This job just became untouchable by anyone who VN would approve of

#76
#76
zydane47 said:
Please just stop this crap. I don't care how close the coaches supposedly are, if the money is their they'll come.

Also if all the other coaches saw him as a success then maybe they need to re-evaluate their definition of success. The guy toiled for three years, and finally in his third year when he had veteran talent, he backed his way into the NCAAT and got lucky when Duke got beat.

This job is not untouchable, it's been shown before that if you win, people will come and support. Hell they still supported this year even when we played like crap. They can and should go after every proven coach they can and make them say no.
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This! People still love CBP around here even after he lied to the ncaa and would have hired him back...proof.
 
#77
#77
PagingDrVol said:
The coaching fraternity is tight, and viewed CCM as a success here. Much as happened three years ago, all of them will be warning each other not to leave anything remotely secure to take this job.

The next coach will have to come here from an equally or more desperate situation and probably will be someone without much [if any] name recognition.

VN has created an unwinnable situation for its own athletic director in the search process, and we can only dream of hiring someone who would make us a true contender now. Stability is the backbone of major college sports, and by shafting the coaching fraternity's prom queen, we have just ensured a date with a very homely and desperate replacement.

It won't be Hart's fault when his first 8 choices say no. Check the mirror.
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Bruce loved VN's passion. So did Butch Jones.

Quit being a baby
 
#78
#78
We would be on the up and up already had we just brought Bruce back. But everyone wanted to keep Martin cause he was such a high caracter guy...
 
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#80
#80
daj2576 said:
Interesting argument. While it is very likely that Jones was not Tennessee's first choice, the rest of that is nonsensical.

Are you suggesting that Tennessee was forced to hire Jones? Tennessee didn't want to hire him, right? They must have been forced into it.

The "year zero" statement is a conflation of Dooley's tenure with the current coach, who, to my knowledge, has never used such verbiage. In fact, he has constantly talked about "the process" and about how losing is never acceptable at Tennessee. Oh, and he did so during a year where his team beat a post-season top 5 team, and where all the losses came against teams either ranked at the time they played or at the end of the season. If polls matter as an indication of how good a team is, wouldn't the losses to ranked teams be expected, while the win against a top 5 team be a sign of over-achievement?

Finally, Jones is one of the few coaches in college football that has a history of over-performance in relation to talent. Over his tenure he averages winning 3 games a year more than talent would predict, and talent is right as a measure of success about 70% of the time (or 90% in title games).

So while I can't say that next year is definitely going to be better or worse than last year, I can tell you that we have a coach in place that Tennessee wanted, and who has a rare history of turning talent into more victories than talent would predict. Oh, and he is a pretty good recruiter too.
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You tell him...I'm so mad I can't :hi:
 
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#82
#82
Ben Howland has allegedly already reached out to two different boosters at UT according to Tony B.
 
#83
#83
Wilson27 said:
Ben Howland has allegedly already reached out to two different boosters at UT according to Tony B.
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Thats what Im talking about! Dude took two teams to final fours...no need for anyone to jump off bridges over CCM.:rock:
 
#85
#85
daj2576 said:
Interesting argument. While it is very likely that Jones was not Tennessee's first choice, the rest of that is nonsensical.

Are you suggesting that Tennessee was forced to hire Jones? Tennessee didn't want to hire him, right? They must have been forced into it.

The "year zero" statement is a conflation of Dooley's tenure with the current coach, who, to my knowledge, has never used such verbiage. In fact, he has constantly talked about "the process" and about how losing is never acceptable at Tennessee. Oh, and he did so during a year where his team beat a post-season top 5 team, and where all the losses came against teams either ranked at the time they played or at the end of the season. If polls matter as an indication of how good a team is, wouldn't the losses to ranked teams be expected, while the win against a top 5 team be a sign of over-achievement?

Finally, Jones is one of the few coaches in college football that has a history of over-performance in relation to talent. Over his tenure he averages winning 3 games a year more than talent would predict, and talent is right as a measure of success about 70% of the time (or 90% in title games).

So while I can't say that next year is definitely going to be better or worse than last year, I can tell you that we have a coach in place that Tennessee wanted, and who has a rare history of turning talent into more victories than talent would predict. Oh, and he is a pretty good recruiter too.
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Tennessee wasn't forced into hiring anyone; they picked the best of the dregs given financial and reputation constraints. Also, I'm so glad to know that the talent at Tennessee last season was expected to win 2 games. In retrospect, it'd be silly for me not to be elated about a 5-win season!
 
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#86
#86
PagingDrVol said:
The coaching fraternity is tight, and viewed CCM as a success here. Much as happened three years ago, all of them will be warning each other not to leave anything remotely secure to take this job.

The next coach will have to come here from an equally or more desperate situation and probably will be someone without much [if any] name recognition.

VN has created an unwinnable situation for its own athletic director in the search process, and we can only dream of hiring someone who would make us a true contender now. Stability is the backbone of major college sports, and by shafting the coaching fraternity's prom queen, we have just ensured a date with a very homely and desperate replacement.

It won't be Hart's fault when his first 8 choices say no. Check the mirror.
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If a coach is that big of a p**** and can't handle getting criticized for underachieving then he might want to go into another profession. Since no coach will want to come here just go ahead and shut down the damn program. The fact that you people are willing to accept mediocrity deserves the look in the mirror more so than anything else. It took criticism of Martin and the possibility of him being fired before this team would even step up and play ball. This program will benefit greatly when the lazy players are gone just like their coach who couldn't motivate them.
 
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#88
#88
dallasmp said:
Butch Jones was hardly the coach Tennessee wanted to hire and will follow up a subpar "year zero" with an even more lackluster season this fall.. I'm truly sorry that you're incapable of recognizing this.
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GTFO..seriously.

And 2 people liked that bs...
 
#90
#90
PagingDrVol said:
The coaching fraternity is tight, and viewed CCM as a success here. Much as happened three years ago, all of them will be warning each other not to leave anything remotely secure to take this job.

The next coach will have to come here from an equally or more desperate situation and probably will be someone without much [if any] name recognition.

VN has created an unwinnable situation for its own athletic director in the search process, and we can only dream of hiring someone who would make us a true contender now. Stability is the backbone of major college sports, and by shafting the coaching fraternity's prom queen, we have just ensured a date with a very homely and desperate replacement.

It won't be Hart's fault when his first 8 choices say no. Check the mirror.
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He left. He was not fired. Should we have had a mattress burning to show how bad we wanted him to stay?
 
#91
#91
PagingDrVol said:
That's exactly what type of coach we will have to hire - basketball's Derek Dooley - someone with a decent name but who is in way over his head, because everyone we'd really like to have just laughs in Hart's face when he calls.

And this was entirely preventable.
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Basketballs Derek Dooley just quit here to go to Cal.
 
#97
#97
PagingDrVol said:
The coaching fraternity is tight, and viewed CCM as a success here. Much as happened three years ago, all of them will be warning each other not to leave anything remotely secure to take this job.

The next coach will have to come here from an equally or more desperate situation and probably will be someone without much [if any] name recognition.

VN has created an unwinnable situation for its own athletic director in the search process, and we can only dream of hiring someone who would make us a true contender now. Stability is the backbone of major college sports, and by shafting the coaching fraternity's prom queen, we have just ensured a date with a very homely and desperate replacement.

It won't be Hart's fault when his first 8 choices say no. Check the mirror.
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We need some payin gigs!
:eek:lol:
Really: at least hire a coach that is less sensitive. Looks like the petition hurt CCMs feelings.
 
#98
#98
PagingDrVol said:
PS - several of you idiots think money is going to solve this. Hint: it ain't.

The AD has to view the entire athletic department budget as a whole when making these salary decisions, and he has a formula that he uses to determine the "right" amount to spend on an MBB coach. That number is not going to be large enough to get a decent coach under the current conditions.

Any of you that think this university will spend $3M+ on an excellent hoops coach are nuts. The money is not there to do that and never will be.

Problem is, you've now made it impossible to buy a pretty good one, too. So - what's left? That's right, coaches with fatal flaws...

The smart ones among us won't forgive you very soon, by the way.
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We just got rid of a coach with a fatal flaw. Martin could lose to just about anyone, even when he had far superior talent so good riddance.
 
#99
#99
I think this job turned out great for both Pearl and Martin as far as money and recognition goes, so I don't see the problem.
 
#100
#100
knowthevols said:
We just got rid of a coach with a fatal flaw. Martin could lose to just about anyone, even when he had far superior talent so good riddance.
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Do you watch any college bball besides UT? Any coach can and has lost to teams they clearly out match. That is just basketball in general. Off nights, lucky shots, home refs can all be a factor. Or a lame team is hitting everything. You can't judge a season game by game but on the whole. I think that is what a lot here can't understand. Name any coach and they have done it. The great Bruce had a bunch of top ten teams who lost to worse teams.

We can get some one better. But we can get someone way worse. I wouldn't be so happy about it yet.
 
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