wants execution first. We don't see what he sees but based on his philosophy... I'd say that Kendrick either does have something going on off the field or else does not execute as consistently as others in practice.

I have always liked that Jones is execution focused over scheme focused. He's almost opposite end from Fulmer in that respect... which is why Cutcliffe was so critical to Fulmer's success. Cut is more like Jones.

One thing is clear. We need a talent like Allen in this class. He will get significant PT next season, although it would be much better for him to redshirt. I'm still hoping for both Allen and St. Louis to be Vols. What an injection of talent that would be.
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I really hate to say anything remotely negative about a recruit... but I honestly do not think Allen looks like a contributor as a Fr. Just looking at the way they move in video, Jones looks like a better LT prospect to me.
 
#2,255
#2,255
Nashvegas31 said:
I'm not sure what you were looking at if you thought we had 4 lineman with a RD 4 grade or better heading into 2013. That's orange KoolAid if you thought we had 4 Olineman that should have been drafted in top 4 RDs of NFL. We had 2 in James and Richardson. Richardson went undrafted due to knee issues and fact he had to redshirt his rookie year of NFL. He would have been first round based off actual play. James was given 2nd to 3rd rd grade coming in and Butch helped him become first rd pick. stone was at best always late RdS to undrafted. Fulton went where he always would have went.
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Carefully read what I was saying.

That isn't my opinion but that is certainly the perception of UT's OL.

https://www.philsteele.com/Blogs/2013/JUN13/DBJune04.html

Phil Steele, a respected and well-known CFB guy, had 3 UT OL on the 2013 All-SEC 2nd Team. 2 went undrafted and 1 was in the 6th Round. James is the only one that was drafted high and he was 3rd Team preseason All-SEC.

You don't think a guy trying to convince a high schooler to go to Y school and not X school would use a legit source like Phil Steele?

Right, wrong, good, bad, lies, truth, etc. Don't matter in recruiting. Their job is to get the guy to sign a LOI and get feet on campus.
 
#2,256
#2,256
agent|orange said:
Carefully read what I was saying.

That isn't my opinion but that is certainly the perception of UT's OL.

https://www.philsteele.com/Blogs/2013/JUN13/DBJune04.html

Phil Steele, a respected and well-known CFB guy, had 3 UT OL on the 2013 All-SEC 2nd Team. 2 went undrafted and 1 was in the 6th Round. James is the only one that was drafted high and he was 3rd Team preseason All-SEC.

You don't think a guy trying to convince a high schooler to go to Y school and not X school would use a legit source like Phil Steele?

Right, wrong, good, bad, lies, truth, etc. Don't matter in recruiting. Their job is to get the guy to sign a LOI and get feet on campus.
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Well said. Doesn't matter what our opinion is, the perception is out there and the competition is making these arguments about our OL development.
 
#2,257
#2,257
The inconsistency on VN amazes me. Many on here, including me, think Pittman was a great coach. But now some want to blame less than expected draft results on coaching. Can't have it both ways guys
 
#2,258
#2,258
sjt18 said:
Just to make sure you are clear... I don't think I've said he performed better. I just noted that he looked much more athletic.

Fulmer would have played him until he worked through his issues. He would have schemed around weaknesses or simplified things for the player. Jones wants execution first. We don't see what he sees but based on his philosophy... I'd say that Kendrick either does have something going on off the field or else does not execute as consistently as others in practice.

I have always liked that Jones is execution focused over scheme focused. He's almost opposite end from Fulmer in that respect... which is why Cutcliffe was so critical to Fulmer's success. Cut is more like Jones.

I really hate to say anything remotely negative about a recruit... but I honestly do not think Allen looks like a contributor as a Fr. Just looking at the way they move in video, Jones looks like a better LT prospect to me.
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Allen's biggest asset is his enormous wingspan. With arms like this:

3340326.jpg


You don't need to have as much lateral movement and emphasis on impeccable technique with long arms as a guy with shorter arms. You can't coach wingspan. You either have it or you don't. Jones, in comparison:

7_1034912.jpg


Tyron Smith, who is just about the premier LT in the NFL right now:
Tyron-Smith-350x350.jpg
36 1/8" arm length where the typical arm length for an NFL LT is 34".

However, on the other side of the coin is the other banner-bearer for a premier LT and that's Joe Thomas with his 32.5" arms. However, he's 6'7 and exceptionally athletic for that height and not letting his height be a leverage against him... as well as having impeccable technique.

So while arm length and height are definitely 2 measurements that there are definitely "Prototypes" for in the NFL for OTs, and especially LTs, they're not something that is an exclusionary. DEs, especially WDEs, are getting faster and more and more athletic. For an LT, that means you either have freakishly long arms or you are more athletic to counter.

OT is more about measurables and technique whereas OG is more about physicality and being mean. This is why Jones feels like more of an OG to me because that dude is physical and mean as a junkyard dog.

In the end if Jones possesses great technique and lateral movement, he can make up for what might be a shortcoming in how far his "range of motion" is. Given we play a ZBS, he needs great technique/movement or arm length. He doesn't seem to have the arm length for LT.

That's just me, though. Feel free to "armchair scout/coach" me away.
 
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#2,259
#2,259
Volinnooga said:
The inconsistency on VN amazes me. Many on here, including me, think Pittman was a great coach. But now some want to blame less than expected draft results on coaching. Can't have it both ways guys
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Wait, what?

We're saying that opposing coaches would say Pittman put these guys in great position to be drafted, and this was the case, and then Mahoney came in and ruined their 2012 projected stock with poor coaching.

This isn't the truth as we took hulking 320-340lb OL that were great in a power-run Pro Style and tried to transform them into much leaner (whatever we run, exactly) OL. That is neither here nor there on the recruiting trail.
 
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#2,261
#2,261
Volinnooga said:
The inconsistency on VN amazes me. Many on here, including me, think Pittman was a great coach. But now some want to blame less than expected draft results on coaching. Can't have it both ways guys
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Their performance under Pittman had them considered as 5 of the top OL in the SEC. Their performance under the new staff had one of them considered good, the other 4 not so much. You don't see how other schools could use that negatively against us?
 
#2,263
#2,263
Catbone said:
Jones does have a noticeably smaller wingspan
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Well, notice I used arm length and not wingspan. NFL Combine doesn't measure wingspan as, frankly, it doesn't matter.

That's due to having a huge chest and broad shoulders doesn't help you get your hands on a WDE and maintaining contact/control if he spins/swims/etc.

There is a reason these measurements are taken.
 
#2,271
#2,271
agent|orange said:
Carefully read what I was saying.

That isn't my opinion but that is certainly the perception of UT's OL.

https://www.philsteele.com/Blogs/2013/JUN13/DBJune04.html

Phil Steele, a respected and well-known CFB guy, had 3 UT OL on the 2013 All-SEC 2nd Team. 2 went undrafted and 1 was in the 6th Round. James is the only one that was drafted high and he was 3rd Team preseason All-SEC.

You don't think a guy trying to convince a high schooler to go to Y school and not X school would use a legit source like Phil Steele?

Right, wrong, good, bad, lies, truth, etc. Don't matter in recruiting. Their job is to get the guy to sign a LOI and get feet on campus.
Click to expand...

Butch could counter with Jashon Robertson being a Freshman All American.
 
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#2,272
#2,272
VAVolsFan2009 said:
Mahoney knows how to develop OL. If he didn't, CBJ wouldn't have him on the staff. I keep seeing VN posters saying that Kendrick performed better than other of the players. I went back and looked at the games when he played and he was soundly beaten over and over. He, like all the OL, improved as the season progressed; but he just wasn't good enough and consistent enough to start. Some of the comments are so wrong about Kerbyson and are an injustice.

One thing is clear. We need a talent like Allen in this class. He will get significant PT next season, although it would be much better for him to redshirt. I'm still hoping for both Allen and St. Louis to be Vols. What an injection of talent that would be.
Click to expand...

This post needs more love. Anything not a part of the majority idea here has become ignored.

I saw the same thing - Kendrick had moments but struggled the same as everybody else.
 
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#2,275
#2,275
I said this before in another thread. Former Vol lineman who knows his stuff said he would hate to be a lineman in this offense because his entire life he was a hand in the dirt guy. It is an extremely difficult scheme to learn. But, for guys used to the opposite scheme is it almost impossible in a time frame that spans one year.
BUT, if you are used to it or once you really learn it, it is something that is beautiful to watch. He said give it time and you will see.

Someone told me what those big 5 we are talking about actually went through with all the changes, that by their senior year, which was Jones'first, they were just interested in getting through it and getting to the NFL. They never really bought in. I can't blame them but the new scheme did not help them more than bad coaching. Unless you want the turnover in coaching that Dooley caused to be considered.
 
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