Official Global Warming thread (merged)

So now Bart has refrained from using the graphs from obvious biased sources to posting Tyson quotes.
Lol. Obvious biased sources like NASA, NCDC, NSIDC, and various peer-reviewed scientific literature? I stopped posting graphs because people don't want to discuss real data. Information scares them.
Also anyone who questions the findings about global warming has to be a conspiracy theorist.
Y'all are accusing thousands of scientists over several decades of conspiring to hide the truth and push some mysterious (undefined) agenda. This is, by definition, a conspiracy theory.

conspiracy theory
noun

: a theory that explains an event or situation as the result of a secret plan by usually powerful people or groups
Don't ask questions. Obey. Believe what any scientist tells you because they are always right. The government has your best interest at heart. As a scientist, whenever you encounter someone who doesn't agree with your findings, default to labeling them as conspiracy theorists. Sounds like your MO Bart.
Do ask questions. Do NOT deny the scientific consensus because it makes you uncomfortable.
To become a world class architect and to design a skyscraper isn’t easy, but we non-architects can observe what we see, and accept that the building isn’t going to topple over in a hurricane. Do we presume to know how the foundation has to be built to support the building? Or what materials are used to give flexibility in a wind, but strong enough to not collapse? Mostly, we don’t, we trust that there isn’t a massive conspiracy to build unsafe skyscrapers because architects are being paid off by Big Concrete to use cheaper materials.

It’s the same with science. We can accept scientific principles without doing the research ourselves. But, and it’s a big but, if you want to dispute accepted science, then you have to bring science to the table not a “debate.” Science isn’t hard, but it isn’t easy either. You cannot deny basic scientific facts without getting a solid education, opening a scientific laboratory staffed with world-class scientists, and then publishing peer-reviewed articles that can help move the prevailing scientific consensus. You cannot spend an hour or a day or even a week Googling a few websites and then loudly proclaim that the scientific consensus is wrong; no, you need to do the hard work. Until you do, those of us who are skeptics and scientists get to ignore you, and we get to continue with the current consensus.
Why do you think science = government? Why do you think scientists are nefarious? You can’t insinuate that science is a conspiracy and be taken seriously.

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So now Bart has refrained from using the graphs from obvious biased sources to posting Tyson quotes. Also anyone who questions the findings about global warming has to be a conspiracy theorist.

Don't ask questions. Obey. Believe what any scientist tells you because they are always right. The government has your best interest at heart. As a scientist, whenever you encounter someone who doesn't agree with your findings, default to labeling them as conspiracy theorists. Sounds like your MO Bart.

My dad always said that any "any scientist" who says they know anything for A fact is a Fing moron who should be ignored.
He would site many examples of "facts" that were later proven false. His favorite was the atom being the smallest partical. Then we later broke it open and a lot of stuff came poring out.

Bart is young and needs time for reality to set in. Although I've reviewed the findings in this thread with my peers, and the early evidence of this peer reviewed data is that he's a moron.
 
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My dad always said that any "any scientist" who says they know anything for A fact is a Fing moron who should be ignored.
He would site many examples of "facts" that were later proven false. His favorite was the atom being the smallest partical. Then we later broke it open and a lot of stuff came poring out.

Bart is young and needs time for reality to set in. Although I've reviewed the findings in this thread with my peers, and the early evidence of this peer reviewed data is that he's a moron.

facepalm.gif




Classic. Facts don't exist and the discovery of subatomic particles soooo debunked atomic theory. Are you going to tell me how Columbus "overturned the consensus" too?

Do you realize science builds on itself?

If you're going to try to insult someone's intelligence learn how to spell. And for the love of god learn how to science.
 
facepalm.gif




Classic. Facts don't exist and the discovery of subatomic particles soooo debunked atomic theory. Are you going to tell me how Columbus "overturned the consensus" too?

Do you realize science builds on itself?

If you're going to try to insult someone's intelligence learn how to spell. And for the love of god learn how to science.

:popcorn:
 
facepalm.gif




Classic. Facts don't exist and the discovery of subatomic particles soooo debunked atomic theory. Are you going to tell me how Columbus "overturned the consensus" too?

Do you realize science builds on itself?

If you're going to try to insult someone's intelligence learn how to spell. And for the love of god learn how to science.

^^^^ he mad.



And a very observant scientist pick up on the fact that the dyslexic guy can't spell.
That may be the 1st thing you're right about.
 
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A sociologist surveyed climate science bloggers and published this article in Psychological Sciences:

NASA Faked the Moon Landing,Therefore (Climate) Science is a Hoax: An Anatomy of the Motivated Rejection of Science

In response to ‘skeptic’ complaints of self-selection bias, he repeated the experiment with a third-party professional survey firm who queried a sample representative of the US population (getting the same results):

The Role of Conspiracist Ideation and Worldviews in Predicting Rejection of Science

"The results indicated, perhaps not surprisingly, that there is an inverse correlation between espousal of free markets and belief in the scientific consensus on climate change. This free market-dominated rejection of scientific evidence is consistent with denial of important environmental and public health concerns in the past, most notably the link between cigarette smoking and lung cancer and the effects of acid rain on the environment. Once free-market ideologues make up their mind that complete government withdrawal from markets is the only way to ensure prosperity, then it’s not surprising to find them inclined to disbelieve even rigorous scientific evidence that would somehow point to more increased government regulation as a solution. This is of course independent of actual government regulation; all that matters is a belief in future government action. Sadly, the study also found that unfettered belief in free markets seems to make deniers skeptical of any scientific consensus involving the government, no matter what the field of study or the level of rigor. Simply put, ideology trumps facts.

What is much more intriguing is the very modest but positive correlation between rejection of climate change and the presence of a general conspiratorial ideology. People who reject climate change don’t believe equally in all the conspiracy theories listed in the questionnaire, but the general trend seems to hold. One of the common characteristics of most conspiracy theories is the omniscience and power they place in the hands of the government. JFK was apparently assassinated not by a single gunman but by a vast conglomerate primarily involving government agencies. The small group of industrial scientists who denied the link between cigarette smoking and lung cancer pointed to a powerful cabal of government-sponsored scientists who were orchestrating a dedicated effort to discredit tobacco companies. From 9/11 denial to HIV denial, the big nemesis is always the government. Some conspiracies by private corporations (for instance those involving vaccines and autism) are rampant on the left, but these pale in comparison to the number involving the government.

Seen through this lens it’s not surprising to find belief in laissez-faire capitalism tracking well with conspiracy theorizing since proponents of laissez-faire are inherently suspicious of the government. For instance the king of climate change denial, Senator James Inhofe, has constantly called climate change a government-sponsored “hoax”. Inhofe thinks that thousands of scientists all over the world combined with dozens of government agencies have somehow had the brilliance and capability to pull the wool over the eyes of the entire world. Scientists and government officials should feel flattered by the omniscience ascribed to them by climate change denialists if they hadn’t caused so much harm. "

Ironically ‘skeptics’ responded by claiming that it’s all part of a conspiracy involving university executives, the media, and the Australian government. This prompted the follow up:

Recursive Fury: Conspiracist Ideation in the Blogosphere in Response to Research on Conspiracist Ideation

:)

So which is it? Do you acknowledge the correlation between radical free-market fundamentalism, climate denial, and conspiracy theorizing (a trend we see in this thread), or is it all part of a conspiracy?

Bump.

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bumping your own posts, then adding cute images, nice

you're a much better troll than a scientist
 
bumping your own posts, then adding cute images, nice

you're a much better troll than a scientist

If only it paid the bills :)

I tried civil discourse for weeks after the last of you gave up. No more

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Trolling with facts: much more effective than trolling with hearsay
 
Just couldn't let it die eh...

How is OWS relevant? This discussion is about science denialism and conspiracy theories. From Hoofnagle's excellent denialism blog:

"Three can keep a secret if two are dead."
-Benjamin Franklin

What are denialist conspiracy theories and why should people be instantly distrustful of them? And what do they have to do with denialism?

Almost every denialist argument will eventually devolve into a conspiracy. This is because denialist theories that oppose well-established science eventually need to assert deception on the part of their opponents to explain things like why every reputable scientist, journal, and opponent seems to be able to operate from the same page. In the crank mind, it isn’t because their opponents are operating from the same set of facts, it’s that all their opponents are liars (or fools) who are using the same false set of information.

But how could it be possible, for instance, for every nearly every scientist in a field be working together to promote a falsehood? People who believe this is possible simply have no practical understanding of how science works as a discipline. For one, scientists don’t just publish articles that reaffirm a consensus opinion. Articles that just rehash what is already known or say “everything is the same” aren’t interesting and don’t get into good journals. Scientific journals are only interested in articles that extend knowledge, or challenge consensus (using data of course). Articles getting published in the big journals like Science or Nature are often revolutionary (and not infrequently wrong), challenge the expectations of scientists or represent some phenomenal experiment or hard work (like the human genome project). The idea that scientists would keep some kind of exceptional secret is absurd, or that, in the instance of evolution deniers, we only believe in evolution because we’ve been infiltrated by a cabal of “materialists” is even more absurd. This is not to say that real conspiracies never occur, but the assertion of a conspiracy in the absence of evidence (or by tying together weakly correlated and nonsensical data) is usually the sign of a crackpot. Belief in the Illuminati, Zionist conspiracies, 9/11 conspiracies, holocaust denial conspiracies, materialist atheist evolution conspiracies, global warming science conspiracies, UFO government conspiracies, pharmaceutical companies suppressing altie-med conspiracies, or what have you, it almost always rests upon some unnatural suspension of disbelief in the conspiracy theorist that is the sign of a truly weak mind. Hence, our graphic to denote the presence of these arguments – the tinfoil hat.

7269d1358544018-tin-foil-hat.jpg


Another common conspiratorial attack on consensus science (without data) is that science is just some old-boys club (not saying it’s entirely free of it but…) and we use peer-review to silence dissent. This is a frequent refrain of HIV/AIDS denialists like Dean Esmay or Global Warming denialists like Richard Lindzen trying to explain why mainstream scientists won’t publish their BS. The fact is that good science speaks for itself, and peer-reviewers are willing to publish things that challenge accepted facts if the data are good. If you’re just a denialist cherry-picking data and nitpicking the work of others, you’re out of luck. Distribution of scientific funding (another source of conspiracy from denialists) is similarly based on novelty and is not about repeating some kind of party line. Yes, it’s based on study-sections and peer-review of grants, but the idea that the only studies that get funded are ones that affirm existing science is nuts, if anything it’s the opposite."

Enjoy the ' local global warming' this weekend :cool:
 
Just couldn't let it die eh...

How is OWS relevant? This discussion is about science denialism and conspiracy theories. From Hoofnagle's excellent denialism blog:

"Three can keep a secret if two are dead."
-Benjamin Franklin

What are denialist conspiracy theories and why should people be instantly distrustful of them? And what do they have to do with denialism?

Almost every denialist argument will eventually devolve into a conspiracy. This is because denialist theories that oppose well-established science eventually need to assert deception on the part of their opponents to explain things like why every reputable scientist, journal, and opponent seems to be able to operate from the same page. In the crank mind, it isn’t because their opponents are operating from the same set of facts, it’s that all their opponents are liars (or fools) who are using the same false set of information.

But how could it be possible, for instance, for every nearly every scientist in a field be working together to promote a falsehood? People who believe this is possible simply have no practical understanding of how science works as a discipline. For one, scientists don’t just publish articles that reaffirm a consensus opinion. Articles that just rehash what is already known or say “everything is the same” aren’t interesting and don’t get into good journals. Scientific journals are only interested in articles that extend knowledge, or challenge consensus (using data of course). Articles getting published in the big journals like Science or Nature are often revolutionary (and not infrequently wrong), challenge the expectations of scientists or represent some phenomenal experiment or hard work (like the human genome project). The idea that scientists would keep some kind of exceptional secret is absurd, or that, in the instance of evolution deniers, we only believe in evolution because we’ve been infiltrated by a cabal of “materialists” is even more absurd. This is not to say that real conspiracies never occur, but the assertion of a conspiracy in the absence of evidence (or by tying together weakly correlated and nonsensical data) is usually the sign of a crackpot. Belief in the Illuminati, Zionist conspiracies, 9/11 conspiracies, holocaust denial conspiracies, materialist atheist evolution conspiracies, global warming science conspiracies, UFO government conspiracies, pharmaceutical companies suppressing altie-med conspiracies, or what have you, it almost always rests upon some unnatural suspension of disbelief in the conspiracy theorist that is the sign of a truly weak mind. Hence, our graphic to denote the presence of these arguments – the tinfoil hat.

7269d1358544018-tin-foil-hat.jpg


Another common conspiratorial attack on consensus science (without data) is that science is just some old-boys club (not saying it’s entirely free of it but…) and we use peer-review to silence dissent. This is a frequent refrain of HIV/AIDS denialists like Dean Esmay or Global Warming denialists like Richard Lindzen trying to explain why mainstream scientists won’t publish their BS. The fact is that good science speaks for itself, and peer-reviewers are willing to publish things that challenge accepted facts if the data are good. If you’re just a denialist cherry-picking data and nitpicking the work of others, you’re out of luck. Distribution of scientific funding (another source of conspiracy from denialists) is similarly based on novelty and is not about repeating some kind of party line. Yes, it’s based on study-sections and peer-review of grants, but the idea that the only studies that get funded are ones that affirm existing science is nuts, if anything it’s the opposite."

Enjoy the ' local global warming' this weekend :cool:

It's relevant because that's where people like you end up.
 
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