Recruiting Forum: Football Talk XV

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#10,651
#10,651
volssam said:
AxKJ549.gif



Disclaimer edit: i don't know what movie this is from. And I can't read his lips. So I don't know if he curses here or not. I don't. So apologies if this guy does. Not that most of you probably care ha. but For my conscience' sake.
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SMH sam....Planes, trains and automobiles
 
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#10,655
#10,655
butchna said:
How much of that is his recruiting? Wouldn't shock me if they pull that CO DC crap...he is an alumnus tho. Wonder if it's a Hail Mary for Tuttle?
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Elder recruited Tuttle not Thigpen..... I think it's just people looking for ties and picking best recruiters...Thigpen isn't a DC and he probably realizes that.

Anytime sites put names out they just start looking at who used to play there and coaches now or who used to coach there or who has worked with the HC and things like that. It's best not to take initial list seriously. It's the revised ones that make you worry if they are still on there.
 
#10,656
#10,656
Nashvegas31 said:
Elder recruited Tuttle not Thigpen..... I think it's just people looking for ties and picking best recruiters...Thigpen isn't a DC and he probably realizes that.

Anytime sites put names out they just start looking at who used to play there and coaches now or who used to coach there or who has worked with the HC and things like that. It's best not to take initial list seriously. It's the revised ones that make you worry if they are still on there.
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Thigpen has supposedly been recruiting 2016 guys, so I would definitely not want to lose him this year.
 
#10,657
#10,657
KokoBVol said:
SMH sam....Planes, trains and automobiles
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Ahhhh I've heard of that movie. But never seen it. I'm 31. And enjoy movies that are actually good. Haha.

It seems like movies that are classics or that people try to force on me telling me how amazing they are I tend to not like as much.
 
#10,658
#10,658
DD4ME said:
I don't think anyone is sounding a 3 alarm fire even if a couple guys leave. Even guys like Hendrix and Scott. That said there are enough "rumors" from solid posters to discuss the subject.
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Discussion is what this place is for. I was just trying to keep the roof on. Saying things like things are a tad sour behind the scenes and Butch has trouble retaining quality backups are a bit of a stretch at this point I think. That's all.
 
#10,659
#10,659
jave36 said:
Not with the team. Not saying they're officially gone, but they're not participating in team activities, which gives credence to the rumor of transfer.
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I gotcha, and it's fitting info. This place wouldn't be near what it is without rumors. I was just trying to keep the train from derailing. Some folks like to do that. :)
 
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#10,660
#10,660
volstopfan14 said:
Helm may have played in every game, but he never got the ball. I felt like Jake put him in a weird role. He was never an in-line tight end in high school. When we split him out as a slot receiver he literally never had the ball thrown his way.

He definitely has talent. But I couldn't blame him too much if he didn't like Jake.
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Uh, he caught a nice 2-point conversion against Georgia on Peyton Manning's play?

I realize that was just one instance, but I keep seeing this Xbox mentality when it comes to analyzing play calling and play execution. Again, this is not how real-life football works. Unless Jake has drawn up the play so that it's designed to go to one certain player against a certain look, the QB has multiple reads available to him on passing plays. A young guy like Dobbs is going to go where he's comfortable with the ball, aka he's going to the one or two receivers with which he has the best chemistry and the most trust. That trust only comes from long hours of running plays over and over again and becoming comfortable with how a receiver runs his route, gains separation, catches the ball, etc. Dobbs goes to Pig a lot, because he implicitly trusts Pig to be open when & where he's supposed to, catch the ball, and perhaps bail him out if necessary. Worley's guys were North, Pig, and to some extent Josh Smith. Regardless of who coaches may deem the No. 1, No. 2, and No. 3 receivers, every QB has his own list, and they'll go where they feel most comfortable with it.

So, most of the time, Jake doesn't "target" anyone. He calls a pass play based on the defense and Josh executes it to whoever is open when he's ready to throw the ball. If a receiver isn't getting the ball, it's because Josh judges that he either isn't open, isn't in good position to catch it, is double-covered, or simply isn't a reliable option in that situation.

This isn't really pointed at you specifically. I see it on here all the time, and it drives me wild.
 
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#10,661
#10,661
WriterVol said:
Discussion is what this place is for. I was just trying to keep the roof on. Saying things like things are a tad sour behind the scenes and Butch has trouble retaining quality backups are a bit of a stretch at this point I think. That's all.
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If Scott, Hendrix, and Helm left i'd say you have some sour grapes because all of those guys saw the damn field in some form or fashion.
 
#10,662
#10,662
UT = Checkmate said:
Thigpen has supposedly been recruiting 2016 guys, so I would definitely not want to lose him this year.
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Of course not. I was just saying Tuttle isn't tied to Thigpen.

Thigpen to UNC DC is not something I find to be realistic. His name just happened to be on a quick hot board someone put together. Not time to panic yet.

Jason Jones at Ole Miss makes more sense than Thigpen. He is co DC at Ole Miss and has coached with Fedora and their OC in past.
 
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#10,663
#10,663
volssam said:
Ahhhh I've heard of that movie. But never seen it. I'm 31. And enjoy movies that are actually good. Haha.

It seems like movies that are classics or that people try to force on me telling me how amazing they are I tend to not like as much.
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Worth watching.
 
#10,664
#10,664
volssam said:
Ahhhh I've heard of that movie. But never seen it. I'm 31. And enjoy movies that are actually good. Haha.

It seems like movies that are classics or that people try to force on me telling me how amazing they are I tend to not like as much.
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Pfft. Kids.

Planes, Trains, and Automobiles is a classic. Just because YOU don't like it.......
 
#10,670
#10,670
NashVOL93 said:
Uh, he caught a nice 2-point conversion against Georgia on Peyton Manning's play?

I realize that was just one instance, but I keep seeing this Xbox mentality when it comes to analyzing play calling and play execution. Again, this is not how real-life football works. Unless Jake has drawn up the play so that it's designed to go to one certain player against a certain look, the QB has multiple reads available to him on passing plays. A young guy like Dobbs is going to go where he's comfortable with the ball, aka he's going to the one or two receivers with which he has the best chemistry and the most trust. That trust only comes from long hours of running plays over and over again and becoming comfortable with how a receiver runs his route, gains separation, catches the ball, etc. Dobbs goes to Pig a lot, because he implicitly trusts Pig to be open when & where he's supposed to, catch the ball, and perhaps bail him out if necessary. Worley's guys were North, Pig, and to some extent Josh Smith. Regardless of who coaches may deem the No. 1, No. 2, and No. 3 receivers, every QB has his own list, and they'll go where they feel most comfortable with it.

So, most of the time, Jake doesn't "target" anyone. He calls a pass play based on the defense and Josh executes it to whoever is open when he's ready to throw the ball. If a receiver isn't getting the ball, it's because Josh judges that he either isn't open, isn't in good position to catch it, is double-covered, or simply isn't a reliable option in that situation.

This isn't really pointed at you specifically. I see it on here all the time, and it drives me wild.
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The 2 point conversion is a great example of what we'd miss if we lose Helm. I see a few people saying "He was our 3rd TE, not a big deal, etc..." Fact of the matter is, he has talent. That was a great play to go up and get the ball. A few other times we tried to get him the ball in a similar spot and the defense covered it. So even though he didn't put up numbers, he has raw talent and we would miss him if he left, IMO.

As for your post, I'm not saying it's Jake's fault specifically. Fact of the matter is, Helm played a ton of snaps and only caught 6 balls. This wasn't a 2013 Josh Smith issue either where he was just dropping stuff. The ball wasn't coming his way. All I'm saying is that could be a cause for frustration, fair or not.

If we want to get into the reason behind Helm not getting the ball, part of it was just that he wasn't getting open. That's not the coaches or Dobbs fault, but it still can easily result in frustration when he's not doing as well as he hoped.

Secondly, not sure if it's coaches or Dobbs, but we seem to have a problem with throwing over the middle. That means outside receivers are getting more touches than inside receivers and tight ends.

Finally, I have a bit of a problem with the scheme we run. I don't think the passing concepts are as good as they could be. So I think the coaches could be putting Helm in a better position to get open and make a play. There are exceptions. The 2 point play is a great example. There was also a nice fake screen we ran later in the season that had Helm fake a block then slip down the seam and that got us some big gains. But our base passing schemes are a fundamental problem, IMO.
 
#10,671
#10,671
What I do like is that Butch is doing all of the things that lesser programs question title contenders about. Get shirts, transfers, over recruiting, coach speak, over recruiting, etc. As long as he starts winning like one too all is good. For the fans, players, and recruits.
 
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#10,672
#10,672
Nashvegas31 said:
Of course not. I was just saying Tuttle isn't tied to Thigpen.

Thigpen to UNC DC is not something I find to be realistic. His name just happened to be on a quick hot board someone put together. Not time to panic yet.

Jason Jones at Ole Miss makes more sense than Thigpen. He is co DC at Ole Miss and has coached with Fedora and their OC in past.
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Thigpen's TIED to everybody...just because he's not the primary, don't think Shy's phone number ain't on Thig's cell.
 
#10,674
#10,674
NashVOL93 said:
Uh, he caught a nice 2-point conversion against Georgia on Peyton Manning's play?

I realize that was just one instance, but I keep seeing this Xbox mentality when it comes to analyzing play calling and play execution. Again, this is not how real-life football works. Unless Jake has drawn up the play so that it's designed to go to one certain player against a certain look, the QB has multiple reads available to him on passing plays. A young guy like Dobbs is going to go where he's comfortable with the ball, aka he's going to the one or two receivers with which he has the best chemistry and the most trust. That trust only comes from long hours of running plays over and over again and becoming comfortable with how a receiver runs his route, gains separation, catches the ball, etc. Dobbs goes to Pig a lot, because he implicitly trusts Pig to be open when & where he's supposed to, catch the ball, and perhaps bail him out if necessary. Worley's guys were North, Pig, and to some extent Josh Smith. Regardless of who coaches may deem the No. 1, No. 2, and No. 3 receivers, every QB has his own list, and they'll go where they feel most comfortable with it.

So, most of the time, Jake doesn't "target" anyone. He calls a pass play based on the defense and Josh executes it to whoever is open when he's ready to throw the ball. If a receiver isn't getting the ball, it's because Josh judges that he either isn't open, isn't in good position to catch it, is double-covered, or simply isn't a reliable option in that situation.

This isn't really pointed at you specifically. I see it on here all the time, and it drives me wild.
Click to expand...

If that is true, it is time to fire Jake. A young QB may mess it up, but every QB is taught to go throw their progressions on every pass play. If he isn't doing that it is on the QB and up to Jake to fix it. But if your comments are correct it explains why they are 65th in total passing.
 
#10,675
#10,675
volssam said:
Ahhhh I've heard of that movie. But never seen it. I'm 31. And enjoy movies that are actually good. Haha.

It seems like movies that are classics or that people try to force on me telling me how amazing they are I tend to not like as much.
Click to expand...

:eek:hmy::no:
 
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