Dave Hart on the football program...

#101
#101
volgrad500 said:
This place seems to repeat the same scenarios over and over and over… we get a coach and everything he does is perfect-he can do no wrong and is comparable to the absolute elite in coaching.
In my opinion, I don't think we know what Butch is yet. He had one nice win last year, he had several absolute ass whippings. If you say he shoulda had another nice win but for a fumble, you have to say he damn near went to overtime at home against a really poor team. He's recruited well one year, but it was a big year for in state talent and legacies, plus an inordinately high amount of scholarships.
All of this is to say, in my honest opinion, we don't really know what we have with Butch. Small steady progress this year will make me feel better, and then being competitive with everyone in 2015 will tell the tale. If the wheels were to absolutely come off this season, it could have serious consequences for '15 and '16, as well as on his ability to succeed here.
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I agree. The proof is in the game day results. But, you do have to admit he seems a lot more organized than Dooley and certainly recruiting much better. I do want him to show me something on game day. Hasn't yet but for the USC win.
 
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#102
#102
Sandvol said:
Well, the first thing he did is come out and make a statement that we have all the time in the world and we really didn't have all the time in the world because all the other schools who were looking for coaches were aggressively going after them and then Hart looked like an idiot with both Gundy and Strong in my opinion. He ended up making us look like a second tier school.

Her name was Debbie Jennings. She probably was a little insubordinate but she was a died in the wool Vol and loyal to Pat. He seemed like an insecure little man to me the way he handled it.
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Did you see USC's coaching search? It made Hart look like Einstein.
Would you want a coach with dementia on the sideline?
 
#106
#106
Sandvol said:
I agree. The proof is in the game day results. But, you do have to admit he seems a lot more organized than Dooley and certainly recruiting much better. I do want him to show me something on game day. Hasn't yet but for the USC win.
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Not true. Dooley "looked" extremely organized when he arrived. He brought a very good young DC in and retained Kiffin's OC. His FIRST class in as much as he gets credit for it was much better than Jones' first class in as much as you fault him for it. His first staff included guys who were NFL coaches in the past.

His "look of being organized" may have obscured his personal lack of competence.

I know that this doesn't fit the "Dooley sucks" narrative that we're supposed to have around here... but there were reasons to think Dooley might work out after his first year with the program.

The first big turning point was when Hunter went down vs UF. You could see Dooley deflate on the sideline. It went downhill from there. The slide picked up momentum with the UK loss... a little more with DR's dismissal... and then the whole '12 season.

He's still to blame and deserved to be fired. But he didn't look that much worse after one year than Jones from an organization standpoint. At this point going into his year two, UT was returning two great Fr LB's, a talented young OL, a 1000 yd rusher, Bray, and two outstanding WR's. A LOT of people were optimistic.
 
#107
#107
sjt18 said:
Not true. Dooley "looked" extremely organized when he arrived. He brought a very good young DC in and retained Kiffin's OC. His FIRST class in as much as he gets credit for it was much better than Jones' first class in as much as you fault him for it. His first staff included guys who were NFL coaches in the past.

His "look of being organized" may have obscured his personal lack of competence.

I know that this doesn't fit the "Dooley sucks" narrative that we're supposed to have around here... but there were reasons to think Dooley might work out after his first year with the program.

The first big turning point was when Hunter went down vs UF. You could see Dooley deflate on the sideline. It went downhill from there. The slide picked up momentum with the UK loss... a little more with DR's dismissal... and then the whole '12 season.

He's still to blame and deserved to be fired. But he didn't look that much worse after one year than Jones from an organization standpoint. At this point going into his year two, UT was returning two great Fr LB's, a talented young OL, a 1000 yd rusher, Bray, and two outstanding WR's. A LOT of people were optimistic.
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Take out Kiffin's guys and you have a turd sandwich.
 
#108
#108
92volalum said:
Cbj best start winning some games or u think ticket sales r bad now. Its time to start showing potential if he wants to keep the fans around.
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Good grief. I laughed so hard I had milk running out of my nose. Then I realized you are serious. Everybody who knows anything knows that 2015 will be the year we are competitive nationally.
 
#109
#109
Hart & CBJ both have my support unless I see some sort of collapse by 118 on the playing field. No heat from me if we were to go 5-7 this season for either fellow. That said with all the athletes and kids that have graduated from UT that have gone on to have great careers as sports administrators, let Hart be the last AD ever hired by UT that is not a graduate. Heck we even had another thread where Reggie McKenzie's son is being heavily recruited by CBJ, with Reggie a fixture in the Raiders front office. Why not Reggie or someone similar getting the nod from here on out after Hart? I expect CBJ to do well and Hart not to be under pressure to leave, but he's no spring chicken and some photographs he looks like death eating a cracker so we need a plan b go to guy or gal. You can't tell me one of Pat Summit's protege's couldn't run the Athletic Dept? GMAFB!
 
#110
#110
Voltillyafall said:
Good grief. I laughed so hard I had milk running out of my nose. Then I realized you are serious. Everybody who knows anything knows that 2015 will be the year we are competitive nationally.
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Actually, anyone who knows anything would tell you that if we go 5-7 again this year, we're not likely to be competing nationally in 2015 or anytime soon.
 
#111
#111
92volalum said:
2015 will be the year for what? A nc or 7 wins.. If butch stinks it up this year 2015 may be harts last year..

Cbj best start winning some games or u think ticket sales r bad now. Its time to start showing potential if he wants to keep the fans around.
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Fans like you are the reason it's so hard to convince a coach to come here. CBJ has 1 year in here and just finished with our best recruiting class in probably 10 years. I can understand falling off from a clueless coach like Dooley, but CBJ knows how to build a program and will if we give him 3 or 4 years.
 
#112
#112
Jeepkuntry said:
Fans like you are the reason it's so hard to convince a coach to come here. CBJ has 1 year in here and just finished with our best recruiting class in probably 10 years. I can understand falling off from a clueless coach like Dooley, but CBJ knows how to build a program and will if we give him 3 or 4 years.
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Yeah, I'm sure the coaches are more scared of the fans who pump millions of dollars into the program than they are of the AD who failed at his last AD gig and the boosters who signed off on hiring the likes of Derek Dooley.
 
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#113
#113
sjt18 said:
Huh? You have a corrupted memory. Were there some good players? Yes. But not much if any more than what Jones inherited from Dooley. With the departure of Berry, Crompton, Scott, etc in 2009, Dooley was left with what from Fulmer?

Those teams primarily had upperclassmen recruited by Fulmer. A big part of why he was let go was that his recruiting effectiveness had dropped off so badly. The trajectory of the program when Fulmer was fired is EXACTLY where it ended up. Kiffin nor Dooley could pull it up... but it was Fulmer that put the program in the ditch.

Fulmer had his day. They were great years. Proud years. But both he and UT held on too long.

If you are that badly undermanned then it is very difficult to "adjust". You can use gameplanning to stay in games for awhile but eventually you can't hang.

By the time he was fired, Dooley's issues went far beyond being unable to finish.



I am for Jones getting at least a 3 year shot. I want him to succeed. I agree that he needs to win 6-8 games this year AND that that is a reasonable expectation if he's a quality coach. But if you are going to complain that Dooley's teams didn't show up for the 2nd half against teams like Bama and Oregon... then how exactly can you give Jones a pass when his teams didn't show up for the 1st qtr?
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I agree recruiting on Fulmers part was a problem I wouldnt agrue that, but would mention that just the shock of having a really bad really with Fulmer record wise is what pushed him out of UT. Could he have came back the next year and performed well probably.

The corruption of the program being led by Kiffin, followed by Dooley, and the change of AD's are all legitimate reasons to give Dooley and even Butch some pitty. But I, on the other hand, dont know all the information on AD's and dont know all the facts and do not even want to act like I do as many of the people on VN do. Also, people on Volnation by far do not want to hear any more excuses on why it could be a long hard road.

To answer your question, quite frankly you have a good point why does Jones gets a BYE on such a killing from Oregon and Bama? All I can say is its more hope than anything, I give him a BYE because he cause gave me just a little faith to believe that Tennessee may return to my expectations over the next few years. Dooley well that stories over, we seen it through beginning to end, we saw what he could do with the program while he was there and to be honest when you have more close game opportunities to pull huge upsets (Dooley) and blow the game undermanned or not it hurts your reputation more than getting beat horribly by a #1 or #2 that outplays you 120% because UT didnt have a chance in any type of way. GBO

Therefore, as with any coach, CBJ's window will shrink little by little every year to come to reach being a contendor for the SEC championship. He doesnt necessarily get anymore BYES in my book since its not his first year, but all he has to do is show improvement. Do I lose faith in him if we killed by BAMA or Oklahoma no. But I dont expect to win a high number (Not all but hopefully) of the following games: Florida, Georgia, Mizzou, Vandy, Florida, Utah St., Arkansas St., Kentucky, Ole Miss, and Chattanooga, SCjr (give or take a few).

This could be a fresh start for UT? I am almost persuaded to treat it like CBJ's first year, alot of older players are gone, and hes got a great recruiting class, I long to see what another great 2 recruiting classes, and 2 years of exp. for this years recruits will do for the program. If he can recruit well for 2015 and 2016 and in 2016 we have anything close to losing record the boot will be kicking his tail out of Neyland.
 
#114
#114
sjt18 said:
Not true. Dooley "looked" extremely organized when he arrived. He brought a very good young DC in and retained Kiffin's OC. His FIRST class in as much as he gets credit for it was much better than Jones' first class in as much as you fault him for it. His first staff included guys who were NFL coaches in the past.

His "look of being organized" may have obscured his personal lack of competence.

I know that this doesn't fit the "Dooley sucks" narrative that we're supposed to have around here... but there were reasons to think Dooley might work out after his first year with the program.

The first big turning point was when Hunter went down vs UF. You could see Dooley deflate on the sideline. It went downhill from there. The slide picked up momentum with the UK loss... a little more with DR's dismissal... and then the whole '12 season.

He's still to blame and deserved to be fired. But he didn't look that much worse after one year than Jones from an organization standpoint. At this point going into his year two, UT was returning two great Fr LB's, a talented young OL, a 1000 yd rusher, Bray, and two outstanding WR's. A LOT of people were optimistic.
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I was one of those optimistic people, I wanted Dooley to succeed. The main things about Dooley I didnt like was his personality. If he was coming up on a hard opponent he let the media know that they are great and were are young and not ready. I hated that. Besides that I wanted him to win and thought he had a good as shot as anyone. BUT he proved to me he couldnt by losing close games and not beating a top 25 team the whole time he was here. he had his chance to win 1 big game, just 1. and he would of slowed the fire from spreading.:gun:
 
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#115
#115
Voltillyafall said:
Good grief. I laughed so hard I had milk running out of my nose. Then I realized you are serious. Everybody who knows anything knows that 2015 will be the year we are competitive nationally.
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I agree with this guy. Look for improvements this year but dont be surprised with our schedule if the improvements dont meet many people's expectations. They are too high. For me 1-3 game improvement = a bowl game appearance and hopefully a win. That would be a complete success. Then we start expecting some nice wins next year with a little experience under our belt and a team thats learning to win together. We have a hard schedule I havent even ruled out Utah St. and probably wont until it happens. We will see.:rock:GBO
 
#117
#117
Remy said:
Hart & CBJ both have my support unless I see some sort of collapse by 118 on the playing field. No heat from me if we were to go 5-7 this season for either fellow. That said with all the athletes and kids that have graduated from UT that have gone on to have great careers as sports administrators, let Hart be the last AD ever hired by UT that is not a graduate. Heck we even had another thread where Reggie McKenzie's son is being heavily recruited by CBJ, with Reggie a fixture in the Raiders front office. Why not Reggie or someone similar getting the nod from here on out after Hart? I expect CBJ to do well and Hart not to be under pressure to leave, but he's no spring chicken and some photographs he looks like death eating a cracker so we need a plan b go to guy or gal. You can't tell me one of Pat Summit's protege's couldn't run the Athletic Dept? GMAFB!
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Another 5-7 season would be a failure. Last year six wins were a reasonable expectation... six to 8 are reasonable for this fall. At some point, a coach has to prove he can coach.
 
#118
#118
BigTCountry said:
I was one of those optimistic people, I wanted Dooley to succeed. The main things about Dooley I didnt like was his personality. If he was coming up on a hard opponent he let the media know that they are great and were are young and not ready. I hated that. Besides that I wanted him to win and thought he had a good as shot as anyone. BUT he proved to me he couldnt by losing close games and not beating a top 25 team the whole time he was here. he had his chance to win 1 big game, just 1. and he would of slowed the fire from spreading.:gun:
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Completely agree with you. He got a fair shot and failed. Jones now gets his shot... the standard for succeeding should not change. Dooley's dad had a habit of playing up opponents too. It worked for dad... not for Junior.

If he had been a winner... no one would have cared what his personality was or if he kissed the rumps of HS coaches or not.
 
#119
#119
BigTCountry said:
I agree recruiting on Fulmers part was a problem I wouldnt agrue that, but would mention that just the shock of having a really bad really with Fulmer record wise is what pushed him out of UT. Could he have came back the next year and performed well probably.
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Fulmer would not have performed well for a couple of reasons. One, the roster had reached critical mass. He was not winning battles he once won and especially for elite linemen... he often couldn't even get good ones.

The ONLY way he could have survived was to have changed with the game... and 2008 was at least 5 years too late for that.

But I, on the other hand, dont know all the information on AD's and dont know all the facts and do not even want to act like I do as many of the people on VN do.
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Most want someone to blame and an AD is convenient if you'd rather not blame the coach and can't blame the boosters who actually make the calls.

Also, people on Volnation by far do not want to hear any more excuses on why it could be a long hard road.
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There are reasons why it could be a long, hard road. But very... VERY pragmatically speaking... the road gets WORSE if you don't hold a coach to a very high standard and expect results VERY early. For most but especially UT, recruiting momentum is vital. UT MUST get out of state talent which means they MUST be provide enough of a chance to win that elite players will give them a long look. Go 5-7 again... lose to USU or someone like that... and recruits will notice big time.

To answer your question, quite frankly you have a good point why does Jones gets a BYE on such a killing from Oregon and Bama? All I can say is its more hope than anything, I give him a BYE because he cause gave me just a little faith to believe that Tennessee may return to my expectations over the next few years.
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I'm still waiting for that. I was pleased with the USCe win but was not surprised by it. Looking at the rosters last summer, it looked like a favorable matchup for UT. I give him credit for UGa... but in the same way I gave Dooley credit for LSU. Promising but in the end still a loss.

Dooley well that stories over, we seen it through beginning to end, we saw what he could do with the program while he was there and to be honest when you have more close game opportunities to pull huge upsets (Dooley) and blow the game undermanned or not it hurts your reputation more than getting beat horribly by a #1 or #2 that outplays you 120% because UT didnt have a chance in any type of way. GBO
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Huh? Dooley faced uphill battles every bit as steep as Jones did against those better teams. I give Dooley little credit but his coordinators kept UT in those games for a half.

If all you had of Dooley was year one and compared it to Jones' year one... Dooley's year one would look better.

Therefore, as with any coach, CBJ's window will shrink little by little every year to come to reach being a contendor for the SEC championship. He doesnt necessarily get anymore BYES in my book since its not his first year, but all he has to do is show improvement. Do I lose faith in him if we killed by BAMA or Oklahoma no. But I dont expect to win a high number (Not all but hopefully) of the following games: Florida, Georgia, Mizzou, Vandy, Florida, Utah St., Arkansas St., Kentucky, Ole Miss, and Chattanooga, SCjr (give or take a few).

This could be a fresh start for UT? I am almost persuaded to treat it like CBJ's first year, alot of older players are gone, and hes got a great recruiting class, I long to see what another great 2 recruiting classes, and 2 years of exp. for this years recruits will do for the program. If he can recruit well for 2015 and 2016 and in 2016 we have anything close to losing record the boot will be kicking his tail out of Neyland.
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Honestly, there are no byes and many of those excusing last year's 5-7 will be sharpening pitchforks at the end of this year if UT wins only 4 or 5 games.

Like you, I just want to see improvement to "keep hope alive" that he's a good coach. He also desperately needs that to convince recruits that things are moving in the right direction. While Bama and OU look to be superior teams, he can't have 40 point "no shows" any more. They need to at least show some signs of life against the best teams.
 
#120
#120
sjt18 said:
Not true. Dooley "looked" extremely organized when he arrived. He brought a very good young DC in and retained Kiffin's OC. His FIRST class in as much as he gets credit for it was much better than Jones' first class in as much as you fault him for it. His first staff included guys who were NFL coaches in the past.

His "look of being organized" may have obscured his personal lack of competence.

I know that this doesn't fit the "Dooley sucks" narrative that we're supposed to have around here... but there were reasons to think Dooley might work out after his first year with the program.

The first big turning point was when Hunter went down vs UF. You could see Dooley deflate on the sideline. It went downhill from there. The slide picked up momentum with the UK loss... a little more with DR's dismissal... and then the whole '12 season.

He's still to blame and deserved to be fired. But he didn't look that much worse after one year than Jones from an organization standpoint. At this point going into his year two, UT was returning two great Fr LB's, a talented young OL, a 1000 yd rusher, Bray, and two outstanding WR's. A LOT of people were optimistic.
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It was not until the 2011 KY lost that I thought "WTGDF" about CDD. I recognized that with Bray's injury in 2011 we lost a lot of firepower so; even then, I was optimistic about 2012. I was seriously pissed about the Florida loss, but even after that I stepped back and remembered "it's Florida, and sadly we a-l-w-a-y-s seem to lose to them."

It wasn't until the Miss. St. game in which CDD had two weeks to prepare and UT came in flat footed and got TRUCKED in the first half that I finally wanted CDD fired on the spot.
 
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#121
#121
VolFan4Life87 said:
It was not until the 2011 KY lost that I thought "WTGDF" about CDD. I recognized that with Bray's injury in 2011 we lost a lot of firepower so; even then, I was optimistic about 2012. I was seriously pissed about the Florida loss, but even after that I stepped back and remembered "it's Florida, and sadly we a-l-w-a-y-s seem to lose to them."

It wasn't until the Miss. St. game in which CDD had two weeks to prepare and UT came in flat footed and got TRUCKED in the first half that I finally wanted CDD fired on the spot.
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It was the 4 OT Mizzou game that did it for me. I really had hope until that point. I was there and it was terrible.
 
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#122
#122
VolAllen said:
It was the 4 OT Mizzou game that did it for me. I really had hope until that point. I was there and it was terrible.
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I was done with him after USCe. That was the last shot he had at beating an opponent that "mattered"... and then only marginally. He needed a win over UGA, UF, or Bama to make any kind of real statement.
 
#123
#123
BigTCountry said:
I was one of those optimistic people, I wanted Dooley to succeed. The main things about Dooley I didnt like was his personality. If he was coming up on a hard opponent he let the media know that they are great and were are young and not ready. I hated that. Besides that I wanted him to win and thought he had a good as shot as anyone. BUT he proved to me he couldnt by losing close games and not beating a top 25 team the whole time he was here. he had his chance to win 1 big game, just 1. and he would of slowed the fire from spreading.:gun:
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Gave up against Mizzou
 
#125
#125
sjt18 said:
I was done with him after USCe. That was the last shot he had at beating an opponent that "mattered"... and then only marginally. He needed a win over UGA, UF, or Bama to make any kind of real statement.
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He had a good shot at UF. I was there for that one, too. On my birthday...always ruined by the UF game. This year it's sandwiched between UGA and Okla....yay.
 
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