Recruiting Forum: Football Talk XV

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#7,651
#7,651
Butch holds all the chips right now. Our program's success is tied to him being here for at least 2-3 more years to reload the roster. If he leaves right now, we're only incrementally better off than we were in Dec. 2012.

That's why you pony up the money to keep him. It's not an ideal situation for Hart and the AD, but it's where we're at.
 
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#7,652
#7,652
DD4ME said:
But would you kick yourself if he went to UM for a difference of 500k? I would. Past that don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you.
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I would suggest that its all about context in re comparison to Dooley.

Dooley lost more games than his predecessor in year one, and less again than he did in year one in year 2. Dooley was also 11-14, where Jones is 11-13 with one game pending. Jones could very well end this year 12-13, which is, in fact, NOT the same record as Dooley.

Jones, on the other hand, won the same number of raw games as his predecessor in year one, but doubled the amount of SEC wins, and had a win over a ranked opponent. Dooley played 5 ranked opponents in his final year to Jones's 7 in his first. They had the same win loss total but Jones had the harder schedule.

In year two, Jones added another SEC win, bringing his total to five, or the exact number of SEC wins in two years that Dooley had in 3.

Not only that, but in relation to talent, at this point Dooley was seven games below what talent predicted if you count the bowl game. Jones is 4 games (Saban is 3 below over the same time period). 2 games a year is within the standard deviation of performance in relation to talent. Jones's two game under-performance this year also puts him in the same performance category as Malzahn, Sumlin and Miles.

If one actually accepts the argument that the records are the same with one game left to be played, this is a case of where being 'the same' is not analogous to 'equal.'
 
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#7,653
#7,653
glichtenwalter said:
We need to start a FFA thread for people recovering from the horrors of the FF and the pain it has caused in their lives. Careers lost, relationships ruined, and health deteriorated all due to the agony that is the FF.

Glad to have you here in the RF Face! :salute:
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Glicht - you simply make my day sometimes. Please keep it up. :)
 
#7,654
#7,654
Dust10 said:
I'm the same way that I never got involved in the site much until I found the recruiting forum.

Also following recruiting has helped me become a lot more knowledgeable about our team because I know the history of our players. Makes being a Vol fan more fun than I thought possible.
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It really does. Especially when you see players like Barnett make such a big impact. It's cool to follow that type of story from when he was in HS, then see the fruition of the staff and player's hard work. It beats endless polls about if Butch sucks or not :puke5:

glichtenwalter said:
We need to start a FFA thread for people recovering from the horrors of the FF and the pain it has caused in their lives. Careers lost, relationships ruined, and health deteriorated all due to the agony that is the FF.

Glad to have you here in the RF Face! :salute:
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Thanks! I enjoy the posts here quite a bit. Even LV on occasion
 
#7,655
#7,655
Face said:
It really does. Especially when you see players like Barnett make such a big impact. It's cool to follow that type of story from when he was in HS, then see the fruition of the staff and player's hard work. It beats endless polls about if Butch sucks or not :puke5:




Thanks! I enjoy the posts here quite a bit. Even LV on occasion
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Ha. :)
 
#7,656
#7,656
LA Vol said:
That's true. But CBJ keeps preaching to the fans about patience and the process, so he needs to practice what he preaches. UT has been more than fair, and he's well-compensated. Recruit well and win next year, and the big money will come. If he can't be patient and follow the process, then he'll lose credibility. A raise, yes; an extra mil, no. JMO.
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Nailed it IMO.

They can step the raises on an extension based on expectations for future performance.
 
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#7,657
#7,657
daj2576 said:
I would suggest that its all about context in re comparison to Dooley.

Dooley lost more games than his predecessor in year one, and less again than he did in year one in year 2. Dooley was also 11-14, where Jones is 11-13 with one game pending. Jones could very well end this year 12-13, which is, in fact, NOT the same record as Dooley.

Jones, on the other hand, won the same number of raw games as his predecessor in year one, but doubled the amount of SEC wins, and had a win over a ranked opponent. Dooley played 5 ranked opponents in his final year to Jones's 7 in his first. They had the same win loss total but Jones had the harder schedule.

In year two, Jones added another SEC win, bringing his total to five, or the exact number of SEC wins in two years that Dooley had in 3.

Not only that, but in relation to talent, at this point Dooley was seven games below what talent predicted if you count the bowl game. Jones is 4 games (Saban is 3 below over the same time period). 2 games a year is within the standard deviation of performance in relation to talent. Jones's two game under-performance this year also puts him in the same performance category as Malzahn, Sumlin and Miles.

If one actually accepts the argument that the records are the same with one game left to be played, this is a case of where being 'the same' is not analogous to 'equal.'
Click to expand...

But Dooley is a bearded man now. That makes a difference of my perception of him. Had he grown that beard sooner he might still be the HC of our Vols.
 
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#7,658
#7,658
Aesius said:
Butch holds all the chips right now. Our program's success is tied to him being here for at least 2-3 more years to reload the roster. If he leaves right now, we're only incrementally better off than we were in Dec. 2012.

That's why you pony up the money to keep him. It's not an ideal situation for Hart and the AD, but it's where we're at.
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I respectfully disagree. I think Butch's agent wants us to think he has more chips than he does. That's how the game is played. You bluff and call and see who blinks first.

Butch and UM aren't a great fit. Logic tells you he's down their wish list. Butch is too much like Brady Hoke. UM is too much like UT was two years ago. So Butch's agent is playing us to see if he can scare us into ponying up before UM hires someone else. I hope we don't blink.
 
#7,660
#7,660
I don't know that we should be hanging on to the money figure so much as where he is paid compared to other coaches. When all is said and done this season, I expect every coach will be wanting a raise after stoops, freeze and mcelwain salaries out there. Especially if muschump makes $2 mil as a DC. CBJ could make 3.75 and still be in the bottom of the SEC, just above stoops and mcelwain.
 
#7,661
#7,661
The Breakerboy said:
Yes sir!!! Bring them on! Can't wait to see our defense. Hope we get matched up with West Virginia. Sutton versus White is my type of matchup to watch.
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Not really a white fan. Saw Kevin white from TCU completely shut him down. Easy win for Cam

Pig vs Karl Joseph would be epic for my local boys . Karl Joseph has so many blow up hits it's ridiculous. Google his highlights. Loved his game in HS. A tad undersized.
 
#7,662
#7,662
I don't think the average fan cares what Butch is paid. I don't understand why everybody here does.

It's not my money. Pay him $20 million a year for all I care, just don't word the contract so he can't be terminated if he doesn't fulfill expectations.

Also, coaching salaries are going through a period of inflation. 4 million now is what 3.5 was before the SEC network went 24/7.
 
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#7,667
#7,667
eazyTD said:
@ChrisVernonShow: Been told the Liberty Bowl requested in-order - Tenn, Ark, LSU. now up to SEC. opponent will be Texas or West Virginia
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i haven't seen anyone talk about a bowl that would match up Texas A&M with Texas... perhaps the Texas Bowl. I think that would be good for college football after all the back and forth with those two recently.
 
#7,668
#7,668
you said:
i haven't seen anyone talk about a bowl that would match up Texas A&M with Texas... perhaps the Texas Bowl. I think that would be good for college football after all the back and forth with those two recently.
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It's been said that the SEC would block A&M from playing Texas in a bowl. A&M doesn't want to give up their recruiting advantage to Texas by possible losing on the field.
 
#7,669
#7,669
daj2576 said:
I would suggest that its all about context in re comparison to Dooley.

Dooley lost more games than his predecessor in year one, and less again than he did in year one in year 2. Dooley was also 11-14, where Jones is 11-13 with one game pending. Jones could very well end this year 12-13, which is, in fact, NOT the same record as Dooley.

Jones, on the other hand, won the same number of raw games as his predecessor in year one, but doubled the amount of SEC wins, and had a win over a ranked opponent. Dooley played 5 ranked opponents in his final year to Jones's 7 in his first. They had the same win loss total but Jones had the harder schedule.

In year two, Jones added another SEC win, bringing his total to five, or the exact number of SEC wins in two years that Dooley had in 3.

Not only that, but in relation to talent, at this point Dooley was seven games below what talent predicted if you count the bowl game. Jones is 4 games (Saban is 3 below over the same time period). 2 games a year is within the standard deviation of performance in relation to talent. Jones's two game under-performance this year also puts him in the same performance category as Malzahn, Sumlin and Miles.

If one actually accepts the argument that the records are the same with one game left to be played, this is a case of where being 'the same' is not analogous to 'equal.'
Click to expand...
I follow and for now I can still see the forest despite all the trees planted. At 4 million my vision starts getting blurry. It could be one of those sour grapes contracts quick with say 6-7 wins next year. With the way our line has looked I think Butch would be jumping the shark anything north of 3.75 with fan and booster good will. Just my 2 cents.
 
#7,672
#7,672
govols09 said:
I don't think we match up well with WVU
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We actually do tbh. Their D cannot stop a solid run game, and they do not have the best pass D out there either. Joseph is a stud tho btw!! I think our Oline would do well against them, as long as they didn't too confused by the 3-3-5. Our Dline would do well against their oline, Maggitt and Barnett would have a big day and Trickett would not have time to hit there big receivers. wVU is -20 in turnovers, so create some to's and we could actually roll them. Oh, and their special teams, is beyone HORRIBLE!!
I do, however, think we would lose in a shootout if their O is clicking.
 
#7,675
#7,675
Dust10 said:
It's been said that the SEC would block A&M from playing Texas in a bowl. A&M doesn't want to give up their recruiting advantage to Texas by possible losing on the field.
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Well that lame. I just lost respect for A&M
 
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