The value of our strong OOC schedules

#51
#51
GoVols876 said:
Where is this pride coming from?

This program is not good right now and dumping the Oregon, Oklahoma, Ohio State, Nebraska's off our schedule gives us the best chance of getting back to where we all thing this program belongs.

These games demoralize the team, fanbase, students, and most importantly, the recruits. What do we get out of them? Very little.
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The team appears energized...I'm a fan (I'm stoked!)...my niece is a Junior at UT (says the place is JUMPING)...recruits are knocking each other down to hop on board!....other than that?....your post is spot on! :eek:k: ....alas we shall play ALL of our scheduled games...no nice soft moist buyouts for the good guys. :cray:
 
#52
#52
I think we should schedule four non-conference games that we can win. Then you only have to win two conference games to go to a bowl game Vandy and Kentucky. I figure when we get really good in a couple of years all the teams like Oklahoma, Oregon, etc. will run and hide and will not want to play us. I know we got a home game coming against Oklahoma and I bet that is the last time we will see them for a while.
 
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#53
#53
GoVols876 said:
Where is this pride coming from?

This program is not good right now and dumping the Oregon, Oklahoma, Ohio State, Nebraska's off our schedule gives us the best chance of getting back to where we all thing this program belongs.

These games demoralize the team, fanbase, students, and most importantly, the recruits. What do we get out of them? Very little.
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I don't think recruits want to play Austin Peay, and 4 other creampuffs a year. They want to play against Top Notch competition. If they wanted to play four creampuffs a year they would go to Vanderbilt.
 
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#54
#54
GoVols876 said:
Another year brings another attempt to educate you heathens about the disaster that these high-caliber OOC games have been to our beloved program.

- Over the past 12 years, Tennessee is an astounding 3-8 (.2727%) in these high-caliber OOC games.
- Tennessee isn’t just losing these games, they are getting trashed. Tennessee average margin of defeat is a horrifying 18.5 points.
- 3 times in the past 12 years, these games have prevented Tennessee from attending a bowl game.

Missing a bowl game doesn’t just hurt recruiting; it also closes the door to 12-15 additional practices with the team. That’s crippling! It equates to almost a full spring practice schedule that we are missing out on. For what? What did we gain for signing up to get drummed by the Ducks by 45 points last year? A little bit more name recognition? About 15 minutes of excitement for the fan base until Oregon starting taking it seriously? Not having to listen to the grumblings about another boring scrimmage game?

The truth of the matter is that these games are crippling Tennessee’s ability to rebuild. They are hindering the efforts to build confidence within our program and ripping 12-15 practices away from us when we need them most.

You don’t have to look too far to see the wisdom in avoiding these games, just look down the road in Nashville when a historically horrid Vanderbilt program starting being competitive. How did they turn the program around so quickly? Because of great coaching and avoiding preventable embarrassments by scheduling wins instead of more exciting trashings.

Don’t come here posting about how these game are scheduled years in advance and unavoidable at this point. The fact that we cleared UNC off our schedule in 2011/2012 tells you everything you need about how unavoidable these games truly are.

Predictions for the 2014 season point to a very similar result. A 5-7 team missing out on another bowl game because we opted to get trounced by another high-caliber opponent, this time Oklahoma. Tennessee will move to 3-9 (.250%) and will once again miss 12-15 invaluable practices when we need them most.

Hopefully our athletic department can figure out how to help this program rebuild instead of continuing to hinder them for the sake of their pride.
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most of these games were scheduled when UT was really good. If this was 1997 no one would care who we scheduled...just like no one cares we have Va tech and hillbilly U scheduled for the future...just take some lumps and get better
 
#55
#55
Volfan2012 said:
I think we should schedule four non-conference games that we can win. Then you only have to win two conference games to go to a bowl game Vandy and Kentucky. I figure when we get really good in a couple of years all the teams like Oklahoma, Oregon, etc. will run and hide and will not want to play us. I know we got a home game coming against Oklahoma and I bet that is the last time we will see them for a while.
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This is exactly the reason I'm against the idea. A bowl game is a reward. I don't think that only beating Kentucky, Vanderbilt, and 4 OOC cupcakes is deserving of a reward. On the contrary, I would come closer to saying that losing to Vanderbilt or Kentucky should make you ineligible for a bowl regardless of record.
 
#57
#57
Volfan2012 said:
I think we should schedule four non-conference games that we can win. Then you only have to win two conference games to go to a bowl game Vandy and Kentucky. I figure when we get really good in a couple of years all the teams like Oklahoma, Oregon, etc. will run and hide and will not want to play us. I know we got a home game coming against Oklahoma and I bet that is the last time we will see them for a while.
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That is pathetic. What have you really proven at that point besides nothing? Sack up!

Quaint88 said:
This is exactly the reason I'm against the idea. A bowl game is a reward. I don't think that only beating Kentucky, Vanderbilt, and 4 OOC cupcakes is deserving of a reward. On the contrary, I would come closer to saying that losing to Vanderbilt or Kentucky should make you ineligible for a bowl regardless of record.
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I agree. Why set the bar for the lowest setting?
 
#59
#59
Just saying you have a tough conference schedule isnt going to be good enough. Partially because every other team in your conference has the same argument. So when you are splitting hairs between the top two or three sec teams to determine who makes it in the playoff, the difference can easily end up being who played the tougher ooc. Imagine a scenario in which sec #1 12-0 and #2 11-1 play in the championship game while sec #3 11-1 is idle. what if we sec #2 wins and we have a 12-1, 12-1, 11-1 top 3 in the sec at the end of the year? sec champ goes to the playoff lets say. Many sec people seem to think getting two teams in the playoff is almost a shoe in (okay whatever). if that's the case, how does the playoff committee split hairs between the champ game loser at 11-1 and the #3 team 11-1? head to head? what if they didnt play? i bet you dollars to donuts if one of them beat a good team in ooc, and the other played cupcakes, the team with the tougher ooc takes it. Small example but admittedly very possible as very similar scenarios play out almost yearly. OOC is extremely important if you want to impress the people who are responsible for choosing who gets in.

In reality I look at it like this: if your goal is to play for all the marbles, if you want to win the national championship and claim to be the best, really you have little room to worry about playing a toughie in the first few weeks of the season. If you want to be the best, surely a decent quality ooc shouldnt be any issue to you. OU has been doing it for years and years. It's awesome from a fan perspective. Isnt it cool playing OU and not southeastern west north a&m tech? I think its cool playing Tennessee instead of william & mary.
 
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#60
#60
Boca Vol said:
So dumping these marquis match-ups in favor of the Austin Peay's of the world will help UT get back to where it belongs? :crazy:

I'm sorry, but going 6-6 (all UT had to do was beat Vandy to accomplish this last season) and going to a bowl game in Shreveport or B'ham doesn't do anything for this program. It's putting lipstick on a pig.

These games are great for Butch Jones. Odds are UT isn't going to beat the Oregons and Oklahomas of the world but if UT could somehow put on a good show in Norman, he wins by getting the fanbase pumped. Look at how pumped this place was last year after the UGA game...which was a loss, mind you.

So back to last year, would you really be that excited about last season if UT had dumped Oregon for another cream-puff which would have given UT 6 wins but the 6 losses were to (UGA, UF, Bama, Auburn, Mizzou, and Vandy)? That wouldn't have proved squat. Look at Miss State's schedule from last year. They went to a bowl with 6 pathetic wins (Ole Miss was a decent win). There is no hype surrounding them this year.
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You have valid points :good!:... and its easy to see your side of the debate, but we aren't particularly in the shape UT is used to being in. Although our stardards are still high and we want to be a Nat'l Championship team, we aren't there. If you want to take a second to be realistic, we need to show improvement this year, and reaching a bowl game is.

In the vol reports is talks about how none of our players have played in a bowl game, and you think that they wouldnt want to practice for it. Truth is, its a milestone for this team right now and our players would be estatic knowing that we are changing and returning to where UT needs to be, and by ignoring that you are being quite delusional. How does Oregon and Oklahoma help a team that is trying to come back to life and beat death.

Like someone posted earlier a 5 win team and a 8 win team in the SEC is a MAJOR difference. If we get to winning 8-9 games this or next year THEN would be a great time to start looking to play hard OOC teams to make sure you move up the top 25 to qualify for the playoffs. Are we even worried about the TOP 25 right now and making sure we deserve to be in the top 4 this year. NOT QUITE.
 
#61
#61
Midnight Toker said:
Just saying you have a tough conference schedule isnt going to be good enough. Partially because every other team in your conference has the same argument. So when you are splitting hairs between the top two or three sec teams to determine who makes it in the playoff, the difference can easily end up being who played the tougher ooc. Imagine a scenario in which sec #1 12-0 and #2 11-1 play in the championship game while sec #3 11-1 is idle. what if we sec #2 wins and we have a 12-1, 12-1, 11-1 top 3 in the sec at the end of the year? sec champ goes to the playoff lets say. Many sec people seem to think getting two teams in the playoff is almost a shoe in (okay whatever). if that's the case, how does the playoff committee split hairs between the champ game loser at 11-1 and the #3 team 11-1? head to head? what if they didnt play? i bet you dollars to donuts if one of them beat a good team in ooc, and the other played cupcakes, the team with the tougher ooc takes it. Small example but admittedly very possible as very similar scenarios play out almost yearly. OOC is extremely important if you want to impress the people who are responsible for choosing who gets in.

In reality I look at it like this: if your goal is to play for all the marbles, if you want to win the national championship and claim to be the best, really you have little room to worry about playing a toughie in the first few weeks of the season. If you want to be the best, surely a decent quality ooc shouldnt be any issue to you. OU has been doing it for years and years. It's awesome from a fan perspective. Isnt it cool playing OU and not southeastern west north a&m tech? I think its cool playing Tennessee instead of william & mary.
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Is UT at the point of having 11-1 12-0 season and winning HUGE OOC games? Fill me in. Not being hateful, but your expectations exceed where our program is right now. I definitely agree that the team should always strive for excellence and championships, but are we worried about being in the TOP 5 right now or getting some much need wins under our belt coming off of a losing season.

If Coach Jones was asked today to make a statement on what he wants and truly feels his team is ready to accomplish(which he would never say anything besides "ALL we are worried about is Utah St.), what would his answer be going undefeated or something close to it, or showing some definite improvement in the right direction and winning a bowl game.
 
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#63
#63
BigTCountry said:
You have valid points :good!:... and its easy to see your side of the debate, but we aren't particularly in the shape UT is used to being in. Although our stardards are still high and we want to be a Nat'l Championship team, we aren't there. If you want to take a second to be realistic, we need to show improvement this year, and reaching a bowl game is.

In the vol reports is talks about how none of our players have played in a bowl game, and you think that they wouldnt want to practice for it. Truth is, its a milestone for this team right now and our players would be estatic knowing that we are changing and returning to where UT needs to be, and by ignoring that you are being quite delusional. How does Oregon and Oklahoma help a team that is trying to come back to life and beat death.

Like someone posted earlier a 5 win team and a 8 win team in the SEC is a MAJOR difference. If we get to winning 8-9 games this or next year THEN would be a great time to start looking to play hard OOC teams to make sure you move up the top 25 to qualify for the playoffs. Are we even worried about the TOP 25 right now and making sure we deserve to be in the top 4 this year. NOT QUITE.
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How will we see improvement this season if we don't play the same caliber of schedule as last season? If we trade Oklahoma for an OOC cupcake, we can go 2-6 in the SEC and go bowling. Would going 2-6 in the SEC this season show improvement over last season's 2-6 finish? Would going 4-0 out of conference instead of 3-1 really show improvement over last season in this scenario? No, it would show that we've redefined success as something we can more easily reach right now instead of just patiently holding the standard a little longer. There are 6 games on the schedule that we should win if we've really improved, even with Oklahoma on there. I look forward to actually being able to tell if that has happened.
 
#64
#64
Quaint88 said:
How will we see improvement this season if we don't play the same caliber of schedule as last season? If we trade Oklahoma for an OOC cupcake, we can go 2-6 in the SEC and go bowling. Would going 2-6 in the SEC this season show improvement over last season's 2-6 finish? Would going 4-0 out of conference instead of 3-1 really show improvement over last season in this scenario? No, it would show that we've redefined success as something we can more easily reach right now instead of just patiently holding the standard a little longer. There are 6 games on the schedule that we should win if we've really improved, even with Oklahoma on there. I look forward to actually being able to tell if that has happened.
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This guy gets it!

Even with Oregon on the schedule last season all UT had to do to go to a bowl was beat Vandy. Yes, there was the UGA game where UT was in position to win. But it boiled down to beating Vandy.

As this poster pointed out what does it prove to drop Oklahoma for a patsy? Nothing.

It's true that no one on this UT team has played in a bowl game. I promise if UT goes 6-6 and plays in Shreveport or Birmingham there won't be any chest puffing going on in the program.
 
#66
#66
Quaint88 said:
How will we see improvement this season if we don't play the same caliber of schedule as last season? If we trade Oklahoma for an OOC cupcake, we can go 2-6 in the SEC and go bowling. Would going 2-6 in the SEC this season show improvement over last season's 2-6 finish? Would going 4-0 out of conference instead of 3-1 really show improvement over last season in this scenario? No, it would show that we've redefined success as something we can more easily reach right now instead of just patiently holding the standard a little longer. There are 6 games on the schedule that we should win if we've really improved, even with Oklahoma on there. I look forward to actually being able to tell if that has happened.
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Well, I guess everyones opinion for the road to success is quite different. In my case, there's alot of opponents out there that wouldnt be such a headache to have on the schedule (our schedule is obviously one of the hardest) that are still much more challenging than some austin peay team were going to beat 56-0. Personally, I think an OOC team such as Ok is just a bad fit for our team this year when it comes to depth, timing of game, toughness, maturity. Tennessee doesnt need to be able to beat some OKlahoma team to be put on the map, thats really all I'm getting at. It doesnt benefit us any to play them in a year where our goal is mainly to go bowling, and puts our players in a super physical game before entering in to SEC play. So say we lose worley again this game because their DLine due to our young line in that game, or say we lose AJ or Hurd.

Injuries may be a weak arguement bc they can happen in any game and I admit Im reaching to get my point across, but at the end of the day I dont feel sorry for our guys about the schedule and feel they should still go bowling regardless, but it should be possible to still show improvement while replacing them with an easier team. Who say we have to go 2-6 in the SEC and/or play tough OOC schedules to show improvement?

From where we were last year, I think improvement is going to be seen regardless of record if you just watch the game. We played so bad at points that anything else would be an improvement. So to answer question like I said before making a bowl game and winning it would be improvement. We have the SEC games to worry about. We dont need two Alabama's on the schedule to prove anything. Winning is strategic and giving your young team the most challenging road schedule wise will not necessarily always pay off.
 
#67
#67
Boca Vol said:
This guy gets it!

Even with Oregon on the schedule last season all UT had to do to go to a bowl was beat Vandy. Yes, there was the UGA game where UT was in position to win. But it boiled down to beating Vandy.

As this poster pointed out what does it prove to drop Oklahoma for a patsy? Nothing.

It's true that no one on this UT team has played in a bowl game. I promise if UT goes 6-6 and plays in Shreveport or Birmingham there won't be any chest puffing going on in the program.
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So 1. What did we prove against the big O last year. Would you rather get beat 65-0 or get an average tough W. Probably doesnt help our recruiting in some areas for the nation to see were that far from competing in a top 5 matchup

2. So you dont want this team to imrove to 6-6 or 7-5 and go bowling cause they will get a crappy bowl game. Im pretty positive our players have been sitting at the house the last few years. Their not puffing their chest about that either.
 
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#68
#68
BigTCountry said:
Well, I guess everyones opinion for the road to success is quite different. In my case, there's alot of opponents out there that wouldnt be such a headache to have on the schedule (our schedule is obviously one of the hardest) that are still much more challenging than some austin peay team were going to beat 56-0. Personally, I think an OOC team such as Ok is just a bad fit for our team this year when it comes to depth, timing of game, toughness, maturity. Tennessee doesnt need to be able to beat some OKlahoma team to be put on the map, thats really all I'm getting at. It doesnt benefit us any to play them in a year where our goal is mainly to go bowling, and puts our players in a super physical game before entering in to SEC play. So say we lose worley again this game because their DLine due to our young line in that game, or say we lose AJ or Hurd.

Injuries may be a weak arguement bc they can happen in any game and I admit Im reaching to get my point across, but at the end of the day I dont feel sorry for our guys about the schedule and feel they should still go bowling regardless, but it should be possible to still show improvement while replacing them with an easier team. Who say we have to go 2-6 in the SEC and/or play tough OOC schedules to show improvement?

From where we were last year, I think improvement is going to be seen regardless of record if you just watch the game. We played so bad at points that anything else would be an improvement. So to answer question like I said before making a bowl game and winning it would be improvement. We have the SEC games to worry about. We dont need two Alabama's on the schedule to prove anything. Winning is strategic and giving your young team the most challenging road schedule wise will not necessarily always pay off.
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I agree that we will see improvement on the field even if not in our record, but I want an improved record to really be an improvement and not the result of weaker scheduling. Last year against Oregon, we gave up 59 unanswered points. That is very unlikely to happen when both teams play in the same division of college football unless we just quit. I think the Oklahoma game this year will show us exactly where we are from last year because we will be playing on the road against a much better team that we aren't very familiar with again. I want to see what happens when the game starts to get out of hand, and I want to see improvement in how this team handles it. Will they give up 50 unanswered? Will they be mentally tough enough to make it a game again at some point, even if they still end up losing by a couple of scores before it's over? These are things I want to know, but we have to be in the same situation to find out. For me, it's not about being put on the map. It's about measuring success with the same ruler this year as last year.
 
#69
#69
Ole Rocky said:
Win all our home games, except bama
lose all our away games, except for vandy
Bowl eligible.
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Beating Florida to go 7-5 sounds pretty good to me, but it could even go like this:

Win all our home games, except bama and Florida
lose all our away games, except for vandy
Bowl eligible at 6-6 without having to beat anybody who is any good on the road.
 
#70
#70
Rudy123 said:
What happens if we lose to Ok la homo? That will serve as a good recruiting tool.

"Son, I know we lost to Oklahoma but we are just a few players short of beating teams like that. Are you that difference maker that we are looking for? Come to Tennessee and help us turn this thing around"

"Okay coach, where do i sign"
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I hope this is sarcasm.
 
#71
#71
Quaint88 said:
I agree that we will see improvement on the field even if not in our record, but I want an improved record to really be an improvement and not the result of weaker scheduling. Last year against Oregon, we gave up 59 unanswered points. That is very unlikely to happen when both teams play in the same division of college football unless we just quit. I think the Oklahoma game this year will show us exactly where we are from last year because we will be playing on the road against a much better team that we aren't very familiar with again. I want to see what happens when the game starts to get out of hand, and I want to see improvement in how this team handles it. Will they give up 50 unanswered? Will they be mentally tough enough to make it a game again at some point, even if they still end up losing by a couple of scores before it's over? These are things I want to know, but we have to be in the same situation to find out. For me, it's not about being put on the map. It's about measuring success with the same ruler this year as last year.
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I will make this post shorter, I have the exact fan perspective that you do and the importance of that game to you is equivalent what Ive been thinking. With that being said my perspective was coming from more of a coaching and program standpoint. Coach knows where they are he doesnt necessarily need a measuring stick. He may never say it but he knows what lies ahead with some of the teams and programs out there this season. There are some teams that we may surprise and some teams will simply out play us this year. But our train is moving and I believe its in the right direction.
 
#72
#72
BigTCountry said:
I will make this post shorter, I have the exact fan perspective that you do and the importance of that game to you is equivalent what Ive been thinking. With that being said my perspective was coming from more of a coaching and program standpoint. Coach knows where they are he doesnt necessarily need a measuring stick. He may never say it but he knows what lies ahead with some of the teams and programs out there this season. There are some teams that we may surprise and some teams will simply out play us this year. But our train is moving and I believe its in the right direction.
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I agree with this. I'm glad you're not in the "let's lower the basketball goal to improve our vertical" crowd. I guess you're similarly relieved that I'm not in the "we are Tennessee" crowd or the "to be the best, you have to beat the best" crowd. As far as a coach knowing his team the best, that's why I'm not too worried about us missing a bowl game this year. Jones said a bowl is the expectation going forward after we beat Kentucky last year, knowing we would replace our entire O and D lines. I don't think he would say that publicly if he didn't privately believe we can win 8. He could've made it easier on himself this year if he'd said that, due to our lines, it would be even harder to make a bowl in '14. It would've seemed completely reasonable at the time, but he didn't say that.
 
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#73
#73
BigTCountry said:
So 1. What did we prove against the big O last year. Would you rather get beat 65-0 or get an average tough W. Probably doesnt help our recruiting in some areas for the nation to see were that far from competing in a top 5 matchup

2. So you dont want this team to imrove to 6-6 or 7-5 and go bowling cause they will get a crappy bowl game. Im pretty positive our players have been sitting at the house the last few years. Their not puffing their chest about that either.
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I'm saying that going bowling isn't necessarily showing improvement. If UT squeaks out 6 wins but still gets hammered by the better teams on the schedule, IMO, the team really hasn't improved.

Likewise, if UT gets 6 wins but kept the games interesting in the losses...that shows improvement. Both records are 6-6 but one is better than the other.
 
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