ISIS Takes Control of Mosul

#176
#176
Vol737 said:
Iranian? Or Iraqi? Haven't seen a report about Iran but I've been away all day.
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Apparently Iran's Revolutionary Guard is and has been operating in Iraq in small numbers the last couple years. This was news to me as well. I think they've mostly been aiding the Iraqi govt. because it's Shiite dominated.
 
#179
#179
Velo Vol said:
Why should Americans fight when the Iraqis turn and desert?
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This! This is probably what bothers me the most about this whole Iraq issue right now. All those years and all that training we offered these morons, as well as all the equipment only so they could tuck tail and run when the shlt hit the fan, WTF?!
I guess you can train a coward but you ultimately can't take the coward out of them. The entire middle east has been poisoned with defeatism.
 
#180
#180
coug said:
This! This is probably what bothers me the most about this whole Iraq issue right now. All those years and all that training we offered these morons, as well as all the equipment only so they could tuck tail and run when the shlt hit the fan, WTF?!
I guess you can train a coward but you ultimately can't take the coward out of them.The entire middle east has been poisoned with defeatism.
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We must have taught them well.
 
#182
#182
volprof said:
So just hold 'em at the border after pushing them out.

What do you do if after pushing them out they keep firing missiles at you?

Maybe we just aren't on the same page and are talking about completely different things. I'm not really sure.
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Then you destroy their projection platforms and immediately return home. None of this requires occupation and rebuilding.
 
#183
#183
@RAGreeneCNN BREAKING: #Iran Revolutionary Guards fighting INSIDE #Iraq in support of Baghdad govt against ISIS, Iraq official tells CNN
 
#184
#184
Odds Iraq remains an intact single state for the next five years?

Methinks we're going to see a lot of tribal fighting.
 
#185
#185
rjd970 said:
Who's to blame, the guy that screwed up cleaning the mess, or the guy that made the mess in the first place?

My opinion, there is some share of the blame to both guys if Iraq falls. Shouldn't have been there to begin with, and should have been managed better after we were.
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Yep
 
#187
#187
According to news reports Sharia Law was declared in Mosul. Not sure if it's the same story in other Iraqi cities or why just Mosul. God help the women/girls or Christians.
 
#188
#188
Vol737 said:
According to news reports Sharia Law was declared in Mosul. Not sure if it's the same story in other Iraqi cities or why just Mosul. God help the women/girls or Christians.
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This is why we need to be drilling and producing here as fast as we can. Get out of the ME and let them implode on their own religious zealotry.
 
#190
#190
Obama says:

Will not be sending troops back in but will offer other forms of help
 
#192
#192
therealUT said:
Then you destroy their projection platforms and immediately return home. None of this requires occupation and rebuilding.
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If I stated at any point that the role of the military was occupying and rebuilding, then I'll promptly apologize if anyone can point this out to me in one of my previous posts. I don't think I ever said that though.

I think what started this inquiry was my suggesting that perhaps warfare should not approached with a universal strategy; in other words, we don't necessarily just need to bomb the hell out of people all the time anymore. By people, I mean civilians, not the direct enemy, although I recognize that sometimes civilians can either be or can empower the enemy. But not always.

Now, if an opposing nation demonstrates a commitment to attacking and killing your own civilians, then, assuming the primary ethical duty of a govt. as an entity entrusted by the people to protect it foremost, I suppose it's appropriate to wage a full-scale war of attrition against the other and its populace. I don't know, however, that the Afghan War ever quite qualified, especially considering that neither the Taliban nor al-Qaeda represented a civilian populace.

And I get the "you either go and blow everything up or you don't go" argument, but what exactly were we going to do with bin Laden and the gang? I just think the situation was too iffy to say definitively that we shouldn't have acted at all or that we should have blown them all sky high. I think it was somewhere in the middle.

Just my two cents, and that's the last I'll say about it.
 
#194
#194
Vol737 said:
According to news reports Sharia Law was declared in Mosul. Not sure if it's the same story in other Iraqi cities or why just Mosul. God help the women/girls or Christians.
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They've already publicly executed 17 civilians on one street in Mosul.

For the life of me, I can't understand hating other people that much. I suppose if someone did to my family and my dogs/cats (no difference between them and my family in my mind) what these militants are doing to other people, it's entirely possible that I could hate them just as much in return. Anything's possible. It's still just hard imagining that level of hate for other human beings.
 
#196
#196
Heard on BBC World radio this afternoon on the drive home that the Ayatollah urged men to take up the Shiite cause in Iraq for his Friday prayers national address.

Fellas, we might be witnessing the redrawing of the map over the next decade or so. Due to the language/ethnic barrier, Shiite Iraq might not join Iran, but I could see the splintering of current Iraq. Honestly, maybe it's best. Who knows.

Makes you wonder how the hell Saddam kept it together all those years. Be more ruthless than the other ruthless guys? Hard to imagine how someone could be more ruthless than groups like ISIS though.
 
#197
#197
volprof said:
They've already publicly executed 17 civilians on one street in Mosul.

For the life of me, I can't understand hating other people that much. I suppose if someone did to my family and my dogs/cats (no difference between them and my family in my mind) what these militants are doing to other people, it's entirely possible that I could hate them just as much in return. Anything's possible. It's still just hard imagining that level of hate for other human beings.
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The executions are more to do with fear and control than hate.
 
#198
#198
hog88 said:
The executions are more to do with fear and control than hate.
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This is probably true, particularly when looking at individual cases. However, it has to be an overwhelming amount of hate (combined with ideology obviously, but I think the two go hand-in-hand) that motivates one to be willing to commit his self to such actions in the first place, regardless of individual acts of execution. Fear tactics yes, but you don't just go out and saw people's heads off (videotaped for propaganda or not) if you aren't motivated by some sort of incomprehensible hate. Well, at least incomprehensible for me.
 
#199
#199
volprof said:
This is probably true, particularly when looking at individual cases. However, it has to be an overwhelming amount of hate (combined with ideology obviously, but I think the two go hand-in-hand) that motivates one to be willing to commit his self to such actions in the first place, regardless of individual acts of execution. Fear tactics yes, but you don't just go out and saw people's heads off (videotaped for propaganda or not) if you aren't motivated by some sort of incomprehensible hate. Well, at least incomprehensible for me.
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I don't know how an individual could possibly hate another individual that they personally don't know enough to do that. I can understand the act being done as a means of intimidation.

Never have understood the desire to kill for religion. I would bet those pulling the strings are NOT doing so for a religious cause. They are doing it for power, control and ultimately riches. The lowly fighters may be under the delusion of a religious calling, there is a reason the mullahs and other leaders over there keep their people uneducated.
 
#200
#200
Gramps said:
It is up to Iraqis to solve their own problems
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But but...I thought old uncle Joe & Mr. no clue Obama were saying that Al Qaeda & terrorists were on the run!! Osama is dead & GM is alive...blah blah blah. They were running around spiking the political football in victory if I recall about two years ago. They must have "forgotten" about the other thousands & thousands of fighters that were still there & not to quit the war.
 
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