Dave Hart...the consumate Bean Counter

[VolArmy74]

maybe kind of like ben howland currently looking for a job ........ ?

Howland appears to be unhireable for everyone right now due to all that went on at UCLA.

Also quite a difference between those guys and Howland in regards to their on court or on the field performance played out. They never had a drop off while coaching college and left jobs for better jobs in the pros. Howland fell off dramatically and was fired.

 

[InVOLuntary]

it is an entrenched philosophy of jim haslam, he of the mega-million $$ donations, who does not want his alma mater perceived as "mercenary like bama" when it comes to hiring coaches.

"mercenary" was the then unheard of sum of $4mil/year for saban, who the bama president recently called the greatest investment in the history of the university.

check out bama's current financial reserves, and compare them to UT's, for a lesson on hiring proven winners versus rolling the dice in the bargain basement and recycling every 3-4 years.

I think it's a different philosophy. UT is not against paying successful coaches once they prove themselves here. Bruce was paid well here and would probably been paid as one of the top 20 coaches in the game today if it hadn't been for his transgressions. Some schools go out and spend the money on the front end.

 

[VolArmy74]

I think it's a different philosophy. UT is not against paying successful coaches once they prove themselves here. Bruce was paid well here and would probably been paid as one of the top 20 coaches in the game today if it hadn't been for his transgressions. Some schools go out and spend the money on the front end.

Bruce's salary was around 14th in the nation with his final extension here. Even this "cheap" hire is in the top 35 in the nation.

 

[InVOLuntary]

My point is we could have spent more money on a more proven coach but we chose not to.

 

[VolArmy74]

My point is we could have spent more money on a more proven coach but we chose not to.

Maybe, if a more proven one was willing to come. But it'd probably have been a whole lot more and there are no grand slam hires floating around looking for jobs despite what some seem to believe.

Right now look at Mike Anderson, Frank Martin and Anthony Grant to see what paying a big salary to a hot name coach gets you.

 

[Oskie Volum]

That is the price of admission for a proven head coach at the top level of the sport he or she is involved in.

It should never be the opening bid for someone lacking quality experience at a top-level program.

Billy Donovan didn't get that kind of deal to begin with at Florida. He's earned it by proving himself at his job.

I see nothing wrong with making a coach prove his worth at TB before he earns a larger wage/buyout in an updated contract.

If that means we lose out on Louisiana Tech coaches with a bloated perception of their worth on the open market, then so be it.

Some hate some of yall hold inside. Seriously some of yall need help.

You do realize that Dooley's annual salary was in the 1.8-1.9 range right?? That was in the lowest amounts in the SEC and at UT. The buyout was UT and the fans fault not Dooley's. So not sure where this privileged mentality business comes from. His willingness to come into the horrible situation at the league bottom annual salary proves the opposite of what u say. Just forced a high buyout to give him enough time. It's ridiculous if anyone thinks that less than 3 yrs is enough time to get things on track without a possible dip before things get better. That's just a natural reaction when things are as bad as they were when he got on campus. CBJ is getting $2.9-3mil/yr, and has a high buyout too. So I'm guessing all his Co-championships trophies is worth that extra million, cause the situation he walked into is way easier than Dooley's.

On a side note I don't understand why people say that we should throw money at big time coaches that r proven...like who?? how many r there that r available?? How many r willing to come to UT and leave a place they built for a little more money?? There aren't many Sabans, out there. Bama lucked into him with perfect timing. Unless Harbourgh is wanting to come back there isn't a pile of coaches that one can really say "dang I'm 100% this guy will be able to do it" or even close. Every coach willing to move at this pt is hit or miss imo.

Now to Hart and CM, and keeping to the forum. Hart decided he wanted to move on from CM, so he low balled him to force him out without a buyout. Simple. Not the biggest Hart fan, and personally don't trust he cares for UT as much as its his job. Like him or not though the tactic he used wasn't a bad one or a bad "bean counter" one. He's a basketball guy, so I feel a bit more confident he approached this situation better than he did the '12 football fiasco.

Just all imho that's all...
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[Brianchevy]

10 Steps of being a UT Fan:

1) “Fire the coach!”
2) We are interviewing Coach K or Jim Harbaugh or John Gruden or John Calapari
3) “Our AD, better make a good hire! Offer $50M”
4) “We were turned down by _____, damn! didn’t want him anyway.”
5) “We hired who??” < hurries to google to find out who he is>
6) “That’s an UPGRADE!!”
7) “We will win the NC with this guy. Coach worship in full effect..”
8) “Why aren’t we getting results in the first 2 years?”
9) “We should have a better coach!”
10) “Fire the coach!”

The only variable is the sport, the coaches name, and how long the cycle takes to go from 1 back to 10.

 

[VolGee4]

When you only have 1.9 million in reserves it doesn't make a lot of sense to go out and blow the whole flipping wad in one shot. This is not obamanomics where everything is affordable, this is the real world where budgets have to be met.

While I certainly agree with you, part of the job of an AD is to "raise" more funds. You have to get the big donors on board for an exciting hire and ask them to contribute. Fundraising is a major job function of the AD.

I am, in no way, saying that Hart doesn't do this because I don't know. But, it does go both ways. We shouldn't feel sorry for ourselves because we have low reserves. It takes money to make money, so go out there, raise some funds, and hire a damn good coach. We have been focusing alot on facilities, but people are assets, too, especially in big-time college athletics. JMO.

 

[VolGee4]

Am I the only one who is glad Hart won't promise f*** loads of money to coaches he doesn't have complete faith in?

Giving coaches like Dooley huge buyouts is part of what got us up s*** creek in the first place. I'm glad he didn't overreact to Cuonzo's run and give him huge guarantees of money. I'm not sure he'd ever really earn it in the future (call it the CJ2k effect).

I wanted White to coach here, but I'm also glad Hart didn't cave in on a less than ideal buyout to a guy who only has 3 years of coaching experience and could either bust or see UT as a stepping stone.

I think Hart has a lot of balls for sticking to his guns and doing what his experience tells him is the right thing to do in our case. Time will tell if his approach pays off, but I'm glad to see him making calculated decisions instead of impulse ones.

If I recall, it wasn't the initial buyout for Dooley that got us. Hamilton extended the initial buyout a year after Dooley went to a bowl game the first year. The Dooley buyout wouldn't have been so much if it wasn't extended.

You also have to hire with conviction, meaning "this is our guy." You don't want to be reckless. But if you believe that, you will also be more liberal with your offer.

 

[tm3]

I think it's a different philosophy. UT is not against paying successful coaches once they prove themselves here. Bruce was paid well here and would probably been paid as one of the top 20 coaches in the game today if it hadn't been for his transgressions. Some schools go out and spend the money on the front end.

yes, it is different, and yes, they do.

UF needed a new HC around 1990, and a new DC soon after. they got proven winner steve superior for about $2mil and proven winner bob stoops, respectively, for $485k. UT promoted fulmer for under $1mil and then promoted chavis for $150k.

how did UT and UF compare from 1990 to 2001?

more recently UF, bama, and OSU needed new coaches. UF and OSU hired meyer, bama hired saban. UT hired dooley and kiffin.

different approaches, different results.

 

[Exiled]

Am I the only one who is glad Hart won't promise f*** loads of money to coaches he doesn't have complete faith in?

Giving coaches like Dooley huge buyouts is part of what got us up s*** creek in the first place. I'm glad he didn't overreact to Cuonzo's run and give him huge guarantees of money. I'm not sure he'd ever really earn it in the future (call it the CJ2k effect).

I wanted White to coach here, but I'm also glad Hart didn't cave in on a less than ideal buyout to a guy who only has 3 years of coaching experience and could either bust or see UT as a stepping stone.

I think Hart has a lot of balls for sticking to his guns and doing what his experience tells him is the right thing to do in our case. Time will tell if his approach pays off, but I'm glad to see him making calculated decisions instead of impulse ones.

Agree totally. All the *****ing and moaning over not spending truck loads of money is cracking me up. Somebody, somewhere has to come up with that money.

 

[LordVOLdemort]

Agree totally. All the *****ing and moaning over not spending truck loads of money is cracking me up. Somebody, somewhere has to come up with that money.

Nope, I think they really think that we have a money tree or maybe Obama will come bail us out...

If we had boatloads of money, it would be easy to get a coach, but we have been spending a lot more in the past 8 years and not making as much as we had in the past.

 

[InVOLuntary]

yes, it is different, and yes, they do.

UF needed a new HC around 1990, and a new DC soon after. they got proven winner steve superior for about $2mil and proven winner bob stoops, respectively, for $485k. UT promoted fulmer for under $1mil and then promoted chavis for $150k.

how did UT and UF compare from 1990 to 2001?

more recently UF, bama, and OSU needed new coaches. UF and OSU hired meyer, bama hired saban. UT hired dooley and kiffin.

different approaches, different results.

I think everyone needs to draw their own conclusions as to what philosophy is best. I know how I feel.

 

[HBCButch]

I'm not that big of a fan of basketball, but Hart should now be given the added title of "Chief Bean Counter of the UT Athletics Dept." I read an article today, saying that one of the things that rubbed Coach Martin the wrong way, was the lowball figure the Dept would owe him if he was fired. Something like 14% of the remaining contract.

So, Martin may have had one foot out the door because of the fan reaction mid-season, but Hart made sure he got the other foot out, too...with his low-balling arse.

I like where Butch Jones is going with the Football program, but let's face it....Hart was never going to offer the upper echelon coaches what it would take to persuade them. He had a low to mid-level SEC budget in mind, and that's not to cut it.

He, like Hamilton, thought he could find a good one on the cheap. Sometimes you can, but the averages are against that occurring, most of the time. Lane Kiffin and Derek Dooley are very good examples of that policy backfiring.

You cannot tell me Marshall wouldn't have jumped at the offer of 2.2-2.5mill/yr and with contract terms that gave him some ironclad security over the next 3-4yrs, while rebuilding the roster.

And that's exactly what I see to. It's not who the admin picks, it's the admin doing the picking. I hear all this BS about how we have no monies. BS! We in the black in basketball. Stop thinking football....some of us, when it isn't football season, don't give a **** about football.

 

[HBCButch]

I'm not that big of a fan of basketball, but Hart should now be given the added title of "Chief Bean Counter of the UT Athletics Dept." I read an article today, saying that one of the things that rubbed Coach Martin the wrong way, was the lowball figure the Dept would owe him if he was fired. Something like 14% of the remaining contract.

So, Martin may have had one foot out the door because of the fan reaction mid-season, but Hart made sure he got the other foot out, too...with his low-balling arse.

I like where Butch Jones is going with the Football program, but let's face it....Hart was never going to offer the upper echelon coaches what it would take to persuade them. He had a low to mid-level SEC budget in mind, and that's not to cut it.

He, like Hamilton, thought he could find a good one on the cheap. Sometimes you can, but the averages are against that occurring, most of the time. Lane Kiffin and Derek Dooley are very good examples of that policy backfiring.

You cannot tell me Marshall wouldn't have jumped at the offer of 2.2-2.5mill/yr and with contract terms that gave him some ironclad security over the next 3-4yrs, while rebuilding the roster.

Who gives a flipping damn about Marshall and what he wants?

 

[HBCButch]

If you just climbed out of 200k of debt would you be eager to jump in a new lambo?

I would if I thought like these jacklegs. It's somebody else's money. It's like politic's.