TrumpPutingate III: the beginning of the end

#11,801
#11,801
Mick said:
What do you think you know about the Super Secret Deep State that you believe Mueller is part of? Define the Deep State if you will. I have got to hear this from you.
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I didn’t say anything about the “ deep state “ I said ... It’s not logical to think 18+ people ( supposedly from two different political parties ) could keep one of the biggest secrets of our time under wraps in Washington DC for this long . Come on now , take your political hat off and think about that for a second .
 
#11,802
#11,802
0nelilreb said:
I didn’t say anything about the “ deep state “ I said ... It’s not logical to think 18+ people ( supposedly from two different political parties ) could keep one of the biggest secrets of our time under wraps in Washington DC for this long . Come on now , take your political hat off and think about that for a second .
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It's not a secret. Think about that. Just because you don't believe what is reported don't make it not in public view. I suppose you think they are not professional enough to do an investigation without handing the actual evidence to the press. There has been more leaks from Congress and the WH than Muellers team.
 
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#11,803
#11,803
Mick said:
It's not a secret. Think about that. Just because you don't believe what is reported don't make it not in public view. I suppose you think they are not professional enough to do an investigation without handing the actual evidence to the press. There has been more leaks from Congress and the WH than Muellers team.
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I agree with most of your post .. WH leaks have always been there for and against the administrations that are in power . Congress is a joke ( both parties ) a bunch of pompous drama queens that will say or do anything as it fits their most immediate needs. Now to my logical point , human nature is what drives people to “ tell what they know “ the more people you add to that equation the higher the chances of at least one telling somebody they know something they aren’t supposed to tell . Add the fact that in Washington it’s really like 6 degrees of Kevin bacon , everybody is connected to somebody that knows Mueller or the others on his team. Now think about all of them working on the biggest scandal in history , a sitting president that has colluded with Russia . Do we have one shred of actual proof that’s come out of that entire mess I just described or is it just enough hearsay to keep it going ?
 
#11,804
#11,804
0nelilreb said:
I agree with most of your post .. WH leaks have always been there for and against the administrations that are in power . Congress is a joke ( both parties ) a bunch of pompous drama queens that will say or do anything as it fits their most immediate needs. Now to my logical point , human nature is what drives people to “ tell what they know “ the more people you add to that equation the higher the chances of at least one telling somebody they know something they aren’t supposed to tell . Add the fact that in Washington it’s really like 6 degrees of Kevin bacon , everybody is connected to somebody that knows Mueller or the others on his team. Now think about all of them working on the biggest scandal in history , a sitting president that has colluded with Russia . Do we have one shred of actual proof that’s come out of that entire mess I just described or is it just enough hearsay to keep it going ?
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The Trump Tower meeting actually happened under the premise of collusion. Trump dictated Jr's. false claim about the meeting. You have to overlook quiet a bit to say nothing is there.
 
#11,805
#11,805
Mick said:
The Trump Tower meeting actually happened under the premise of collusion. Trump dictated Jr's. false claim about the meeting. You have to overlook quiet a bit to say nothing is there.
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I believe that’s too complicated , I honestly just think they were looking for as much dirt on Hillary as they could find . The terminology here I think will be important , Was it collision or Op-Ed research ? One is bad the other is excepted . I don’t thinks theres a nickles worth of difference between the two but it will matter what term you use . To be honest anytime you go to a source outside of the US you are colluding with someone . Look at how many countries are in someway tied to the Dossier .
 
#11,808
#11,808
Mick said:
An observation since Mueller's team has kept this under wraps for so long. The story breaks and the pure speculation that he didn't give Mueller anything incriminating. You're free to think it was Mueller's team if you want. Logic is not your strong suit.
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Since logic isn’t my strong suit maybe you can help me out Mick.

Mueller is running an impartial investigation and has had several leaks so far. Are you suggesting that they would only leak information detrimental to the president?

The White House has had this information for a long time as well. Do you really think The president could set on this for more than a day?
 
#11,809
#11,809
Sandman 423 said:
Since logic isn’t my strong suit maybe you can help me out Mick.

Mueller is running an impartial investigation and has had several leaks so far. Are you suggesting that they would only leak information detrimental to the president?

The White House has had this information for a long time as well. Do you really think The president could set on this for more than a day?
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McGahn on Thursday morning became the latest Trump administration official interviewed in the special counsel's ongoing investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election. It was reported in September that McGahn was on a list of officials who could potentially be interviewed as witnesses.
The top lawyer in the Trump administration was scheduled to return Friday for a second meeting, but was allowed to delay the appearance in order to assist the White House amid the fallout from Flynn's indictment.
12/02/17 03:22 PM EST

White House counsel McGahn interviews with Mueller's office

Your lack of logic has turned into outrage or are you just ignorant about the previous reporting on the matter?

Mueller is set to grill a key White House player as he examines whether Trump obstructed justice
Nov. 27, 2017

Top White House lawyer McGahn to take questions in Mueller probe
Mon, 20 Nov 2017

And dont forget about this:

The president’s lawyers said on Sunday that they were confident that Mr. McGahn had said nothing injurious to the president during the 30 hours of interviews. But Mr. McGahn’s lawyer has offered only a limited accounting of what Mr. McGahn told the investigators, according to two people close to the president.

That has prompted concern among Mr. Trump’s advisers that Mr. McGahn’s statements could help serve as a key component for a damning report by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, which the Justice Department could send to Congress, according to two people familiar with the discussions.
Trump Lawyers’ Sudden Realization: They Don’t Know What Don McGahn Told Mueller’s Team

The last confirms my opinion of where that information came from.
 
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#11,810
#11,810
Mick said:
McGahn on Thursday morning became the latest Trump administration official interviewed in the special counsel's ongoing investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election. It was reported in September that McGahn was on a list of officials who could potentially be interviewed as witnesses.
The top lawyer in the Trump administration was scheduled to return Friday for a second meeting, but was allowed to delay the appearance in order to assist the White House amid the fallout from Flynn's indictment.
12/02/17 03:22 PM EST

White House counsel McGahn interviews with Mueller's office

Your lack of logic has turned into outrage or are you just ignorant about the previous reporting on the matter?

Mueller is set to grill a key White House player as he examines whether Trump obstructed justice
Nov. 27, 2017

Top White House lawyer McGahn to take questions in Mueller probe
Mon, 20 Nov 2017

And dont forget about this:

The president’s lawyers said on Sunday that they were confident that Mr. McGahn had said nothing injurious to the president during the 30 hours of interviews. But Mr. McGahn’s lawyer has offered only a limited accounting of what Mr. McGahn told the investigators, according to two people close to the president.

That has prompted concern among Mr. Trump’s advisers that Mr. McGahn’s statements could help serve as a key component for a damning report by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, which the Justice Department could send to Congress, according to two people familiar with the discussions.
Trump Lawyers’ Sudden Realization: They Don’t Know What Don McGahn Told Mueller’s Team

The last confirms my opinion of where that information came from.
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Outraged? What world are you living in?

Also I may be ignorant but I couldn’t help but notice you didn’t bother to answer either of my questions. Please help me be more learned like you.
 
#11,812
#11,812
Sandman 423 said:
Since logic isn’t my strong suit maybe you can help me out Mick.

Mueller is running an impartial investigation and has had several leaks so far. Are you suggesting that they would only leak information detrimental to the president?

The White House has had this information for a long time as well. Do you really think The president could set on this for more than a day?
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There is no evidence that the Mueller team has leaked anything at all. What leaks there have been, are all coming from either Guiliani or someone else in Trump's legal team. Mueller's team is clearly not interested in winning the war for public opinion. They have given no interviews. I would bet most people could not name any of the other attorneys currently working on Mueller's team.
 
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#11,814
#11,814
lawgator1 said:
That's quite a reach and a lot of spin.

Articles like this immediately lose all credibility when they start of with the repeatedly debunked claim that the dossier is what lead to the FISA warrants.

It was A component but was one of many, many components. The Trump defenders' pathological adherence to trying to make it look like the dossier was the only source is obviously to launch into the fable that it is coming from their favorite foil, Clinton.

Stop. Just stop. You aren't fooling anyone.
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You are completely and totally brainwashed.

90% of what you post reads like a script from a CNN broadcast.
 
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#11,816
#11,816
Kristin Davis, the former "Manhattan Madam" who's friends with Trump ally Roger Stone, detailed her experience of being questioned in front of Special Counsel Robert Mueller's grand jury in the Russia investigation.

Davis, a friend and business partner of Stone, told Martha MacCallum on Fox News' "The Story" Monday night she didn't know of "any wrongdoing" between the Trump campaign and Russia, adding that Stone told her the truth about his relationship with WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.

"What [Stone] did discuss was that he did not have any direct communications with Julian Assange," said Davis in reference to the batch of leaked Democratic National Committee emails that WikiLeaks published in July 2016.

Davis, 43, added that she thought Mueller's grand jury was "legitmiately investigating whether collusion happened," and that the jurors questioned her about Stone's Aug. 21, 2016 tweet, in which he foreshadowed possibly forthcoming information on Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta.

Of the grand jury, Davis noted she felt that the jury and prosecutors, who now have known each other for months, "seem to be joking and [having] a fun sort of camaraderie" when they're in a room together, which she described as "concerning."

"There's nobody there to present another set of facts and that also is concerning to me," she added.



'Manhattan Madam' Kristin Davis reveals what Mueller grand jury asked her in Russia probe
 
#11,817
#11,817
#11,818
#11,818
Franklin Pierce said:
Kristin Davis, the former "Manhattan Madam" who's friends with Trump ally Roger Stone, detailed her experience of being questioned in front of Special Counsel Robert Mueller's grand jury in the Russia investigation.

Davis, a friend and business partner of Stone, told Martha MacCallum on Fox News' "The Story" Monday night she didn't know of "any wrongdoing" between the Trump campaign and Russia, adding that Stone told her the truth about his relationship with WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.

"What [Stone] did discuss was that he did not have any direct communications with Julian Assange," said Davis in reference to the batch of leaked Democratic National Committee emails that WikiLeaks published in July 2016.

Davis, 43, added that she thought Mueller's grand jury was "legitmiately investigating whether collusion happened," and that the jurors questioned her about Stone's Aug. 21, 2016 tweet, in which he foreshadowed possibly forthcoming information on Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta.

Of the grand jury, Davis noted she felt that the jury and prosecutors, who now have known each other for months, "seem to be joking and [having] a fun sort of camaraderie" when they're in a room together, which she described as "concerning."

"There's nobody there to present another set of facts and that also is concerning to me," she added.



'Manhattan Madam' Kristin Davis reveals what Mueller grand jury asked her in Russia probe
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Not a lawyer but isn't that how grand juries work? They are basically a rubber stamp for the prosecution. She sounds kind of ignorant.
 
#11,819
#11,819
Mick said:
No to both. BTW what has Mueller's team leaked. Provide a source.
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Mueller's office opposes hearing on leaks

Of coarse then there is this...

This is from Wjla
  • June 3, 2017: The Associated Press revealed Mueller’s team had taken over a criminal probe of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort.
  • July 22, 2017: Two sources claiming direct knowledge told Reuters Mueller’s investigators were hoping to use evidence of money laundering or other financial crimes to pressure Manafort to cooperate in the collusion probe.
  • August 3, 2017: Citing "people familiar with the matter," the Wall Street Journal reported a grand jury had been impaneled by Mueller. White House attorney Ty Cobb said at the time he was unaware of the grand jury’s existence.
  • August 9, 2017: The Washington Post reported FBI agents conducted a predawn raid of Manafort’s Virginia home on July 26 to seize documents and other materials related to Mueller’s investigation. According to the Post, people familiar with the search said a warrant sought financial records and the evidence collected included binders Manafort had prepared for his congressional testimony.
  • August 24, 2017: "A source close to the investigation" provided Fox News with new details of the raid of Manafort’s house and claimed it was “heavy-handed, designed to intimidate.”
  • August 25, 2017: "People familiar with the matter" informed the Wall Street Journal that Mueller was investigating Flynn’s involvement in a private effort to obtain Hillary Clinton’s email from Russian hackers.
  • August 28, 2017: According to NBC News, three sources said Mueller’s investigators were focused on Trump’s role in writing a response to media reports about a meeting between campaign officials and Russians at Trump Tower in June 2016.
  • September 1, 2017: The Washington Post reported Mueller’s investigators had a copy of a draft letter prepared by Trump aide Stephen Miller to justify the firing of Comey in May 2017.
  • September 20, 2017: Emails reportedly turned over to Mueller’s team and Senate investigators leaked to the Washington Post revealed that Manafort offered to provide private briefings to a Russian billionaire with ties to the Kremlin during the 2016 campaign.
  • October 4, 2017: Reuters cited three "sources familiar with the investigation" saying that Mueller’s team had taken over the FBI’s inquiries into a dossier of allegations regarding Trump’s Russia ties compiled by former British spy Christopher Steele. Two officials also reportedly told Reuters Mueller was looking into whether Manafort or others helped the Kremlin target hacking efforts and social media posts to influence the election.
  • October 27, 2017: "Sources briefed on the matter" told CNN that the first charges in Mueller’s investigation had been filed under seal. The following Monday, charges were unsealed Manafort and campaign aide Robert Gates, as well as a guilty plea by former adviser George Papadopoulos.
  • November 5, 2017: NBC News reported multiple sources said Mueller had enough evidence to bring charges against Flynn and his son. According to NBC, the FBI was also investigating a possible effort by Flynn to extradite a Muslim cleric in the U.S. whom Turkish President Recep Erdogan blamed for a coup attempt.
  • November 16, 2017: The Wall Street Journal cited a "person familiar with the matter" reporting that Mueller's team had subpoenaed Russia-related documents from Trump's campaign, including documents and emails written by several campaign officials.
  • December 2, 2017: Multiple "people familiar with the matter" told the Washington Post that former top counterintelligence official Peter Strzok was removed from Mueller’s team because of anti-Trump texts between him and an FBI attorney with whom he was having an affair. Details of many of those texts, which were under investigation by the Department of Justice Inspector General’s Office, have since been leaked to various media outlets.
  • January 2, 2018: A source detailed the physical characteristics, clothing, race, and gender of grand jury members to the New York Post and alleged that the grand jury room “looks like a Bernie Sanders rally.”
  • February 17, 2018: CNN cited anonymous sources stating that Gates was close to negotiating a plea deal with Mueller and that new charges against Manafort were being prepared. Less than a week later, Gates entered a guilty plea to conspiracy and lying to the FBI, and a superseding indictment was filed against Manafort.
  • February 27, 2018: CNN reported that three "people familiar with the matter" said Mueller had recently questioned witnesses about Trump’s business activities in Russia and negotiations surrounding a potential Trump Tower in Moscow.
  • February 28, 2018: An unnamed former Trump campaign aide told CNN Mueller’s team asked about comments former White House Communications Director Hope Hicks made during her interview with investigators about possible contacts between the campaign and Russian operatives.
  • March 2, 2018: Witnesses and others familiar with the investigation reportedly told NBC News Mueller’s team was asking questions about Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner’s business ties. The following week, NBC cited sources familiar with the matter saying Qatari officials withheld damaging information about the United Arab Emirates’ influence on Kushner from Mueller.
  • March 3, 2018: According to the New York Times, Mueller was looking into attempts by the United Arab Emirates to buy political influence on Trump and the role of Lebanese-American businessman George Nader.
  • March 4, 2018: Axios obtained a copy of a subpoena sent to a former Trump campaign official by Mueller’s team. Sam Nunberg later confirmed he was the source and spoke extensively to the media about the investigation.
  • March 7, 2018: "People familiar with the matter" told the Washington Post Mueller had evidence from a cooperating witness that a secret meeting in Seychelles between a Trump ally and a Russian official prior to inauguration was an attempt to establish a back channel between the administration and the Kremlin.
  • March 15, 2018: The New York Times reported that Mueller had subpoenaed documents from the Trump Organization.
  • April 9, 2018: The New York Times learned federal investigators had raided Trump attorney Michael Cohen’s office and hotel room. Hours later, sources told the Washington Post Cohen was under investigation for possible bank fraud and campaign finance violations.
Now, I agree that not all the leaks came from Muellers camp but one would have to be pretty obtuse to believe that none of the leaks did.
 
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#11,820
#11,820
EPA unveils new Trump plan gutting Obama power plant rules

The Trump administration on Tuesday unveiled its plan to replace former President Obama's Clean Power Plan regulations, which imposed new restrictions on coal-fired power plants that President Trump vowed to unravel.
The new plan will set off a huge battle with environmental groups, who argue it would exacerbate global warming and have promised to fight it in court.
The plan is being called the Affordable Clean Energy (ACE) rule and was signed by Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) acting Administrator Andrew Wheeler on Monday.
...
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