What's Changed? Two Observations

#51
#51
Rickster said:
Your posts are in plain sight for everyone to see. You said practically everything you needed to say when you referred to the Butch lovers. You appear to enjoy confrontation and you are taking the same approach to the Lady Vol staff as you did with the football staff. You bring no credibility to this board and you are just here to feed your desire to be confrontational with people who do not see things the same way as you.
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Yeah, I was sure proven wrong about Butch, wasn't I? And, it was a real problem that people became more devoted or acquiescent to Jones to the detriment of the program until it became too obvious to ignore by even the most blindly following coach supporter. Warlick isn't as bad as Jones, but the idea that you pledge loyalty simply because they are coach is a terrible tactic. Loyalty is earned through their actions and accomplishments. As such, I'm fine with confronting bad ideas when necessary.
 
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#52
#52
Unimane said:
Yeah, I was sure proven wrong about Butch, wasn't I? And, it was a real problem that people became more devoted or acquiescent to Jones to the detriment of the program until it became too obvious to ignore by even the most blindly following coach supporter. Warlick isn't as bad as Jones, but the idea that you pledge loyalty simply because they are coach is a terrible tactic. Loyalty is earned through their actions and accomplishments. As such, I'm fine with confronting bad ideas when necessary.
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You will never be loyal to anything when you use your own whim to gauge its success. What was done to the football team by that mess you call a football forum was embarrassing to every real fan. I'm sure that people like you got off on it. Got the taste of a little power to temporarily satisfy you huh? Now that you've come down, its time to do it again? Confrontation is a double edged sword. You give it...be prepared to receive it.
 
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#54
#54
volfanecs said:
When 99% of the threads talk about how long it has been since a final four, how can you call it nonsense. Vol fans consider anything less than a final four a losing season.
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The quote was that there were many fans who "expect better than Pat's success". That's untrue. Making the Final Four 25-30% of the time is a rather reasonable expectation for the program the caliber and talent level of Tennessee. Winning the NC isn't likely these days, but being in the mix is, or should be.
 
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#55
#55
Rickster said:
You will never be loyal to anything when you use your own whim to gauge its success. What was done to the football team by that mess you call a football forum was embarrassing to every real fan. I'm sure that people like you got off on it. Got the taste of a little power to temporarily satisfy you huh? Now that you've come down, its time to do it again? Confrontation is a double edged sword. You give it...be prepared to receive it.
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Power? Don't tell me you are one that thinks message boards wield some kind of authority or influence, please. What happened on the football board was that people had their heads in the sand for Jones for a few years until they woke up and saw him for what he was, a coach way over his head. It's a message board for honest discussion, not a fanzine. I give my opinion like anyone else and dish the criticism however I see fit. You can take it or leave it, but I'm not here to support my team by peddling some bogus propping up of a coach that doesn't deserve it in my commentary.
 
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#56
#56
volfanecs said:
When 99% of the threads talk about how long it has been since a final four, how can you call it nonsense. Vol fans consider anything less than a final four a losing season.
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I hear you, but with your definition be prepared for a lot of losing seasons.

In the past 9 years since TN last went to a F4, only 6 teams besides Uconn have been to a F4 more than once. And of those, only Notre Dame & Stanford have done it more than twice.

Bay
UL
UM
ND
SC
Stan
 
#57
#57
Unimane said:
Power? Don't tell me you are one that thinks message boards wield some kind of authority or influence, please. What happened on the football board was that people had their heads in the sand for Jones for a few years until they woke up and saw him for what he was, a coach way over his head. It's a message board for honest discussion, not a fanzine. I give my opinion like anyone else and dish the criticism however I see fit. You can take it or leave it, but I'm not here to support my team by peddling some bogus propping up of a coach that doesn't deserve it in my commentary.
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You are not here to support your team at all. You are here to feed yourself.
 
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#58
#58
Unimane said:
Well, that and I show up also to bring the Poster Formerly Known as Ivy League down a notch after observing her condescending tone towards UT grads and Tennesseans, as well.
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How did I miss this? Thanks for the heads up. Good riddance until she crawls back in another disguise...
 
#59
#59
Reading this arguing back and forth is exhausting.

It honestly does sound as though some are saying "My coach; right or wrong." And when someone lists the few who have been to the Final Four more than once in order to defend our absence, that begs these questions:

Why aren't we on that list, and what's wrong with expecting to see us there?
 
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#60
#60
1CHATTVOL said:
I hear you, but with your definition be prepared for a lot of losing seasons.

In the past 9 years since TN last went to a F4, only 6 teams besides Uconn have been to a F4 more than once. And of those, only Notre Dame & Stanford have done it more than twice.

Bay
UL
UM
ND
SC
Stan
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Oh no, this is not my definition. The feeling of the majority in this forum is not getting to a final four is a losing season. Holly is a "victim" of Lady Vol success.
 
#61
#61
creekdipper said:
Reading this arguing back and forth is exhausting.

It honestly does sound as though some are saying "My coach; right or wrong." And when someone lists the few who have been to the Final Four more than once in order to defend our absence, that begs these questions:

Why aren't we on that list, and what's wrong with expecting to see us there?
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There is nothing wrong with high hopes, but not expectations of a final four every year. When they do not make it, the season is a failure.
 
#62
#62
volfanecs said:
There is nothing wrong with high hopes, but not expectations of a final four every year. When they do not make it, the season is a failure.
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That's true (now, although we once enjoyed the lofty expectations of our northern neighbors). But I don't think it unrealistic to expect a Final Four every decade or so.
 
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#63
#63
creekdipper said:
That's true (now, although we once enjoyed the lofty expectations of our northern neighbors). But I don't think it unrealistic to expect a Final Four every decade or so.
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I agree, but look at the threads and reactions to a loss. Holly is in an impossible position. If she succeeds, it was expected in the first place. If she falls short she is a failure.
 
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#64
#64
I keep reading post promoting player accountability, well how about coaching accountability? We seem to notice player enept playing but how about enept coaching? I think you hold both players and coaches accountable.

Nared is trying too hard and is holding herself way too accountable. As far as Russell is concerned, maybe she does need more rest, however, after the first quarter she disappeared except for little spurts. The post for Ole Miss showed more energy than Russell. Carter mentioned once that if Russell wanted more touches she needed to put herself in position to receive the ball. She also made an observation, we have all seen, the Lady Vols need to quit trying to force the ball inside, especially when the other team sag in on Russell. The team is starting to be one dementional, come hell or high water, throw it into Russell. We all know that if Russell is hit in the mouth a couple of times she is useless. What is with Russell when huge post out hustle her up and down the court?

We need to get back on track and it is not just the players.
 
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#65
#65
teacherdean said:
I keep reading post promoting player accountability, well how about coaching accountability? We seem to notice player enept playing but how about enept coaching? I think you hold both players and coaches accountable.

Nared is trying too hard and is holding herself way too accountable. As far as Russell is concerned, maybe she does need more rest, however, after the first quarter she disappeared except for little spurts. The post for Ole Miss showed more energy than Russell. Carter mentioned once that if Russell wanted more touches she needed to put herself in position to receive the ball. She also made an observation, we have all seen, the Lady Vols need to quit trying to force the ball inside, especially when the other team sag in on Russell. The team is starting to be one dementional, come hell or high water, throw it into Russell. We all know that if Russell is hit in the mouth a couple of times she is useless. What is with Russell when huge post out hustle her up and down the court?

We need to get back on track and it is not just the players.
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I am not sure there would come a time a Lady Vol should be called useless. When Holly was an assistant, am I wrong or was she a buffer between the players and Pat? Now, she is trying to be the enforcer instead of their friend. Can you change in such a drastic way? I suspect Chris Daily will have the same problem at UCONN.
 
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#66
#66
teacherdean said:
I keep reading post promoting player accountability, well how about coaching accountability? We seem to notice player enept playing but how about enept coaching? I think you hold both players and coaches accountable.

Nared is trying too hard and is holding herself way too accountable. As far as Russell is concerned, maybe she does need more rest, however, after the first quarter she disappeared except for little spurts. The post for Ole Miss showed more energy than Russell. Carter mentioned once that if Russell wanted more touches she needed to put herself in position to receive the ball. She also made an observation, we have all seen, the Lady Vols need to quit trying to force the ball inside, especially when the other team sag in on Russell. The team is starting to be one dementional, come hell or high water, throw it into Russell. We all know that if Russell is hit in the mouth a couple of times she is useless. What is with Russell when huge post out hustle her up and down the court?

We need to get back on track and it is not just the players.
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Holly needs to own up that we do foolishly force the ball to MR. When MR is sandwiched between 2 or more defenders, she has no operating room. As MR does have a soft touch, she can take outside shots. Can't other LADY VOLS rebound?
 
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#67
#67
volfanecs said:
I am not sure there would come a time a Lady Vol should be called useless. When Holly was an assistant, am I wrong or was she a buffer between the players and Pat? Now, she is trying to be the enforcer instead of their friend. Can you change in such a drastic way? I suspect Chris Daily will have the same problem at UCONN.
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Chris Daily has been offered head coaching jobs, however, she knows her limitations and remains as Genno’s assistant head coach. I believe Holly is a good person and cares a great deal for her players. I think she would be better served as a buffer between players and a head coach. It is hard for her to change who she is. She may be tough in practice but that does not equate to her game personality, somehow, I doubt it. She seems to have a problem making on floor changes even when she calls a timeout. However, if the players are making the same game mistakes, they either are not working on the issue in practice, or they simply do not get it.
 
#68
#68
1CHATTVOL said:
I hear you, but with your definition be prepared for a lot of losing seasons.

In the past 9 years since TN last went to a F4, only 6 teams besides Uconn have been to a F4 more than once. And of those, only Notre Dame & Stanford have done it more than twice.

Bay
UL
UM
ND
SC
Stan
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Ok, so, of those six teams, which should we be behind as a program? Should we have lower expectations than Stanford or Notre Dame? When did this occur? When did we become simply a top 10-15 program rather than a top 2? And, finally, why is it, as it seems you are saying, unreasonable to expect 2 or more Final Fours within a 9 year frame?
 
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#69
#69
Unimane said:
Ok, so, of those six teams, which should we be behind as a program? Should we have lower expectations than Stanford or Notre Dame? When did this occur? When did we become simply a top 10-15 program rather than a top 2? And, finally, why is it, as it seems you are saying, unreasonable to expect 2 or more Final Fours within a 9 year frame?
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You have some very good questions, why should we settle for less and lower our standards? Holly has the number 1 class this year and a top 3 class coming in next year, shouldn’t we at least expect to have a top 5 program consistently? We are doing a fine job recruiting but are we developing that talent or depending upon their God given ability to get us to the elite 8 and nothing else.

Our present team started well but seems to have hit a brick wall. If we had been playing Missouri or Georgia last night, we would have lost. Holly has to have the answer, if not who does?
 
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#71
#71
Not sure where to put this post so I will post it here. I coach a youth club team of 9 yr old girls and we are gonna be coming to the South Carolina game. Is there anyway that my team can meet the lady vols and get some autographs. Any and all help/suggestions is welcomed. Thanks in advance.
 
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#72
#72
Unimane said:
Ok, so, of those six teams, which should we be behind as a program? Should we have lower expectations than Stanford or Notre Dame? When did this occur? When did we become simply a top 10-15 program rather than a top 2? And, finally, why is it, as it seems you are saying, unreasonable to expect 2 or more Final Fours within a 9 year frame?
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It is a much tougher task than it used to be 20 years ago to consistently get to the F4. More good players, more visibility for other schools.

It's unreasonable because almost no one has done it. And as we discussed, certainly hasn't been done by a WBB coach with 5 years' experience.

After CP3 left, Pat had the #1 class and several high recruiting classes but never got back to the F4. Is that because Pat wasn't a good coach?

Under HW, the first 4 seasons were 3 Elite 8's & a Sweet 16. Significant injuries prevented two F4, IMO.

UCONN has been able to secure the #1 overall player more than any other team in the past decade. He doesn't always get the top overall class, but does get the top player.

No one is asking for lower expectations, per se. But if missing the F4 by one round is enough to fire the coach, then maybe folks have lost touch a bit.
 
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#74
#74
Steelcurtain said:
Not sure where to put this post so I will post it here. I coach a youth club team of 9 yr old girls and we are gonna be coming to the South Carolina game. Is there anyway that my team can meet the lady vols and get some autographs. Any and all help/suggestions is welcomed. Thanks in advance.
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Why would you bother? Can't you read here what failures they are?

Sorry for the sarcasm, Steel. I'm not sure about groups. There is a table on the concourse by Section 113 (I think) where kids can get info to go on the floor and high 5 the team, etc. Marketing is the department in charge of fan experience.
 
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#75
#75
Okay , you made me LOL and spill hot coffee with that "Why would you bother....?"

my lawyer will be contacting you... :)
 
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