why are private prisons bad

[Orangedogsrule]

It's a stupid question, private prisons promote increased incarceration.

Unless there is criminal activity going on between judges and the operators, I don't believe private prisons increase incarceration. I'm not saying there aren't crooked judges. That can, and probably does happen some. But that will not, by any count, seriously affect the rate of convictions.

Search these:

• war on drugs

(Interesting that since Nixon's establishment of the war on drugs, it was only Nixon, who started it, who spent more on treatment and rehabilitation than incarceration)

• federal prison incarceration rates

• U.S. Sentencing Commission


The only correlation I see is that, as the federal "War on Drugs" intensified resulting in overcrowding, the Fed turned to private comtractors as a cheaper, faster path to meeting the needs of judicial sentencing. And I recall seeing a special all those years ago showing how much better built and managed the private prisons were than the ancient overcrowded ones. Of course, we now consider those ancient.

Tell us how you believe private operators increase incarceration.

 

[hog88]

Unless there is criminal activity going on between judges and the operators, I don't believe private prisons increase incarceration. I'm not saying there aren't crooked judges. That can, and probably does happen some. But that will not, by any count, seriously affect the rate of convictions.

Search these:

• war on drugs

(Interesting that since Nixon's establishment of the war on drugs, it was only Nixon, who started it, who spent more on treatment and rehabilitation than incarceration)

• federal prison incarceration rates

• U.S. Sentencing Commission


The only correlation I see is that, as the federal "War on Drugs" intensified resulting in overcrowding, the Fed turned to private comtractors as a cheaper, faster path to meeting the needs of judicial sentencing. And I recall seeing a special all those years ago showing how much better built and managed the private prisons were than the ancient overcrowded ones. Of course, we now consider those ancient.

Tell us how you believe private operators increase incarceration.

The private prison industry has one of the biggest lobbyist organizations, who are they lobbying? Oh that's right the ****ers who pass the laws. This isn't hard.

 

[Orangedogsrule]

The private prison industry has one of the biggest lobbyist organizations, who are they lobbying? Oh that's right the ****ers who pass the laws. This isn't hard.

They lobby Congress. Do you believe they are lobbying for stricter laws, stricter sentencing, ... what?

Just because I say it's raining, and that pond water is green, so that's why the sky should be green because water, which is green, falls out of it, don't make it so.

Unless you provide proofs of your allegations, it's just what you think is so, not neccessarily what is so.

I'm not saying you won't find those proofs. But right now you're running with a logical fallacy.

 

[jvol1]

Too many quality issues with private prisons. No need to take bad and make it worse.

 

[hog88]

They lobby Congress. Do you believe they are lobbying for stricter laws, stricter sentencing, ... what?

Just because I say it's raining, and that pond water is green, so that's why the sky should be green because water, which is green, falls out of it, don't make it so.

Unless you provide proofs of your allegations, it's just what you think is so, not neccessarily what is so.

I'm not saying you won't find those proofs. But right now you're running with a logical fallacy.

The private prison industry first started in the late '80s and really took off in the mid 90's. Know what two pieces of legislation started popping up everywhere including at the federal level? They were the 3 strikes laws and mandatory minimums for drugs. Any coincidence?

 

[RollinVol]

Poor ol Joe doesn't even know judges have straight up been caught doing this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal

I would say you must feel really dumb right now, but for you, I assume that's just feeling completely normal.

i clicked on this thread too late. i am glad someone else remembered this.

 

[Roustabout]

This has to be the most ridiculous nonsense I've ever heard. That the number of Prisons somehow contributes to the number of crimes. Is anyone listening to this nonsense? How can anyone believe that the number of Prisons or prison beds actually impacts the number of criminals or crimes committed in this country?

My wife works for a local District Attorney's office there is no connection on how they prosecute cases based on the number of prison beds. In fact most of our prisons are at maximum capacity as it is.

Please somebody show me any type of connection between privately owned prisons and manipulating the system to result in convictions to occupy them. And show me any evidence, any study, any actual proof on this.

 

[hog88]

This has to be the most ridiculous nonsense I've ever heard. That the number of Prisons somehow contributes to the number of crimes. Is anyone listening to this nonsense? How can anyone believe that the number of Prisons or prison beds actually impacts the number of criminals or crimes committed in this country?

My wife works for a local District Attorney's office there is no connection on how they prosecute cases based on the number of prison beds. In fact most of our prisons are at maximum capacity as it is.

Please somebody show me any type of connection between privately owned prisons and manipulating the system to result in convictions to occupy them. And show me any evidence, any study, any actual proof on this.

Just look at how the rate of incarceration has jumped since the advent of private prisons and the lobbying force behind them.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/04/28/how-for-profit-prisons-have-become-the-biggest-lobby-no-one-is-talking-about/?utm_term=.e65c28918006

The Prison Industry in the United States: Big Business or a New Form of Slavery? | Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

 

[n_huffhines]

It's a stupid question, private prisons promote increased incarceration.

Not anymore than public prisons do.

 

[hog88]

Not anymore than public prisons do.

tremendously more

 

[LouderVol]

Arizona
Private-prison contract and financial guarantees go to CCA

The Arizona Department of Corrections awarded a private-prison contract on Wednesday to Tennessee-based Corrections Corporation of America, the only bidder for the 20-year deal.

The state has agreed to a 90 percent occupancy rate for CCA, which will house up to 1,000 additional medium-security prisoners at its Red Rock facility in Eloy.

Tennessee
https://action.aclu.org/whoiscca

Of course, it also helps their bottom line that many states have given the CCA sweetheart deals—such as contracts that force the government to pay extra money if any less than 90% of prison beds are full. Even worse, many of the CCA’s prisons are understaffed and plagued by horrific cases of prisoner abuse and neglect.

California, Texas, Ohio, Florida and Colorado
https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2015/jul/31/report-finds-two-thirds-private-prison-contracts-include-lockup-quotas/

An analysis of private prison contracts from across the United States reveals that state and local governments commonly enter into agreements that require them to keep prisons filled or pay for unused, empty beds.

In the Public Interest (ITPI), a Washington, D.C.-based research and policy group on public services, reported in September 2013 that it found so-called bed guarantees in around 65% of the more than 60 private prison contracts it analyzed, including contracts from Texas, Ohio, Colorado and Florida. The bed guarantees, or “lockup quotas,” ranged from 70% minimum occupancy in at least one California facility to 100% occupancy at three Arizona prisons. The most common bed guarantee was 90%.

 

[n_huffhines]

tremendously more

Can you explain why you think this?

 

[hog88]

Can you explain why you think this?

Just look above.

 

[volinbham]

I can see a situation where private companies have management contracts to run government owned prisons.

The government can set the parameters and the private management company can implement within those guidelines for a set management fee rather than an occupancy incentive.

 

[n_huffhines]

Just look above.

You have a good point about the lobbyists influencing politics, but CA alone has 31,000 members in its prison guard union. Either way this problem exists and I'm not sure privately owned prisons have more influence than state-owned do.

 

[volprof]

The privatization of prisons is one of the worst developments in American history. When you "shareholderize" something like the conviction and imprisonment of Americans, you've lost yourself spiritually as a nation.

Paradoxically, the biggest advocates for private prisons are also the biggest loudmouths when it comes to complaining about the poor state of minority communities, drugs in society, and the welfare state. So, in essence, advocates for one of the biggest perpetrators of these things are among the biggest haters of these things.

If one were smarter, one would thing that the latter is used, knowingly, as a way to perpetuate the former. Almost as if the rhetoric of fear can be used to drive profits.

 

[volinbham]

you don't have to shareholderize conviction and imprisonment to reap some benefits from contracting out parts of the larger system.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Maybe but cost shouldn't always be the main concern. heck the Pinkertons were probably more cost effective than the FBI.

The three amigos are more effective than the FBI... now.

 

[joevol320]

Poor ol Joe doesn't even know judges have straight up been caught doing this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal

I would say you must feel really dumb right now, but for you, I assume that's just feeling completely normal.

I'm not denying they do.

so you're saying this happens everyday all over America? no it doesn't. talking about being dumb.

so you give one example and you try to make it a blanket across the whole prison system. talking about being dumb.

 

[joevol320]

The privatization of prisons is one of the worst developments in American history. When you "shareholderize" something like the conviction and imprisonment of Americans, you've lost yourself spiritually as a nation.

Paradoxically, the biggest advocates for private prisons are also the biggest loudmouths when it comes to complaining about the poor state of minority communities, drugs in society, and the welfare state. So, in essence, advocates for one of the biggest perpetrators of these things are among the biggest haters of these things.

If one were smarter, one would thing that the latter is used, knowingly, as a way to perpetuate the former. Almost as if the rhetoric of fear can be used to drive profits.

who are these people? can you give some examples or a link?

 

[joevol320]

I can see a situation where private companies have management contracts to run government owned prisons.

The government can set the parameters and the private management company can implement within those guidelines for a set management fee rather than an occupancy incentive.

how does this cause more blacks to get arrested and convicted?

 

[LouderVol]

dumba** i'm not denying they do.

so you're saying this happens everyday all over America? no it doesn't. talking about being dumb.

so you give one example and you try to make it a blanket across the whole prison system. talking about being dumb.

Arizona
Private-prison contract and financial guarantees go to CCA

The Arizona Department of Corrections awarded a private-prison contract on Wednesday to Tennessee-based Corrections Corporation of America, the only bidder for the 20-year deal.

The state has agreed to a 90 percent occupancy rate for CCA, which will house up to 1,000 additional medium-security prisoners at its Red Rock facility in Eloy.

Tennessee
https://action.aclu.org/whoiscca


California, Texas, Ohio, Florida and Colorado
https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2015/jul/31/report-finds-two-thirds-private-prison-contracts-include-lockup-quotas/

bump. 65% of state and local prisons is pretty systemic. only reason thats not the feds anymore is because they were just cut from the feds.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I think it will regain most of its former value. It is a REIT (real estate investment trust) that paid about a 7% dividend at its former value. The dividend has stayed the same, so now it's about 10%, based on today's price. People will still invest in it, unless they lose all their contracts.

Can't continue paying dividends if falling revenue results in the profits going away. The payout ratios of distressed companies won't exceed 100% for very long at all therefore the dividends are cut and the share price tanks. Simple financial math.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Legalize the reefers and the entire business model of the prison industry, both public and privatized, will be disrupted. Lot of people will lose their jobs. Which isn't a bad thing for the tax payers.

 

[steve328]

Private prisons, at least in Tennessee, do not accept special needs inmates ( mentally unstable, elderly, medical problems ) and this lowers their cost per inmate compared to state prisons. Image the comparison of medical costs between a 30 year old and a 70 year old.
Also private prison officers are told to initiate disciplinary action for minor offenses, whereas state officers are encouraged to correct the inmate on the infraction ( hence the term Correctional Officer ). The reason this is important is that the more disciplinaries an inmate has, the less chance he has of making parole, therefore a longer incarceration. This costs the state more money, not the private prisons.
IMO, yes the private prisons have a sweetheart deal at the expense of inmates and taxpayers.