Coach Martin and recruiting

#129
#129
Good points. I think Martin's biggest fault was taking questionable recruits too early in the process. By questionable, I mean their talent level.

He seems to have learned from this. We are getting guys that are more highly recruited and have more ability along with some nice offers.

I think he needs to get guys that fit what he wants to do but there's guys in the top 100 and top 50 that fit his system as well. He needs to land some of those as well. I know he got stokes and Hubbs but there's been a big gap between them and our other recruits.

All that said, I'm happy with the incoming class. I think Cofer and Austin are going to be really good for us. I think Cornish is going to be better than expected as well. I don't know much about Turman as of yet but I've heard good things. All these guys will be nice players at UT.
 
#130
#130
ScreaminVolHawkins said:
nice post. any idea where i can get a list of martin's recruits since 2011?
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Quinton Chievous
SG
Chicago, IL
Notre Dame For Boys
6'5"
195
3 stars
5/5/11

Chris Jones
PG
Memphis (Tenn.), NC
Oak Ridge Military Academy
5'10"
180
4 stars

1/25/10
1 video
Yemi Makanjuola
C
Raleigh, NC
Word Of God Christian Academy
6'9"
230
3 stars

5/25/11
Dwight Miller
PF
Midland, TX
Midland College
6'8"
245
3 stars

5/19/11
Josh Richardson
SG
Edmond, OK
Santa Fe
6'5"
180
3 stars

4/16/11
Wes Washpun
PG
Cedar Rapids, IA
Washington
6'1"
170
3 stars

D'Montre Edwards
SF
Melbourne, FL
Eastern Florida State College
6'6"
210
3 stars
10/30/11

Armani Moore
SG
Kennesaw, GA
Mt Paran Christian School
6'5"
186
3 stars
3/20/12

Derek Reese
SF
Orlando, FL
Olympia
6'7"
195
3 stars
8/30/11

Jarnell Stokes
PF
Memphis, TN
Southwind
6'8"
255
5 stars

A.J. Davis
PF
Buford, GA
Buford
6'8"
200
3 stars
9/17/12

Robert Hubbs
SG
Newbern, TN
Dyer County
6'5"
180
5 stars
9/17/12

Rawane Ndiaye
C
Ottumwa, IA
Indian Hills C.C.
6'10"
255
2 stars
4/14/13

Darius Thompson
PG
Murfreesboro, TN
Blackman
6'4"
180
3 stars
3/23/13

Larry Austin
PG
Springfield, IL
Lanphier
6'1"
160
3 stars
8/1/13

Phil Cofer
PF
Fayetteville, GA
Whitewater
6'8"
205
3 stars
6/11/13

Jordan Cornish
SG
New Orleans, LA
Brother Martin
6'4"
180
3 stars
5/6/13

C.J. Turman
C
Madison, GA
Morgan County
6'8"
250
3 stars
8/18/13
 
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#132
#132
BigZiti09 said:
Good points. I think Martin's biggest fault was taking questionable recruits too early in the process. By questionable, I mean their talent level.

He seems to have learned from this. We are getting guys that are more highly recruited and have more ability along with some nice offers.

I think he needs to get guys that fit what he wants to do but there's guys in the top 100 and top 50 that fit his system as well. He needs to land some of those as well. I know he got stokes and Hubbs but there's been a big gap between them and our other recruits.

All that said, I'm happy with the incoming class. I think Cofer and Austin are going to be really good for us. I think Cornish is going to be better than expected as well. I don't know much about Turman as of yet but I've heard good things. All these guys will be nice players at UT.
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I think you've got to give him a pass on the first class, because it was thrown together last minute. The fact that he managed to sign a 5* athlete like Richardson is impressive.

I'm also not saying that stars can't play in Martin's system. Glenn Robinson played in this system and ended up as the number 1 draft pick. That being said, Robinson fit the system incredibly well. Same goes for Robbie Hummel, Etwaun Moore, JaJuan Johnson, etc. They were all top recruits who also fit the system. The general Purdue system involves one good scorer on the perimeter, one good scorer in the post, and a team full of great defenders. First team to 65 wins. I know it's not exciting all the time, but it can be effective.
 
#134
#134
drewtigeralum said:
I think you've got to give him a pass on the first class, because it was thrown together last minute. The fact that he managed to sign a 5* athlete like Richardson is impressive.

I'm also not saying that stars can't play in Martin's system. Glenn Robinson played in this system and ended up as the number 1 draft pick. That being said, Robinson fit the system incredibly well. Same goes for Robbie Hummel, Etwaun Moore, JaJuan Johnson, etc. They were all top recruits who also fit the system. The general Purdue system involves one good scorer on the perimeter, one good scorer in the post, and a team full of great defenders. First team to 65 wins. I know it's not exciting all the time, but it can be effective.
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I absolutely give him a pass on that first class.

I was speaking more of the Landry kid and Reese. Questionable takes IMO. I know he took Landry too early. Seems like Reese was early on in the process too. Guys like that can be taken in the spring of their senior season. Not midway through their junior year. He also completely whiffed on Demontre Edwards. He recruited Armani as a pg.

I just think overall the bar needs to be raised a little. Now that he's got a sweet 16 under his belt I hope he can do that.

I think he has learned along the way. He also at one time said he didn't need a point guard. He's brought in 3 in the last 12 months. He's realized the value of a good point guard.
 
#136
#136
You saw stars/talent vs. system last night in UVA-Mich. State game. UVA has a nice system but in the end MSU's talent won out, as is usually the case. UVA's coach, Tony Bennett, is a wisconsin disciple--which is very system oriented and effective but generally lacks the talent to go the way--tho maybe this year's team will change that. You need some ballers, but it is true: ballers don't always want to play system basketball. UVA lacked scoring talent last night. If Bennett recruits a offensive baller, is the kid going to sell out to play intense defense //on every play//? History says, probably not. The best coaches/programs have both talent and system--see michigan state. I frankly don't think Martin has the chops to take this program very far. This could have been his/our high-water mark.
 
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#137
#137
VolunteerHillbilly said:
Calipari proved the value of talent over system yesterday.
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Yes he did but it took them, a year, a season, and several bad loses to get the talent to the point he got them there.

Same can easily be said about Martin but for some strange reason it isn't.

OBTW, great post OP
 
#138
#138
I for one love defensive basketball. Grew up a Knicks fan. Oakley, Rivers, Starks, Mason, Ewing.....a great defensive basketball team.
 
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#139
#139
Sudden Impact said:
Yes he did but it took them, a year, a season, and several bad loses to get the talent to the point he got them there.

Same can easily be said about Martin but for some strange reason it isn't.

OBTW, great post OP
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But Martin did it without a roster of McDonald's All Americans.
 
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#140
#140
Just a few schools that have had top 10-15 or so recruiting classes most every year since 2000, when they have need to sign multiple players.

Kentucky, Florida, UConn, Memphis, Duke, Texas, Michigan State, Kansas, North Carolina, Michigan, Louisville, Indiana, Syracuse, Ohio State, Arizona, Georgetown, Indiana, Maryland.

Those schools have won the national championship 14 of the last 14 seasons. Those schools filled 42 out of 56 spots in the final 4 since 2000.

When recruiting fell off, like at Maryland, they dipped. Where it remains steady, Kentucky, Florida, North Carolina, Duke, Michigan State, they have multiple Final Fours.

Anyone selling that recruiting stars don't matter that much in basketball, is selling a bill of goods.
 
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#141
#141
VolArmy74 said:
Just a few schools that have had top 10-15 or so recruiting classes most every year since 2000, when they have need to sign multiple players.

Kentucky, Florida, UConn, Memphis, Duke, Texas, Michigan State, Kansas, North Carolina, Michigan, Louisville, Indiana, Syracuse, Ohio State, Arizona, Georgetown, Indiana, Maryland.

Those schools have won the national championship 14 of the last 14 seasons. Those schools filled 42 out of 56 spots in the final 4 since 2000.

When recruiting fell off, like at Maryland, they dipped. Where it remains steady, Kentucky, Florida, North Carolina, Duke, Michigan State, they have multiple Final Fours.

Anyone selling that recruiting stars don't matter that much in basketball, is selling a bill of goods.
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I think stars are more important in basketball than in football. In basketball, you bring in 2-3 studs, and you can flip a program in one season.
 
#142
#142
ukvols said:
I think stars are more important in basketball than in football. In basketball, you bring in 2-3 studs, and you can flip a program in one season.
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Very important in basketball, we should look no further than our own team in the impact that Stokes and Jordan made this year.

Michigan struggled for a long while, but signed two top 12 recruiting classes in the last few years per 247 and they're going pretty well right now.

Recruiting high level players is vital in CBB if you want to compete for titles with any consistency.
 
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#143
#143
All of our current recruits look like decent-to-good prospects on paper, but none project to be studs. Hopefully, there are 1-2 Josh Richardsons in there, as he was a 3-star recruit as well.
 
#144
#144
VolArmy74 said:
Very important in basketball, we should look no further than our own team in the impact that Stokes and Jordan made this year.

Michigan struggled for a long while, but signed two top 12 recruiting classes in the last few years per 247 and they're going pretty well right now.

Recruiting high level players is vital in CBB if you want to compete for titles with any consistency.
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It is very possible that Martin (if he returns) will have Stokes, Hubbs, and Richardson on the floor next year. Those 3 are all of his recruits. Stokes and Hubbs are both 5* players, and Richardson has proven to be a 5* talent. That isn't poor recruiting in my opinion.
 
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#145
#145
Ratings in basketball are way more accurate and telling of who will be good in basketball. The top players all play each other. Not the case in football.


That being said I think Martin has recruited ok but not great. This class we will see. If we get Rhett I'll like it a lot better.
 
#147
#147
Stokes returning is the most important element for next season along with CCM being at the helm. You gotta think this team has gained much from this tourney run. Also, CCM has recruited high profile individuals, just hasn't closed the deal on some. This can change when recruits see you dancing to the sweet sixteen. What may hurt our recruiting is some in our very own fan base. Case in point Justice.
 
#148
#148
i dont think his recruiting has been that bad. His biggest issue so far is not finding a shooter. Biggest problem when bruce was here as well (after lofton left).
 
#149
#149
drewtigeralum said:
It is very possible that Martin (if he returns) will have Stokes, Hubbs, and Richardson on the floor next year. Those 3 are all of his recruits. Stokes and Hubbs are both 5* players, and Richardson has proven to be a 5* talent. That isn't poor recruiting in my opinion.
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No, Richardson is a quality 3 star. He is finally peaking as a senior.

When your roster mostly consists of those type players you're going to contend for the NCAA 1 or maybe 2 out of every 4 seasons.

True 5 stars have seasons similar or better than Josh this year as freshmen.

People love to fuss about Scotty Hopson, but he averaged 10 ppg as a freshman, about what Josh did this year as a jr. Tobias was even bigger impact and averaged 15 ppg. Ramar was a 5* by some services, he averaged 11 ppg as a freshman. Duke averaged 8.5 points and 5 rebs a game as a freshman.

Josh averaged 2ppg as a freshman. While he's turned into a very good player, those above are the more typical impact of 4/5 star players, some have much bigger impact that those guys above. It's why Florida doesn't have big drop offs, or Duke, or the other people who are always signing top 20 classes.

We've not signed a top 30 class in the last 4 seasons now. I believe this year's class is 49th. That's not going to be good enough to compete going forward.
 
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#150
#150
SlyStone said:
Stokes returning is the most important element for next season along with CCM being at the helm. You gotta think this team has gained much from this tourney run. Also, CCM has recruited high profile individuals, just hasn't closed the deal on some. This can change when recruits see you dancing to the sweet sixteen. What may hurt our recruiting is some in our very own fan base. Case in point Justice.
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How did the fan base hurt with Justice?
 
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