'15 MD OT Pat Allen

#554
#554
LebanonVolunteer said:
Some #'s for ya.

2013 UT rushing was about 2000 yards. 2000 yards passing. Mahoney at OL coach.

2012 UT rushing was about 1800 yards. 4000 yards passing. Pittman at OL coach.


:detective:
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We did rush for the 2nd most yards in 15 years or so last year, but we also had a NFL line. Bajakian worked a lot of magic last year to be able to rush for 2000+ yards with two avg RBs and no QB play. The problem is, last years o-line wasn't Mahoney's. That was the most talent Mahoney has ever had to work with, and still, many said our o-line last year was overrated/soft. Isn't it Mahoney's job to teach these guys how to get a proper push on 3rd and 1 situations? As good as our o-line was last year, we did struggle to convert first downs in short yardage situations sometimes. Sound familiar?

Facts are, Mahoney is not loading us down with 4-5 star elite OL. We aren't recruting the "James" type tackles under Mahoney. I don't understand how people can not question his OL recruiting. At what point will it be ok to complain about the OL recruiting? Come 2016, people aren't going to be accepting excuses for this OL. This staff has put all faith in Blair/Kendrick being the LT the next two years. Neither of which, could beat out a former walk-on this year. There are real reasons to be concerned about our o-line going forward. If Mahoney fails to coach these OL prospects up, most of these prospects don't have the raw talent to cover up his failures as a coach. Mahoney will either coach great technique to these smaller OT prospects, or we are going to get exposed like we are right now. We also, as a collective unit, have to become much stronger over the offseason.

It should also be noted, that many of us understand that Butch and co. didn't create these depth problems. However, many of us are questioning the process we are taking to fix the o-line, especially when you see our recruiting in all other positions by this staff.
 
#556
#556
keckjm said:
We did rush for the 2nd most yards in 15 years or so last year, but we also had a NFL line. Bajakian worked a lot of magic last year to be able to rush for 2000+ yards with two avg RBs and no QB play. The problem is, last years o-line wasn't Mahoney's. That was the most talent Mahoney has ever had to work with, and still, many said our o-line last year was overrated/soft. Isn't it Mahoney's job to teach these guys how to get a proper push on 3rd and 1 situations? As good as our o-line was last year, we did struggle to convert first downs in short yardage situations sometimes. Sound familiar?

Facts are, Mahoney is not loading us down with 4-5 star elite OL. We aren't recruting the "James" type tackles under Mahoney. I don't understand how people can not question his OL recruiting. At what point will it be ok to complain about the OL recruiting? Come 2016, people aren't going to be accepting excuses for this OL. This staff has put all faith in Blair/Kendrick being the LT the next two years. Neither of which, could beat out a former walk-on this year. There are real reasons to be concerned about our o-line going forward. If Mahoney fails to coach these OL prospects up, most of these prospects don't have the raw talent to cover up his failures as a coach. Mahoney will either coach great technique to these smaller OT prospects, or we are going to get exposed like we are right now. We also, as a collective unit, have to become much stronger over the offseason.

It should also be noted, that many of us understand that Butch and co. didn't create these depth problems. However, many of us are questioning the process we are taking to fix the o-line, especially when you see our recruiting in all other positions by this staff.
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Maybe some fans would rather see Mahoney's OL next year continue to struggle so then when CBJ does decide to make a change, those fans can tell us why the new OL coach needs 2-3 years to bring in "his guys". :)
 
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#558
#558
I'm not sure what everyone is expecting. Maybe more talent at the tackle spot?

I'm using Rivals as the source. Pittman and others before used mostly 3 and 4 stars to build their lines. Same method Mahoney is using now.

These 5 star lineman are few and far between. Also, most of these offensive lineman need a redshirt year before they can be truly effective. A line full of Mahoney's recruits is expecting a tad much at this point.

Maybe he should be developing better. That's a legit concern.
 
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#559
#559
VeryBest said:
I'm not sure what everyone is expecting. Maybe more talent at the tackle spot? I'm using Rivals as the source. Pittman and others before used mostly 3 and 4 stars to build there lines. Same method Mahoney is using now. These 5 star lineman are few and far between. Also, most of these offensive lineman need a redshirt year before they can be truly effective. A line full of Mahoney's recruits is expecting a tad much at this point. Maybe he should be developing better. That's a legit concern.
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I don't think many are complaining about the quality of the committed lineman but there doesn't seem to be a prototypical Left tackle amongst them and it doesn't seem we're a player for any either. 3,4, or 5 stars.
 
#560
#560
VeryBest said:
I'm not sure what everyone is expecting. Maybe more talent at the tackle spot? I'm using Rivals as the source. Pittman and others before used mostly 3 and 4 stars to build there lines. Same method Mahoney is using now. These 5 star lineman are few and far between. Also, most of these offensive lineman need a redshirt year before they can be truly effective. A line full of Mahoney's recruits is expecting a tad much at this point. Maybe he should be developing better. That's a legit concern.
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The development is my biggest concern. The recruiting I can live with as IMO other coaches can help with that. Of course if recruits see UT OL kids not progressing, it becomes a recruiting concern if the recruits don't think a coach can make them better. A lot of guys on the OL this year getting their 1st serious work. As I have said I expected some growing pains. I expected to see them give up more sacks. My issue is I expected them to get better as the year went on and these "green" guys got more reps in. IMO that has not happened at all.
 
#561
#561
Catbone said:
Damnnnn
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As Vols4us just pointed out, it's not all due to inexperince either. We keep making the same mental errors on our o-line. Did you see Lane last night call out an o-line change when Dobbs was fixing his cleats? Are you joking? Many people said Worley and Crowder weren't calling out o-line changes, but rather Bajakian was doing it. What I think is, Worley/Crowder suck at reading defenses, and thus, kept making the wrong line changes every game. An OC can only due so much. A RsJr C and a Sr QB have to be able to make simple adjustments at the line. This also makes the Thomas move to RT even more head scratching considering we don't have a long term C solution, because obvioulsly Wiesman is not any better at calling out line changes or Lane wouldn't have been doing it last night for him. The inexperince, lack of fixing the same mental errors, and being physically outmatched has killed us all year on the o-line.
 
#562
#562
InVOLuntary said:
I don't think many are complaining about the quality of the committed lineman but there doesn't seem to be a prototypical Left tackle amongst them and it doesn't seem we're a player for any either. 3,4, or 5 stars.
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Seems they banked on Drew being that guy.
 
#563
#563
VeryBest said:
I'm not sure what everyone is expecting. Maybe more talent at the tackle spot?

I'm using Rivals as the source. Pittman and others before used mostly 3 and 4 stars to build their lines. Same method Mahoney is using now.

These 5 star lineman are few and far between. Also, most of these offensive lineman need a redshirt year before they can be truly effective. A line full of Mahoney's recruits is expecting a tad much at this point.

Maybe he should be developing better. That's a legit concern.
Click to expand...

It's the lack of quality LT prospects that's concerning, along with current o-line development.

Guard wise we are in good shape. It's just the LT position that really concerns me. RT is still a question mark as well, but hopefully Jones, Kendrick, etc will fill that void. I think in 2016 we will have to go JuCo again to have quality depth at OT going into 2016.
 
#564
#564
Dust10 said:
In 2012, Bray refused to take a sack by throwing the ball away at the first sign of trouble. Not complaining about that, btw.
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Sad part is, in 2014 the QBs haven't even had enough time to throw the ball away to avoid a sack most of the time.
 
#565
#565
keckjm said:
As Vols4us just pointed out, it's not all due to inexperince either. We keep making the same mental errors on our o-line. Did you see Lane last night call out an o-line change when Dobbs was fixing his cleats? Are you joking? Many people said Worley and Crowder weren't calling out o-line changes, but rather Bajakian was doing it. What I think is, Worley/Crowder suck at reading defenses, and thus, kept making the wrong line changes every game. An OC can only due so much. A RsJr C and a Sr QB have to be able to make simple adjustments at the line. This also makes the Thomas move to RT even more head scratching considering we don't have a long term C solution, because obvioulsly Wiesman is not any better at calling out line changes or Lane wouldn't have been doing it last night for him. The inexperince, lack of fixing the same mental errors, and being physically outmatched has killed us all year on the o-line.
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If Dobbs was behind him and DW was looking up, he may not have seen him kneel down, and so Marlin changed the call. Think you may be reading too much into this.
 
#566
#566
Wickman said:
Mahoney is the weak link. Great person, average coach and recruiter at best
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Everyone knew the OL was going to be a weak link coming into the season. Not many OLs start two true freshmen let alone replace the whole line from the prior year. Pass protection in 2010-2011 was pretty darn bad when we started Stone, James, etc. up front as true freshmen. Just trying to add perspective.
 
#567
#567
LynxVol said:
Everyone knew the OL was going to be a weak link coming into the season. Not many OLs start two true freshmen let alone replace the whole line from the prior year. Pass protection in 2010-2011 was pretty darn bad when we started Stone, James, etc. up front as true freshmen. Just trying to add perspective.
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I get that but many see next year's line and don't think it'll be much better. And recruiting for a left tackle, the most important line position is non-existent.
 
#568
#568
A lot of you are giving 17 year olds way too much credit when it comes to their reason for choosing a school. They don't see enough "player development" from the OL coach?!? Please...lol. It's mostly math. We have good OL committed but we don't have a prototypical LT committed. Well there are very few top level high school recruits that fit the mold of prototypical LT. This cycle we just have not fit with one of them. We already have a very good tackle prospect for 2016.
 
#571
#571
InVOLuntary said:
I get that but many see next year's line and don't think it'll be much better. And recruiting for a left tackle, the most important line position is non-existent.
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One would hope Blair is ready to go for next year as a potential LT solution. You're right on the recruiting aspect. I hope we can get an answer there come early February. Injuries on the line didn't help us this year. But, I'm more focused on the fact that someone is calling a coach a bad coach based on what he had to work with this year. Not trying to give him a pass, but I think many coaches would struggle with what we had, not to mention playing guys out of their natural position.
 
#573
#573
LynxVol said:
One would hope Blair is ready to go for next year as a potential LT solution. You're right on the recruiting aspect. I hope we can get an answer there come early February. Injuries on the line didn't help us this year. But, I'm more focused on the fact that someone is calling a coach a bad coach based on what he had to work with this year. Not trying to give him a pass, but I think many coaches would struggle with what we had, not to mention playing guys out of their natural position.
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I can agree with all this but another thing that causes me to take pause is the line didn't seem to progress at all this year.
 
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#574
#574
Sherlock Volmes said:
Seems like you love seeing us strike out on tackle prospects a little too much man. You keep saying we have no chance with every tackle we are recruiting and in every thread. We need a little positivity every once in a while.
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I just tend to call em like I see em. Sometimes it's positive and sometimes it's not. I've said all along had UTs coaches stopped pushing for Richmond when he picked Ole Miss they would have stood a better chance to get another quality OT to flip to UT. Tough to sell a kid on being "the guy" when they see CBJ standing on the sideline of DR's HS games.

NC State just railroaded UNC. Had CBJ turned his focus to William Sweet months ago, IMO UT stood a chance.
 
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