damn! not the greatest publicity here

#51
#51
vol66 said:
Man, some of you guys are caught in a rut on the fan thing...

A coach wants security for his family and those of his assistants. He wants security so he can recruit long term and build a program. He wants to know he and his staff will be rewarded when they do well, and that reward is more security.

As I said, while it may not matter what some in the media or the fan base says...the perception that is out there for the pool of candidates does matter.

If I were a coach I'd look at the situation, maybe talk to Martin. I'd weigh that with my current position.

If I were a guy like Marshall, I'd pass...in fact, I think there are going to be very few viable candidates. I hope I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

Let's say Marshall wanted the job. Just because UT wouldn't pony up for Cuonzo (a coach one basket away from going to his third straight NIT) doesn't mean they wouldn't offer Marshall a deal with lots of security.
 
#52
#52
GAVol said:
As Verc said, there's definitely been some bad luck, but how do you look at an organization that's had 4 football coaches, 3 basketball coaches and 2 ADs in the past 5 years and not infer some level of organizational dysfunction?
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"Some level", yes. But that exists in every university, and in every business.
 
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#53
#53
Tennessee fans are a big family we can squabble amongst our selfs but let an outsider start on one of us and it's on! :)
 
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#55
#55
vollygirl said:
"Some level", yes. But that exists in every university, and in every business.
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I don't think so.

Name all the schools you can think of that have had any combination of 9 people holding the positions of football coach, men's basketball coach or AD in a 5 year period. If that happens at UGA or Texas or Notre Dame, your first reaction would be "What's wrong with those people?" and nobody would blame you.
 
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#56
#56
Coaches get paid millions. That's way more than their job is actually worth, and it is due to the ridiculous money flowing into college athletics. If you can't stand the public pressure that comes with being one of the 3-5 highest paid state employees, don't take the job.

In other words...If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
 
#57
#57
vol66 said:
Man, some of you guys are caught in a rut on the fan thing...

A coach wants security for his family and those of his assistants. He wants security so he can recruit long term and build a program. He wants to know he and his staff will be rewarded when they do well, and that reward is more security.

As I said, while it may not matter what some in the media or the fan base says...the perception that is out there for the pool of candidates does matter.

If I were a coach I'd look at the situation, maybe talk to Martin. I'd weigh that with my current position.

If I were a guy like Marshall, I'd pass...in fact, I think there are going to be very few viable candidates. I hope I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

serious question:

Isn't making a million plus security?

These coaches understand the game in which they are involved. Bottom line is that CCM restarted his clock - he has another 3-4 years as will he his staff. Depending on his compensation package at Cal. he might actually net less money considering the state and local taxes in Cali. Additionally I wonder what their bball budget is at Cal.
 
#58
#58
patrick said:
serious question:

Isn't making a million plus security?

These coaches understand the game in which they are involved. Bottom line is that CCM restarted his clock - he has another 3-4 years as will he his staff. Depending on his compensation package at Cal. he might actually net less money considering the state and local taxes in Cali. Additionally I wonder what their bball budget is at Cal.
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That was my exact first thought. Leaving a place with no state income tax for California had better involve one hell of a raise.
 
#59
#59
vollygirl said:
Because that's what they're fed. Because that's what sells.
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Nobody in the national media has an anti-Tennessee bias because nobody outside of the state of Tennessee cares. There's no agenda against us. When the only news we ever make is coaching change and scandal, how else are people supposed to perceive us?
 
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#60
#60
BigZiti09 said:
Let's say Marshall wanted the job. Just because UT wouldn't pony up for Cuonzo (a coach one basket away from going to his third straight NIT) doesn't mean they wouldn't offer Marshall a deal with lots of security.
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My first question is do "THEY" have it? I'm not convinced that the UTAD does. Now the boosters might get on board and come op with the dough, and that would be a BIG STEP in righting the perception that "THEY" aren't willing to PAY a top notch coach in basketball.

Short of that...a top notch basketball coach, coming from a place devoted to basketball is going to demand a salary, and a recruiting budget, assistants pay, etc... commensurate with a basketball school...

Based on the past, what do you think they will do? The perception is they won't and that's based on many years, not just the last three.
 
#62
#62
vol66 said:
Man, some of you guys are caught in a rut on the fan thing...

A coach wants security for his family and those of his assistants. He wants security so he can recruit long term and build a program. He wants to know he and his staff will be rewarded when they do well, and that reward is more security.

As I said, while it may not matter what some in the media or the fan base says...the perception that is out there for the pool of candidates does matter.

If I were a coach I'd look at the situation, maybe talk to Martin. I'd weigh that with my current position.

If I were a guy like Marshall, I'd pass...in fact, I think there are going to be very few viable candidates. I hope I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

You may be right but,

1 Martin would almost certainly have been fired next year, and then been owed a big buyout. His recruiting was subpar, so another year of that would have set us back even further. Hart did what Hamilton couldn't seem to understand…you don't give big raises and long extensions when you're not sure where things are headed. THAT's how we got into all this "dysfunction" in the first place.

And 2, Martin chose to move on rather than take a half million raise, so what could anyone have done to avoid this? Nothing. At least nothing that was worth the risk.

We very well could end up with another mediocre coach, but it was still handled exactly the way it should have been, IMO. And coaches are smart enough to know its business.

We're finally doing it right and vol fans should be happy about that.
 
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#63
#63
GAVol said:
I don't think so.

Name all the schools you can think of that have had any combination of 9 people holding the positions of football coach, men's basketball coach or AD in a 5 year period. If that happens at UGA or Texas or Notre Dame, your first reaction would be "What's wrong with those people?" and nobody would blame you.
Click to expand...

It's like when you see someone's resume and he's held six jobs in five years. There might be a good reason why he's had to make every one of those changes, but your overriding assumption from the outside is that of course he's unstable as hell.
 
#64
#64
GAVol said:
My point is . . . Name all the schools you can think of that have had any combination of 9 people holding the positions of football coach, men's basketball coach or AD in a 5 year period. If that happens at UGA or Texas or Notre Dame, your first reaction would be "What's wrong with those people?" and nobody would blame you.
Click to expand...

I don't keep up with that at other places. So, no, I wouldn't have that reaction. I have no idea who Bama's basketball coach is for example, how long he's been there or how many they've had. Same for South Carolina and Georgia.

It's not news to the general public until a columnist makes it news.

Here's how you do it:

GAVol took his kids out of Stratus School and put them at Berean in 2011 because their test scores were great! Then he got that new job and they moved in 2014, and now they go to St. Marteen.

OR

GAVol has had his kids in three different schools in the last four years. He moves them around like lawn ornaments.

See how to sensationalize?
 
#65
#65
GAVol said:
Was there anything factually incorrect in that article?
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The only problem I have with the article is how it paints the entire UT fanbase as Martin bashers. Not everyone was bashing Martin. I don't even believe it was the majority. It's just that the Pearl fans were so vocal. What was the total of petition signers? Something like 36,000? How many fans does Neyland seat? Almost three times that. Sure, our basketball attendance doesn't compare to our football attendance, but my point is there are far more than 36,000 UT fans.
 
#66
#66
patrick said:
serious question:

Isn't making a million plus security?

These coaches understand the game in which they are involved. Bottom line is that CCM restarted his clock - he has another 3-4 years as will he his staff. Depending on his compensation package at Cal. he might actually net less money considering the state and local taxes in Cali. Additionally I wonder what their bball budget is at Cal.
Click to expand...

No. It's a pay check. When Hart didn't extend him the previous year, that was a threat to his security, not only to him and his family, but to the program because other programs said, "I dunno, he might get fired next season"...When the boosters yank the planes, again, it gives the perception that he doesn't have the confidence of the money people...when Hart doesn't come out and say anything about Martin's status or all of the Pearl stuff...Finally, when he gives him a raise, but slashes the buy out, it says you did okay but we're going to make it easy on us if you fail.

The perception and reality will meet when Hart makes a hire imo.
 
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#69
#69
vol66 said:
No. It's a pay check. When Hart didn't extend him the previous year, that was a threat to his security, not only to him and his family, but to the program because other programs said, "I dunno, he might get fired next season"...When the boosters yank the planes, again, it gives the perception that he doesn't have the confidence of the money people...when Hart doesn't come out and say anything about Martin's status or all of the Pearl stuff...Finally, when he gives him a raise, but slashes the buy out, it says you did okay but we're going to make it easy on us if you fail.

The perception and reality will meet when Hart makes a hire imo.
Click to expand...

Stop making sense
 
#70
#70
Vercingetorix said:
It's like when you see someone's resume and he's held six jobs in five years. There might be a good reason why he's had to make every one of those changes, but your overriding assumption from the outside is that of course he's unstable as hell.
Click to expand...

Exactly. It's the natural and usually at least somewhat correct reaction.
 
#71
#71
vol66 said:
No. It's a pay check. When Hart didn't extend him the previous year, that was a threat to his security, not only to him and his family, but to the program because other programs said, "I dunno, he might get fired next season"...When the boosters yank the planes, again, it gives the perception that he doesn't have the confidence of the money people...when Hart doesn't come out and say anything about Martin's status or all of the Pearl stuff...Finally, when he gives him a raise, but slashes the buy out, it says you did okay but we're going to make it easy on us if you fail.

The perception and reality will meet when Hart makes a hire imo.
Click to expand...

500k raise and 2 year ext with 1,000,000 buy out is more security than I have ever thought about.

However why are we talking security?

Is next year's team not CCM's and CCM's alone?

If his first full team made up of his players gives Tennessee a sub .500 season then what security does CCM deserve? Seriously? Why should he have a big buy out? If he has had sub par recruiting and/or missed on players why should the university carry that burden? It is no secret that with Stokes gone the Vols may barely be a .500 team and a NCAAT birth is doubtful.

Please explain what security CCM deserved in yr 4 of his tenure since the entire team is HIS team?
 
#72
#72
Vercingetorix said:
One thing he's not misinformed about is that the national perception is that the University of Tennessee's athletic program is a trainwreck.
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I don't know I travel a far amount, and there's questions everywhere I go

East Coast- PA, Jersey
Southwest- TX, AZ
South- GA, FL

I'd say more than your average knows three's something wrong at Tennessee

and 8 times out of 10 there's a comment about firing Fulmer
 
#74
#74
vol_in_ar said:
I don't know I travel a far amount, and there's questions everywhere I go

East Coast- PA, Jersey
Southwest- TX, AZ
South- GA, FL

I'd say more than your average knows three's something wrong at Tennessee

and 8 times out of 10 there's a comment about firing Fulmer
Click to expand...

Firing Fulmer was the right call. We just botched the next two hires.
 
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