Tennessee preparing for the future with salaries for athletes.

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

No it won’t. Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything. My wife had a job in a lab but was an English major. No fafsa or restrictions.

And the university can provide stipends for athletes pursuing a degree in any field of study for any reason. There is no legal issue with that. There just isn’t.

If the funding was provided by the NIH, that would be different. It’s clear this will be donor funded and so they can construct whatever mechanism they want.

As long as the athlete agrees to the conditions and taxes are paid, there is zero problems with this.

Your wife CHOSE to work. I'm doubtful it was a requirement.

My point is: there's very little reason (despite it being the best move for most of them) for athletes to want to work their butts off for the coach AND go to school.

Schools that drop the academics are automatically favored and especially favored by those elite athletes who can get their degree after their NFL or NBA career.

My other issue with paying players directly is: Does this mean ALL athletes will become paid? If not, prepare to face the lawsuit from the tennis, volleyball, etc teams.

It's a terrible thing for college athletics.

 

[Thou]

Student athletes are students. Less than 5% will make money from their sport after college. College athletes gives the other 95% the opportunity to compete and many a free education.I get that they should be able to profit from NIL and the school has to do all they can to be competitive, but it’s been turned into much more than a player being able to use his image to profit. I just don’t want to loose a lot of what makes college sports so much better than the pro’s. Go Big Orange!

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

This may not make NIL go away, but NIL will go away or something else w9ll replace it in the near future. Then the "paid Athlete" will take over and who knows what will happen then.

NIL is here to stay. It is independent of whether or not athletes become employees or not.

 

[1world1love]

Your wife CHOSE to work. I'm doubtful it was a requirement.

My point is: there's very little reason (despite it being the best move for most of them) for athletes to want to work their butts off for the coach AND go to school.

Schools that drop the academics are automatically favored and especially favored by those elite athletes who can get their degree after their NFL or NBA career.

My other issue with paying players directly is: Does this mean ALL athletes will become paid? If not, prepare to face the lawsuit from the tennis, volleyball, etc teams.

It's a terrible thing for college athletics.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m all for athletes earning off their own NIL, but I’m not a fan of salaries from the schools. I think an endowment that would support modest stipends for all athletes is fine, but all schools should have the same cap to avoid inducement.

My point was that there are plenty of ways to structure it to maintain the academic side of things. You are correct that it would have to cover all student athletes for sure.

Having said all of that though, the biggest issue to me is that universities, businesses, the ncaa, coaches, etc, all benefit financially based on these athletes. And while some will argue that they get room, board, and an education, the problem is that it doesn’t balance with the “production” they contribute.

While I don’t like the idea of schools paying players, there has to be a revenue sharing model that benefits the athletes commensurate with their contributions.

 

[Exiled]

Oh really? Do other UT employees have to attend classes?

I'm willing to bet Coach Heupel doesn't, nor Donde Plowman, nor the folks who clean their offices, nor their secretaries, nor numerous employees of UT.

What makes you think the courts will let UT treat athlete employees differently than other employees of UT?

What makes you think the courts SHOULD treat athlete employees differently?

Aren’t the professors required to do classes?

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Don’t get me wrong. I’m all for athletes earning off their own NIL, but I’m not a fan of salaries from the schools. I think an endowment that would support modest stipends for all athletes is fine, but all schools should have the same cap to avoid inducement.

My point was that there are plenty of ways to structure it to maintain the academic side of things. You are correct that it would have to cover all student athletes for sure.

Having said all of that though, the biggest issue to me is that universities, businesses, the ncaa, coaches, etc, all benefit financially based on these athletes. And while some will argue that they get room, board, and an education, the problem is that it doesn’t balance with the “production” they contribute.

While I don’t like the idea of schools paying players, there has to be a revenue sharing model that benefits the athletes commensurate with their contributions.

The money schools can change ALL athletes to paid, cap it as a stipend, and just push "some" money back to the school side and the rest is on the NIL side.

Most schools don't make money, don't have big donor bases, etc and they're "priced out of the market" by having to pay athletes. What is ETSU supposed to do? Or TN Tech?

Certainly, the SEC and B1G are fine, the ACC until it implodes but, in my mind, the jury is out on the Big 12+ even being able to sustain things long-term without TX and OU.

It's a very different "college game" if only a small percentage can actually afford to pay athletes.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Aren’t the professors required to do classes?

Teaching is their actual job, so yes. It's their career. Tenure requires a portfolio of research, publications, etc to advance.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

The money schools can change ALL athletes to paid, cap it as a stipend, and just push "some" money back to the school side and the rest is on the NIL side.

Most schools don't make money, don't have big donor bases, etc and they're "priced out of the market" by having to pay athletes. What is ETSU supposed to do? Or TN Tech?

Certainly, the SEC and B1G are fine, the ACC until it implodes but, in my mind, the jury is out on the Big 12+ even being able to sustain things long-term without TX and OU.

It's a very different "college game" if only a small percentage can actually afford to pay athletes.

Why are people still conflating NIL with salaries?

 

[Exiled]

Teaching is their actual job, so yes. It's their career. Tenure requires a portfolio of research, publications, etc to advance.

They do those things as part of their job requirement. So, why can’t athletes be required to attend class as part of their job requirements? I worked for a defense contractor for 20 years and was required to have continuous education classes as part of my job. My yearly evaluation, raise and bonus was affected by it.

 

[Majors]

The next domino to fall will be academic requirements. They will no longer be "student" athletes.

Cardel Jones was right…”we didn’t come to Ohio State to play school”

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

They do those things as part of their job requirement. So, why can’t athletes be required to attend class as part of their job requirements? I worked for a defense contractor for 20 years and was required to have continuous education classes as part of my job. My yearly evaluation, raise and bonus was affected by it.

In your field, of course, your employer has an interest in keeping you current.

UT would have a GREAT interest in keeping athletes strength and conditioning at a high level, their position training current, etc but I doubt the DOJ invested in your strength and conditioning because it wasn't relevant to your work.

 

[Exiled]

In your field, of course, your employer has an interest in keeping you current.

UT would have a GREAT interest in keeping athletes strength and conditioning at a high level, their position training current, etc but I doubt the DOJ invested in your strength and conditioning because it wasn't relevant to your work.

Most of the athletes won’t be going pro so their career goals should reflect some sort of career that can be enhanced by taking classes and hopefully learning valuable lessons. The universities should be able to include classes and attendance in any sort of contractual arrangement. Yes, strength and conditioning will also be included.

Of course, universities could always use the military model where all of this is a requirement.

 

[1world1love]

The money schools can change ALL athletes to paid, cap it as a stipend, and just push "some" money back to the school side and the rest is on the NIL side.

Most schools don't make money, don't have big donor bases, etc and they're "priced out of the market" by having to pay athletes. What is ETSU supposed to do? Or TN Tech?

Certainly, the SEC and B1G are fine, the ACC until it implodes but, in my mind, the jury is out on the Big 12+ even being able to sustain things long-term without TX and OU.

It's a very different "college game" if only a small percentage can actually afford to pay athletes.

I don’t disagree. But that is not the fault of the athletes and doesn’t justify not giving them a fair piece of the pie.

A model of revenue sharing across all schools within a certain level (ie fbs, fcs, etc), and based on the number and type of varsity sports offered, makes the most sense to me out of all the options I’ve heard.

The schools would then be required to distribute a share to student athletes in the form of stipends.

The student athletes could then profit off their own NIL as the market allows.

It is the nfl model tweaked for college. It is far from perfect but seems like the most obvious path if we want to sustain any semblance of what we love and maintaining support for non-revenue sports.

No matter what we do though, there are always going to be haves and have nots. UT has more fans than ETSU and so has more revenue generally.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Most of the athletes won’t be going pro so their career goals should reflect some sort of career that can be enhanced by taking classes and hopefully learning valuable lessons. The universities should be able to include classes and attendance in any sort of contractual arrangement. Yes, strength and conditioning will also be included.

Of course, universities could always use the military model where all of this is a requirement.

You do realize this is a competitive market for athletes, right?

Many of you guys are still in the "schools are in control" mindset. That's not the case. The NCAA, which is essentially the schools, is losing their "student athlete" model and MUCH faster than I'd hoped.

The goal in college, after the schools screw up and start paying players directly, will be for players to tap into the media revenue pie like pro athletes.

As I said, that puts most schools out of business if ETSU and such schools are still in the same legal boat of compensation as UT. That's the first disaster. You have a MUCH smaller pool of schools who can compete.

The second disaster is the players aligning with the players unions in pro sports to maximize earnings and protect their interests (including the student aspect being anything other than optional.) The pro unions will bring in experienced, hardball negotiators and everything we all love about pro ball comes to college.

We're over the guardrail and down the cliff toward full employee, full professional status of the schools begin directly paying athletes to be athletes.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I don’t disagree. But that is not the fault of the athletes and doesn’t justify not giving them a fair piece of the pie.

A model of revenue sharing across all schools within a certain level (ie fbs, fcs, etc), and based on the number and type of varsity sports offered, makes the most sense to me out of all the options I’ve heard.

The schools would then be required to distribute a share to student athletes in the form of stipends.

The student athletes could then profit off their own NIL as the market allows.

It is the nfl model tweaked for college. It is far from perfect but seems like the most obvious path if we want to sustain any semblance of what we love and maintaining support for non-revenue sports.

No matter what we do though, there are always going to be haves and have nots. UT has more fans than ETSU and so has more revenue generally.

The NFL has a partial Antitrust Exemption which protects them and allows easier resolutions for free agency, transfers, etc. The NCAA is losing EVERY case on those issues because of Antitrust Law violations.

ETSU and UTC and Akron and TN Tech are screwed if they don't become someone's cupcake game for a payout. That will come to an end with the conferences realigning AND the Mouse and the Fox aren't going to want to keep having "slaughter games" that are over in the first quarter. Smaller schools don't have a chance to keep their programs alive without big payout games.

 

[Special Ed]

Well, that former player who said, "We didn't come here for school. W came to play football." I guess he was sort of a prophet if this is what schools will start doing. I think it was a B1G player, Nebraska maybe, 'bout 6–8 years back.

I believe Cardale Jones once said, "We ain't come to play school, classes are pointless."
Or something like that.

 

[Voltopia]

Student athletes are students. Less than 5% will make money from their sport after college.

Well, yeah, sure, but nobody cares about what happens to them.

/s ... I think ... probably. Sort of.

 

[Caspian]

I like the idea that college athletes can now play their sport (e.g., football) without the all or nothing gamble of making $ in the NFL. For most, the NFL $ never materializes. Now they can get paid in college which will then create a greater motivation to work on their skills, NFL or no NFL. It smooths out the compensation curve.

 

[BruisedOrange]

We need to be careful following the "logic" of why academics shouldn't matter, because what then of the athlete who WANTS an education?

In such a situation, the Josh Dobbs of the world become "athletic losers" because they want to attend classes and progress toward a degree.

And in the case of the career-ending injured... do they then get a 4 year education, or do they get a disability check and a "thanks, bro!"

 

[Hulavol]

What you guys are missing - and I may be missing something here - but the beauty of this is it solves the biggest problem- if they are an employee - they can sign a contract - and under contract cannot just transfer to cockthrust state with impunity…… stop that crap and CFB can continue relatively normally- and then 34 of these dudes can’t parade into Nick Saban’s office and ask for a raise or otherwise they are going to Texas (which is precisely what happened).

Love that UT is on the leading edge of all of this.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

Have they ever TRULY been anyway? The majority of these kids are banking on the NFL

Wait a minute.... they will have to pear down into super conferences or super divisions by sport, the most manageable modification. Not sure how many teams want to be in that game for football, a whole different dynamic for Basketball with smaller rosters making it more affordable to fund a team.

In just the FBS there are 131 schools, at 85 schollies that is a little over 11,000 players, divide by roughly 4 is close to 2,800 coming out each year of which 300 will enter the NFL.... Bad plan for 90% of them.

Super conferences probably won't work, since the number that can support a full employee model in football, can't possibly cover all those that can in basketball with the smaller roster size and different priorities, like UCONN etc. Can you mix new pro teams and amateur with NIL teams in any playoff structure? If not it takes a bite out of March Madness. So having separate divisions by sport allow teams pick different models, some don't even have football. D1P(ro) for football and D1 for everything else, just skews conference scheduling a lot. Tough solution path options out there...

Total costs for those in the employee model go up since they have to pay players enough to cover income taxes and FICA on the money before they pay tuition, room and most board, and other costs of doing business and amateur perks. Should be easy to emulate the NFL accounting practices. You can bet Uncle Sam will want his. That will of course vary by state and state of residence laws. Have to believe they will HAVE to be treated just like every other employee of the individual Schools. Something the players will have to factor in their decision paths. Making them employees sounds so simple..... NOPE....

It is a good idea to be drilling down on the WHAT IF's they become employees, ,but better hope it does not go there.

 

[butchna]

Nope. If they become paid employees of the university, why would academics even factor into it?

Because it’s COLLEGE. You have to teach or be learning on a work/study.

 

[butchna]

Your wife CHOSE to work. I'm doubtful it was a requirement.

My point is: there's very little reason (despite it being the best move for most of them) for athletes to want to work their butts off for the coach AND go to school.

Schools that drop the academics are automatically favored and especially favored by those elite athletes who can get their degree after their NFL or NBA career.

My other issue with paying players directly is: Does this mean ALL athletes will become paid? If not, prepare to face the lawsuit from the tennis, volleyball, etc teams.

It's a terrible thing for college athletics.

Students working for a research grant have access to funds. Those participating in spoken word poetry symposiums don’t. Real world analogies can be a bigger!

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

They do those things as part of their job requirement. So, why can’t athletes be required to attend class as part of their job requirements? I worked for a defense contractor for 20 years and was required to have continuous education classes as part of my job. My yearly evaluation, raise and bonus was affected by it.

Given that lots of classes are 100% virtual, lots of students don't 'attend" class.

 

[#1fulmerite]

Oh really? Do other UT employees have to attend classes?

I'm willing to bet Coach Heupel doesn't, nor Donde Plowman, nor the folks who clean their offices, nor their secretaries, nor numerous employees of UT.

What makes you think the courts will let UT treat athlete employees differently than other employees of UT?

What makes you think the courts SHOULD treat athlete employees differently?

I’m going to be funny here and say that HR will have a handbook covering these issues.

Blue/font