TN HB-1547 on 'student religious freedom'

#376
#376
volprof said:
While we've been having such wonderful conversations about theology, evolution, grading, and public schools, what about the proposed law's constitutionality? This seems like the base practical matter, from which all the other concerns should then spring. I just don't see how it's constitutional. I'm not talking about students discussing their faith in class or in assignments; I'm talking about students being authorized to usurp announcements, school functions (that are not voluntary), etc. and turn them into some sort of camp revivals. Regardless of whether or not it's non-denominational or interfaith, I still don't see how this is legal.
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Specifically what is Unconstitutional about it? The mixing of church and state? Already addressed:

The policy would also require the LEA to:

(4) State that the student's speech does not reflect the endorsement, sponsorship, position, or expression of the LEA. This disclaimer would be provided at all graduation ceremonies and would be provided at any other event in which a student speaks publicly for as long as a need exists to dispel confusion over the LEA's nonsponsorship of the student's speech
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.

If anything, it upholds a student's Right to free speech.
 
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#377
#377
Gramps said:
You are stretching Mercy. There is no proof man came from a primate. It is a theory, nothing more.
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Again, your use of the term theory is not correct.

The heliocentric and germ theory are both theory's and like evolution considered fact.

If you can produce one iota of scientific evidence that can withstand peer review that evolution, germ or the heliocentric theories are wrong - collect your nobel prize at the door on the way to the party.

Until then, get knowledged up on what the difference is between a hypothesis a theory and a law are.

Frankly, religion wouldn't muster anything further than being called a hypothesis.

The irony is that some of you are unwittingly making the case for less religion and more academics - the profound misunderstanding of the scientific method is astonishing.
 
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#378
#378
Wow... there sure is a lot of butt hurt, hypocritical, paranoid Christian and Jesus haters in this thread.

Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

1 Corinthians 13:13
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Man... that's some freaky, scary shizz right there. Who in their right mind would ever want someone to learn about forgiveness and love.

I have no problem with anyone who doesn't believe in the Bible, but the number of people who seem to take it to extremes in this thread is mind boggling.

Seriously... what is the big fear?
 
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#379
#379
BartW said:
It's no coincidence that the same people that deny evolution are also the ones denying global warming, ozone depletion, vaccines, acid rain, big bang, HIV/AIDS, etc.
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Aids is man made.
I believe in evolution. I believe it co-exist with a supreme being
Ozone is fine
Vaccines have taken some lives
Big Bang- it's a marvelous theory.
I also believe we aren't alone in this universe.
More than one shooter at JFK.

Etc etc etc
 
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#380
#380
Grand Vol said:
It's not whizzing over anything. I find it completely hilarious that you think your children aren't old enough to grasp the concept of religion, yet feel they would be asked not to come back because of the sophisticated questions they would be asking. And furthermore, you feel it's wrong for children to not be able to think for themselves, yet don't want to expose them to religion because they cannot comprehend it.

You're like a train wreck with your inconsistencies. It's pitiful, yet so amusing.
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It's not about abstract concept of religion, it's the fear and indoctrination that their young minds are subjected to. A like minded community continually beating garbage into kids will eventually get through.

With enough pressure, especially from their parents - logic and reason will give way. Even for my children.

islamists_with_child_suicidebomber-300x199.jpg


is not fundamentally different from

Child-Praising-God-or-Getting-Blessed-or-Whatever-300x224.jpg
 
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#381
#381
Septic said:
Again, your use of the term theory is not correct.

The heliocentric and germ theory are both theory's and like evolution considered fact.

If you can produce one iota of scientific evidence that can withstand peer review that evolution, germ or the heliocentric theories are wrong - collect your nobel prize at the door on the way to the party.

Until then, get knowledged up on what the difference is between a hypothesis a theory and a law are.

Frankly, religion wouldn't muster anything further than being called a hypothesis.

The irony is that some of you are unwittingly making the case for less religion and more academics - the profound misunderstanding of the scientific method is astonishing.
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Ok Einstein. If we came from primates , where is the missing link? Mercy could not produce it, I am confident you cannot either.
 
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#382
#382
Septic said:
It's not about abstract concept of religion, it's the fear and indoctrination that their young minds are subjected to. A like minded community continually beating garbage into kids will eventually get through.

With enough pressure, especially from their parents - logic and reason will give way. Even for my children.

islamists_with_child_suicidebomber-300x199.jpg


is not fundamentally different from

Child-Praising-God-or-Getting-Blessed-or-Whatever-300x224.jpg
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May your children grow up to be Clergy in a church.
 
#387
#387
Septic said:
Millions of dead throughout the worlds history disagree with any notion that canned food drives, meals on wheels and christmas caroling are a "tremendous amount of good."
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Would you like for me to prove how stupid your statement is? Ok. Let's say for arguments sake that throughout history, deaths associated with religion are 1 billion. Now I don't think it's that high but let's use that number. Since you have stated the "worlds history" it proves even more how stupid and illogical your statement is.

How many millions of people are helped by meals on wheels, canned food drives, food banks, charities, soup kitchens, shelters, day care facilities, orphanages, marriage counseling, financial counseling everyday in America alone? How many people have their bills paid by churches when they have fallen on hard times because of an illness, death or disaster? How many people have been helped from committing suicide because they entered a church and spoke with a pastor? How many people have been consoled and made to feel better by a chaplain in a hospital? How many people have the Salvation Army helped? How man churches fix Thanksgiving meals for the less fortunate so they can enjoy a hot meal? How many churches buy families Christmas presents and give them food?

There is a church in Erwin, TN close to where my stepdad works that gives out thousands of dollars worth of food every month to those in need. The examples I have given represent a very small percentage of what tremendous good religion has performed. I didn't even bother to use other countries who are religious.

Yeah religion has done no tremendous good. I understand you don't believe in God and go to any length to denigrate religion and those who are religious. But please educate yourself and know what you're talking about before posting such stupid garbage.
 
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#389
#389
Septic said:
Millions of dead throughout the worlds history disagree with any notion that canned food drives, meals on wheels and christmas caroling are a "tremendous amount of good."
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Alter boy I'm quessing.
 
#390
#390
BartW said:
He also claims to be in the medical field, yet thinks vaccines can cause autism

:crazy:
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Shows how stupid you actually are. I personally do not believe vaccines DO cause autism. However there is SOME research that says they CAN cause autism. I recognize that there COULD be a link between vaccines and autism. That's what I said. You could be wrong. So could I. It's not such a cut and dry issue. It's like cancer. We don't know exactly what causes cancer. Smoking CAN cause cancer but we cannot say it DOES cause cancer.

Please do yourself a favor and let the adults speak. You need to confine yourself to the government sheep and kiddie table.
 
#391
#391
Grand Vol said:
Specifically what is Unconstitutional about it? The mixing of church and state? Already addressed:

.

If anything, it upholds a student's Right to free speech.
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(3) Ensure that a student speaker does not engage in speech that is obscene, vulgar, offensively lewd, indecent or that promotes illegal drug use; and
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By your logic and by that of the bill's, I guess Rastafaris are **** out of luck. Furthermore, who determines what religious beliefs are obscene, vulgar, lewd, or offensive? The state of Tennessee? This is ridiculous.

In theory, I suppose you're right about the free speech thing. It's absolutely ridiculous that a student needs a state-funded educational forum to proselytize, but I suppose you're right. Fact of the matter is, however, it will not be implemented in a fair way. And it won't take too long for the ACLU or someone with enough money and time on their hands to figure out how certain schools are derailing the dissent of religious minorities.
 
#392
#392
Gramps said:
Ok Einstein. If we came from primates , where is the missing link? Mercy could not produce it, I am confident you cannot either.
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I already told you that argument is fallacious and gave you the resource to understand why. If you choose not to learn, you can't be helped.
 
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#395
#395
More I think about it, the third clause I reference above is the only one really needed to prove the proposed law unconstitutional. Want to allow a religious free-for-all in schools, then how can you determine what is lewd, obscene, or offensive? For instance, I consider the Bible's stand on women, ethnicity, slavery, genocide, etc. offensive and lewd, but should I be the one determining this? This would seem to limit religious minorities and dissent.

The free speech one is more debatable, admittedly. But clause three seems to limit free speech.
 
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#396
#396
MercyPercy said:
You'll have to forgive me if I trust the smartest people on the planet(and my own reasoning skills) over volnation's finest fake scientists.
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Funny how some of those "smartest people on the planet" totally disagree with evolution. I wonder why that is?
 
#398
#398
volprof said:
More I think about it, the third clause I reference above is the only one really needed to prove the proposed law unconstitutional. Want to allow a religious free-for-all in schools, then how can you determine what is lewd, obscene, or offensive? This would seem to limit religious minorities.

The free speech one is more debatable, admittedly. But clause three seems to limit free speech.
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How exactly would it limit religious minorities?

Please don't stretch...
 
#399
#399
BigOrangeTrain said:
Would you like for me to prove how stupid your statement is? Ok. Let's say for arguments sake that throughout history, deaths associated with religion are 1 billion. Now I don't think it's that high but let's use that number. Since you have stated the "worlds history" it proves even more how stupid and illogical your statement is.

How many millions of people are helped by meals on wheels, canned food drives, food banks, charities, soup kitchens, shelters, day care facilities, orphanages, marriage counseling, financial counseling everyday in America alone? How many people have their bills paid by churches when they have fallen on hard times because of an illness, death or disaster? How many people have been helped from committing suicide because they entered a church and spoke with a pastor? How many people have been consoled and made to feel better by a chaplain in a hospital? How many people have the Salvation Army helped? How man churches fix Thanksgiving meals for the less fortunate so they can enjoy a hot meal? How many churches buy families Christmas presents and give them food?

There is a church in Erwin, TN close to where my stepdad works that gives out thousands of dollars worth of food every month to those in need. The examples I have given represent a very small percentage of what tremendous good religion has performed. I didn't even bother to use other countries who are religious.

Yeah religion has done no tremendous good. I understand you don't believe in God and go to any length to denigrate religion and those who are religious. But please educate yourself and know what you're talking about before posting such stupid garbage.
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Sounds to me like your step-dad is contributing to the hand out mentality that your ilk despises.

It's cute that you try so hard to be important.
 
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