why are private prisons bad

#51
#51
joevol320 said:
hillary praised getting rid of private prisons. insinuating that the private prisons are the ones who are convicting criminals and sending them to prison.

last i check, prisons are not judges, juries or police. they don't arrest people, or convict them or sentence them.

she's saying that federal gov run prison will lead to less crime and convictions and fewer blacks in prison.
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In short, kick backs. Too much money for the private companies to avoid corruption, so you get lobbying for stiffer sentences, 3 strike laws, mandatory minimums etc, all because there is money to be made. Not saying some of those laws are all bad, but I prefer each case be tried on it's own merit and the punishment fit the crime.

This story is just one example:
Forbes Welcome
 
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#52
#52
joevol320 said:
why aren't they the answer?

do you think a fed run prison will suddenly solve the crime problem?

this is just miss-placed blame. changing from a private prison to a fed prison will not decrease or increase crime.

it's silly to think that changing from private prison to fed run prison will decrease crime.
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It doesn't have any effect on the crime rate, just the rate and years of incarceration. When you have contracts in place, you are obligated to meet those contracts, so you trend toward incarceration as the answer and away from ARD, probation, community service, rehab etc.
 
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#53
#53
LouderVol said:
Arizona
Private-prison contract and financial guarantees go to CCA

The Arizona Department of Corrections awarded a private-prison contract on Wednesday to Tennessee-based Corrections Corporation of America, the only bidder for the 20-year deal.

The state has agreed to a 90 percent occupancy rate for CCA, which will house up to 1,000 additional medium-security prisoners at its Red Rock facility in Eloy.
Tennessee
https://action.aclu.org/whoiscca


California, Texas, Ohio, Florida and Colorado
https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2015/jul/31/report-finds-two-thirds-private-prison-contracts-include-lockup-quotas/
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So here may be the smoking gun. CCA telling their clients they expect a minimum bed count to enter into a contract.

There are two ways to look at this.

1: CCA doesn't care about any difficulty with their contract occupancy rate clause the client may have, CCA expects to net such & such minimum per year, period.

2: CCA knows said clients know that CCA invests large sums in prison construction to meet certain bed counts.

And that the federal and state clients may own and operate other prisons within the jurisdiction the CCA prisons serve and therefore can, with relative ease, and at a lower cost per prisoner, reduce overcrowding by directing prisoners to meet CCA contract facilities bed quotas and which make those private facilities profitable. The fed or state reduces overcrowding, saves money, and CCA turns a profit.

There are probably several variations on the above that are the truth.
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#54
#54
Orangedogsrule said:
LouderVol said:
Arizona
Private-prison contract and financial guarantees go to CCA

The Arizona Department of Corrections awarded a private-prison contract on Wednesday to Tennessee-based Corrections Corporation of America, the only bidder for the 20-year deal.

The state has agreed to a 90 percent occupancy rate for CCA, which will house up to 1,000 additional medium-security prisoners at its Red Rock facility in Eloy.

So here may be the smoking gun. CCA telling their clients they expect a minimum bed count to enter into a contract.

There are two ways to look at this.

1: CCA doesn't care about any difficulty with their contract occupancy rate clause the client may have, CCA expects to net such & such minimum per year, period.

2: CCA knows said clients know that CCA invests large sums in prison construction to meet certain bed counts.

And that the federal and state clients may own and operate other prisons within the jurisdiction the CCA prisons serve and therefore can, with relative ease, and at a lower cost per prisoner, reduce overcrowding by directing prisoners to meet CCA contract facilities bed quotas and which make those private facilities profitable. The fed or state reduces overcrowding, saves money, and CCA turns a profit.

There are probably several variations on the above that are the truth.
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in most of the contracts referenced CCA was BUYING the prisons and requiring they be stocked. they aren't making new ones to handle state over crowding. CCA basically wrote a clause that ensures they always make a certain profit. Either by the state meeting the quota, or jacking their rates. On the states side they end up spending the same amount of money either way, at quota or below it. in most places people are going to want more bang for their buck, especially if its spent either way. ergo more prisoners are needed so the state doesn't look foolish when a review of the budget comes across. "why spend 1,000,000 on 1000 prisoners when we could be spending 1,000,000 on 1300 prisoners?"
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#56
#56
LouderVol said:
Orangedogsrule said:
LouderVol said:
Arizona
Private-prison contract and financial guarantees go to CCA



in most of the contracts referenced CCA was BUYING the prisons and requiring they be stocked. they aren't making new ones to handle state over crowding. CCA basically wrote a clause that ensures they always make a certain profit. Either by the state meeting the quota, or jacking their rates. On the states side they end up spending the same amount of money either way, at quota or below it. in most places people are going to want more bang for their buck, especially if its spent either way. ergo more prisoners are needed so the state doesn't look foolish when a review of the budget comes across. "why spend 1,000,000 on 1000 prisoners when we could be spending 1,000,000 on 1300 prisoners?"
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So under HiLIARly's plan do the state and federal governments have to buy back the prisons and CCA goes away. Or does CCA retain possesion of the real estate and the government simply becomes an operator, BUT NOW PAYING PERPETUAL RENT to CCA and whomever else. OMG what a scam!
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#57
#57
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Can't continue paying dividends if falling revenue results in the profits going away. The payout ratios of distressed companies won't exceed 100% for very long at all therefore the dividends are cut and the share price tanks. Simple financial math.
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Hence, the reason I said as long as they didn't lose too many contracts, they would regain value. There is a good article about them on Yahoo Finance.
 
#58
#58
This is one of those instances where people need to realize that the government inherently has responsible for certain things were the private sector does not need to be.
 
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#59
#59
hog88 said:
It's a stupid question, private prisons promote increased incarceration.
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For example...

Despite data, TN not declaring prison overcrowding emergency

"I would think that what a state would want is to a have a system that is somewhere between 90 and 100 percent full. You don't want to be at 110 percent, there are some states that are there. And you don't want to be at 70 or 80 percent because that means you've way overbuilt your capacity," Haslam said.
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So it would be ideal to have 90% occupancy in our prisons... as opposed to having closer to 0%?
 
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#60
#60
"If you build it... they will come."*



*Because we're gonna lobby the hell out of gubmint and make sure the policies that will incarcerate the most people possible are implemented. This **** wasn't cheap to build, we got bills to pay and summer houses to buy.
 
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#62
#62
hog88 said:
Just look at how the rate of incarceration has jumped since the advent of private prisons and the lobbying force behind them.

View attachment 120030

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/04/28/how-for-profit-prisons-have-become-the-biggest-lobby-no-one-is-talking-about/?utm_term=.e65c28918006

The Prison Industry in the United States: Big Business or a New Form of Slavery? | Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
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None of these graphs are an explanation.
I do know that the population has increased since 1920. I also know crime has increased since 1920.

you are implying causality, that more prisons leads to more people in jail. The stats don't speak, people do. Therefore it is your repsonsibilty to defend and support your claim. A graph isn't an argument. It's simply a stat, which I've shown has a more logical explanation.

I would say more crimes and criminals leads to more prisons. That would be a logical outcome.
 
#63
#63
volprof said:
The privatization of prisons is one of the worst developments in American history. When you "shareholderize" something like the conviction and imprisonment of Americans, you've lost yourself spiritually as a nation.

Paradoxically, the biggest advocates for private prisons are also the biggest loudmouths when it comes to complaining about the poor state of minority communities, drugs in society, and the welfare state. So, in essence, advocates for one of the biggest perpetrators of these things are among the biggest haters of these things.

If one were smarter, one would thing that the latter is used, knowingly, as a way to perpetuate the former. Almost as if the rhetoric of fear can be used to drive profits.
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I'm not an advocate of private prisons but I've yet to hear anyone actually provide an explanation of how more prisons result in more crimes and convictions. My wife has worked in the prosecutorial side for over a decade and she cannot fathom a connection of how police, prosecutors and judges could be persuaded or coerced to fill prisons or how they would even be conscious of where an inmate would end up, private or state run.
 
#64
#64
Roustabout said:
None of these graphs are an explanation.
I do know that the population has increased since 1920. I also know crime has increased since 1920.

you are implying causality, that more prisons leads to more people in jail. The stats don't speak, people do. Therefore it is your repsonsibilty to defend and support your claim. A graph isn't an argument. It's simply a stat, which I've shown has a more logical explanation.

I would say more crimes and criminals leads to more prisons. That would be a logical outcome.
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More laws for people to break equals more criminals. I wonder who benefits from more criminals?
 
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#65
#65
Rasputin_Vol said:
For example...

Despite data, TN not declaring prison overcrowding emergency



So it would be ideal to have 90% occupancy in our prisons... as opposed to having closer to 0%?
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Not the correct correlation.

I believe he means that it's closer to ideal to have no more jail facilities available than at most 10% down to preferably close to 0% of the expected population. And, extrapolating to: the lower the convict population, the lower the need for facilities to house them.

Once a jail is built, it's real world concrete and it has a maximum occupancy. Our local, state, and federal sentencing laws determine if it's above, at, or below capacity.

It would be great to see our prisons and county jails with no more occupancy than Sheriff Andy's in Mayberry. But that ain't the real world.
 
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#66
#66
hog88 said:
More laws for people to break equals more criminals. I wonder who benefits from more criminals?
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If folk took care of their own families, didn't sell drugs, didn't go out into to the world drunk, or some kinda krazy on bath salts or PCP, left other folk and their property alone, curbed their anger, the jails would be empty. But no, that don't happen does it?
 
#67
#67
Orangedogsrule said:
If folk took care of their own families, didn't sell drugs, didn't go out into to the world drunk, or some kinda krazy on bath salts or PCP, left other folk and their property alone, curbed their anger, the jails would be empty. But no, that don't happen does it?
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All true but prison sentences rarely fix most of these problems.
 
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#68
#68
hog88 said:
All true but prison sentences rarely fix most of these problems.
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It does indeed for most folk. The guy hitting his wife. The kid street racing, .... a few days in jail and they NEVER want to go back, they NEVER want to dissappoint their family again, ...
Then you have those who wear it like a badge of honor with prison tattoos all over.
 
#69
#69
I wonder if Hillary would prefer a private prison or a government run prison?
 
#70
#70
hog88 said:
All true but prison sentences rarely fix most of these problems.
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Well that gets into the argument of whether you find a prison sentence a deterrent or a punishment. There has to be some sort of punishment for crime.
 
#72
#72
hog88 said:
Looking at our prison population it appears that it's not a deterrent.
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It does deter the habitual incarcerated criminals from perpetrating an enormous amount of crimes on the law abiding population.

Deterrence is not rehabilitation to prevent recidivation; although rehabilitation should be one the equally primary goals of incarceration along with deterrence. The high number of recidivists is due to failed rehabilitation programs. Our system of crime punishment, deterrence, and rehabilation is seriously flawed. Crazy-as "Crazy is doing something that doesn't work over, and over, and over&over&over&over&over....".

search: criminal recidivism rates
 
#74
#74
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