ISIS Takes Control of Mosul

#226
#226
Gramps said:
CBS This Morning reported ISIS is showing off the US Military Equipment they have due to members of Iraqi Army abandoning them and fleeing.

McCain was being interviewed yesterday by one of the news networks He said several time the surge worked, we had the war won. He suggested Obama send David Petraeus back to Iraq. It is past time for McCain to retire.
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The surge! The surge!
 
#227
#227
volprof said:
The most disastrous, catastrophic US foreign policy decision since at least Vietnam (and long-term, it may prove even worse) was the decision to go to war in Iraq. For the life of me, I still can't figure out why the Bush administration thought this was a good idea. Absolutely disastrous and an embarrassment to our nation.

Some people gripe about how our national power has fallen recently. Well, guess what: it began here.
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Dick Cheney (along with many others) made a **** ton of money. That was the real reason behind the war in Iraq. To say that Halliburton was/is ripping off the US government is a serious understatement. I'm sure a lot of you are familiar with the details, but it was disgusting while I was there.
 
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#228
#228
Gramps said:
CBS This Morning reported ISIS is showing off the US Military Equipment they have due to members of Iraqi Army abandoning them and fleeing.

McCain was being interviewed yesterday by one of the news networks He said several time the surge worked, we had the war won. He suggested Obama send David Petraeus back to Iraq. It is past time for McCain to retire.
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McCain is accused by many as being a RINO. He is better classified as a DINOsaur.
 
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#229
#229
The Ron Mexico said:
Dick Cheney (along with many others) made a **** ton of money. That was the real reason behind the war in Iraq. To say that Halliburton was/is ripping off the US government is a serious understatement. I'm sure a lot of you are familiar with the details, but it was disgusting while I was there.
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I don't doubt it. Honestly, although Bush's presidency was basically as disastrous as the current president's, I think he was a fairly well-intentioned man. I think; could be wrong. Just not very intelligent.

Now, Dick Cheney: one of the most evil men to ever have influence in the Oval Office. Something that has always frightened and baffled me is a highly intelligent man who is yet still evil. One would think the two characteristics were mutually exclusive but, as history demonstrates, they are not unfortunately.
 
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#230
#230
volprof said:
I don't doubt it. Honestly, although Bush's presidency was basically as disastrous as the current president's, I think he was a fairly well-intentioned man. I think; could be wrong. Just not very intelligent.
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So a man that graduated from both Harvard and Yale is not intelligent? Really?

Earning an MBA from an Ivy League institution but isn't intelligent? Really?

I think you've been taken in by the leftist propaganda of the mainstream media my friend. He may not have been the most eloquent speaker in the world, but ignorant he was not. But got blasted on practically a daily frequency about how "dumb" he was. I'd dare any of those idiots in the media to start comparing brain pans with the man.

And I dare you to compare resumes with his.
 
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#231
#231
rjd970 said:
The surge! The surge!
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You are so ignorant of the political situation in the Middle East it's almost disheartening. You have zero clue about what went on, what goes on and what is happening right now in Iraq or any other area. So I really wish you would just be quiet and not comment any more. Other than "well, we shouldn't have invaded!" comments you have offered nothing of substance to this discussion whatsoever and you don't even know the history of what you are talking about.

Your ignorance is bliss as I stated before and is truly amazing that you won't even take the time to attempt to educate yourself on everything that went on prior to the invasion all the way back to 1990 and the events leading to the invasion. But you would rather the US military wear itself out enforcing "No Fly Zones" and continually rotate troops into the Gulf rather than just get it over with. Again, I think the conduct after the war certainly could have been conducted differently. But again, your ignorance of everything that transpired prior to is just simply astounding. Perhaps it's not ignorance, but omission of facts that are inconvenient to your stance of sitting around banging your bongo drum while singing John Lennon's Give Peace a Chance.

So you'll say "well, none of this would have happened had we not invaded." Not even realizing the roots of ISIS were in place before we invaded and actually started in Syria. And furthermore, was dismantled as a fighting force during the surge operations in 2007. Yet seven years later, it's because we invaded they are lopping off heads of Iraqi policemen and military members. Yeah, that makes sense.

Please do yourself a favor and just stop commenting on things you are truly ignorant of.
 
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#232
#232
volprof said:
And I get the "you either go and blow everything up or you don't go" argument, but what exactly were we going to do with bin Laden and the gang? I just think the situation was too iffy to say definitively that we shouldn't have acted at all or that we should have blown them all sky high. I think it was somewhere in the middle.

Just my two cents, and that's the last I'll say about it.
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The attacks on 9/11 did not necessitate a response in force. The attacks were largely due to internal security and intel failures in the gov't. Further, at no time did the gov't ever believe that further attacks even approaching the same magnitude would recur, they definitely would not have a frequent recurrence. Thus, a forceful response was not necessary to the defense of the nation.

Moreover, middle ground was available if we simply wanted to hold those most responsible for the attacks to account. We could have agreed with the Taliban offer to hand Bin Laden over to an international tribunal. We refused the offer and resorted to a war that has now cost the US over ten years of committed resources, thousands of soldiers killed, tens of thousands more wounded to the point where they will never live a life approaching normal, and tens of thousands of innocent civilians killed in Afghanistan.

You are right to say that we ought not have just turned Afghanistan into a parking lot; in fact, we ought not have ever placed one US boot on the ground in that country and, unless we were conducting operations simply to help those oppressed, extorted, and exploited in Afghanistan to get out of Afghanistan, we ought to have left the entire region alone.

A handful of men working with box-cutters and taking over jumbo-jets is not a call to war. It is, rather, a call to individuals to not let your plane get hijacked by a few dudes with box-cutters.
 
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#233
#233
alexmanu said:
Iran have lent a hand by sending their 'elite' guard (albeit barely any troops). You have to think about the political ramifications going forward. If no intervention were to occur (I'm talking purely aerial support) then Iraq will be fractured. It will be split into areas controlled by Jihadists like ISIS and the remaining sections of Iraq would have to rely on Iran which only strengthens their control of that region. I don't want Iran or Jihadists to control any part of Iraq.
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Not sure I give a ****. But, you do, and you seem to support such movements. I'm assuming you are of military age. Are you dropping by the local recruiting office this week? Or, are you merely going to call for the use of lethal force but, since there are 'people for that', you are going to sit on the sidelines?

I'm guessing you will sit on the sidelines and let others, others who might not support what you are calling for, deal with the physical and mental anguish that accompanies combat (whether the combat is aerial or on the ****ing ground).
 
#234
#234
therealUT said:
You are right to say that we ought not have just turned Afghanistan into a parking lot; in fact, we ought not have ever placed one US boot on the ground in that country and, unless we were conducting operations simply to help those oppressed, extorted, and exploited in Afghanistan to get out of Afghanistan, we ought to have left the entire region alone.
Click to expand...

Agree and disagree. I think at a far lower scale, assistance to the Northern Alliance, raids on terror training camps, perhaps one central base or two for logistical support. But nothing on the current scale or what we had.

The problem we faced was the fact we tried to shove democracy into these people's faces. Afghanistan is purely tribal in nature and has been for a long time. The Afghan people were not ready for Communism as the Russians figured out or Democracy as we are figuring out. They need to want it themselves and make that choice on their own instead of us saying "this will be done." They understand the tribal leadership as that's all they have ever known and will continue until they are ready to embrace a modern Republic.

So I supported and continue to support OEF on a far less scale than how it was conducted. The entire premise of the conflict was was made for SOF and air power applications rather than large scale boots on the ground save securing COBs and MOBs.
 
#235
#235
therealUT said:
Not sure I give a ****. But, you do, and you seem to support such movements. I'm assuming you are of military age. Are you dropping by the local recruiting office this week? Or, are you merely going to call for the use of lethal force but, since there are 'people for that', you are going to sit on the sidelines?

I'm guessing you will sit on the sidelines and let others, others who might not support what you are calling for, deal with the physical and mental anguish that accompanies combat (whether the combat is aerial or on the ****ing ground).
Click to expand...

I am in the Army reserves (Territorial army) and more than happy to serve my country if they come calling. Don't assume things about me.
 
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#236
#236
Grand Vol said:
You are so ignorant of the political situation in the Middle East it's almost disheartening. You have zero clue about what went on, what goes on and what is happening right now in Iraq or any other area. So I really wish you would just be quiet and not comment any more. Other than "well, we shouldn't have invaded!" comments you have offered nothing of substance to this discussion whatsoever and you don't even know the history of what you are talking about.

Your ignorance is bliss as I stated before and is truly amazing that you won't even take the time to attempt to educate yourself on everything that went on prior to the invasion all the way back to 1990 and the events leading to the invasion. But you would rather the US military wear itself out enforcing "No Fly Zones" and continually rotate troops into the Gulf rather than just get it over with. Again, I think the conduct after the war certainly could have been conducted differently. But again, your ignorance of everything that transpired prior to is just simply astounding. Perhaps it's not ignorance, but omission of facts that are inconvenient to your stance of sitting around banging your bongo drum while singing John Lennon's Give Peace a Chance.

So you'll say "well, none of this would have happened had we not invaded." Not even realizing the roots of ISIS were in place before we invaded and actually started in Syria. And furthermore, was dismantled as a fighting force during the surge operations in 2007. Yet seven years later, it's because we invaded they are lopping off heads of Iraqi policemen and military members. Yeah, that makes sense.

Please do yourself a favor and just stop commenting on things you are truly ignorant of.
Click to expand...

And why should any of this have concerned us in the first place?
 
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#237
#237
therealUT said:
The attacks on 9/11 did not necessitate a response in force. The attacks were largely due to internal security and intel failures in the gov't. Further, at no time did the gov't ever believe that further attacks even approaching the same magnitude would recur, they definitely would not have a frequent recurrence. Thus, a forceful response was not necessary to the defense of the nation.

Moreover, middle ground was available if we simply wanted to hold those most responsible for the attacks to account. We could have agreed with the Taliban offer to hand Bin Laden over to an international tribunal. We refused the offer and resorted to a war that has now cost the US over ten years of committed resources, thousands of soldiers killed, tens of thousands more wounded to the point where they will never live a life approaching normal, and tens of thousands of innocent civilians killed in Afghanistan.

You are right to say that we ought not have just turned Afghanistan into a parking lot; in fact, we ought not have ever placed one US boot on the ground in that country and, unless we were conducting operations simply to help those oppressed, extorted, and exploited in Afghanistan to get out of Afghanistan, we ought to have left the entire region alone.

A handful of men working with box-cutters and taking over jumbo-jets is not a call to war. It is, rather, a call to individuals to not let your plane get hijacked by a few dudes with box-cutters.
Click to expand...

I can live with this. Assuming the Taliban really would have made good on the promise. I guess we'll never know though.
 
#238
#238
therealUT said:
Not sure I give a ****. But, you do, and you seem to support such movements. I'm assuming you are of military age. Are you dropping by the local recruiting office this week? Or, are you merely going to call for the use of lethal force but, since there are 'people for that', you are going to sit on the sidelines?

I'm guessing you will sit on the sidelines and let others, others who might not support what you are calling for, deal with the physical and mental anguish that accompanies combat (whether the combat is aerial or on the ****ing ground).
Click to expand...

alexmanu said:
I am in the Army reserves (Territorial army) and more than happy to serve my country if they come calling. Don't assume things about me.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, TRUT. It happens to the best of us sometimes. :)
 
#239
#239
Grand Vol said:
Agree and disagree. I think at a far lower scale, assistance to the Northern Alliance, raids on terror training camps, perhaps one central base or two for logistical support. But nothing on the current scale or what we had.

The problem we faced was the fact we tried to shove democracy into these people's faces. Afghanistan is purely tribal in nature and has been for a long time. The Afghan people were not ready for Communism as the Russians figured out or Democracy as we are figuring out. They need to want it themselves and make that choice on their own instead of us saying "this will be done." They understand the tribal leadership as that's all they have ever known and will continue until they are ready to embrace a modern Republic.

So I supported and continue to support OEF on a far less scale than how it was conducted. The entire premise of the conflict was was made for SOF and air power applications rather than large scale boots on the ground save securing COBs and MOBs.
Click to expand...

And I guess I can live with this too. Like I said before though, all ancient history now.
 
#241
#241
Grand Vol said:
So a man that graduated from both Harvard and Yale is not intelligent? Really?

Earning an MBA from an Ivy League institution but isn't intelligent? Really?

I think you've been taken in by the leftist propaganda of the mainstream media my friend. He may not have been the most eloquent speaker in the world, but ignorant he was not. But got blasted on practically a daily frequency about how "dumb" he was. I'd dare any of those idiots in the media to start comparing brain pans with the man.

And I dare you to compare resumes with his.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah. This post. Yes, he was dumb. Having a wealthy family can do many things for you. I mean, seriously, the two most disastrous events for America over the last quarter century or more happened under his watch. Don't try to sell him as some sort of adwizard. Like I said, I'm sure he was well-intentioned though. And I mean this. I really do think the man meant well. He just had too many bad eggs around him. Cough cough. Dick Cheney. Cough cough.
 
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#243
#243
I see the President is really concerned and working hard on this Iraqi mess:



obama_golf1.jpg
 
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#244
#244
volprof said:
Oh yeah. This post. Yes, he was dumb. Having a wealthy family can do many things for you. I mean, seriously, the two most disastrous events for America over the last quarter century or more happened under his watch. Don't try to sell him as some sort of adwizard. Like I said, I'm sure he was well-intentioned though. And I mean this. I really do think the man meant well. He just had too many bad eggs around him. Cough cough. Dick Cheney. Cough cough.
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So again, having the ability to get an MBA makes one dumb? I'm not saying he was a Rhodes Scholar, but at the same time, he was able to pass a Masters course and by the way, be the only President in history to have an MBA.

Daddy can do a lot of things for you like get you into school. But unless you are implying that:

A: Harvard just passes anyone in their Masters program
B: Daddy Bush paid professors under the table to pass his kid
C: Combinations of the above

Your argument that he is "dumb" doesn't hold water. However, the leftist media would love for you to think he was an idiot.
 
#246
#246
Yankee_Vol said:
Yea and I'm a part time mechanic with what I learned from the internet, can I work on your car? :)
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:huh: Fail to see how stating i'm in the Army reserves is akin to learning to be a mechanic from the internet. You do realise that you have to train and pass physical and mental tests to be in the reserves? It's becoming more and more popular in the UK especially due to the fact that the reserve is being expanded while the regular force is cut and as a result increased monetary compensation for training and work is being given to reservists, attracting more individuals to the role.
 
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#247
#247
volprof said:
No, you don't. And this is the reason why my question still stands unanswered.
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Your answer is in my question.

I understand a lot of people didn't want OIF to go forward. But many if not most of the people don't understand the background with the whole thing and the events that led to OIF. Most don't understand as Tn Buck pointed out that the direct path to OIF was actually started during Clinton's watch (a fact that a lot of the left would love to be able to bury in history). And more still don't realize the events that set OIF into motion went back all the way to the 80s believe it or not. (there's something else to blame Reagan for)

Too many people ignore the history of that entire situation and selectively pick and choose facts they want to use. Again, the conduct of the aftermath was not conducted in the best manner. I'll be the first to admit that as I saw the waste myself. But people need to move past the "Bush lied, people died" nonsense and see that OIF was inevitable no matter who was in charge. Whether it was removing Saddam from power as we did or helping behind the scenes and having to intercede in the turmoil of the aftermath (and I would imagine it wouldn't look much different than now) the fact that our involvement in a conflict in that region was all but guaranteed.

And before you say it, I understand your reluctance to commit to foreign adventures no matter what. Unfortunately, that complex political model is far more detailed and involves domestic politics just as much as it does foreign entanglements.
 
#250
#250
alexmanu said:
:huh: Fail to see how stating i'm in the Army reserves is akin to learning to be a mechanic from the internet. You do realise that you have to train and pass physical and mental tests to be in the reserves? It's becoming more and more popular in the UK especially due to the fact that the reserve is being expanded while the regular force is cut and as a result increased monetary compensation for training and work is being given to reservists, attracting more individuals to the role.
Click to expand...

I didn't realize you were British. Disregard, as you don't get it. :hi:
 
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