Tennessee preparing for the future with salaries for athletes.

[butchna]

Just my opinion but I have a feeling the schools are going to have to do both. Manage academia AND sports franchises. One clue is UT already planning a separate fund as a backup to pay players. Sounds like they are planning on being involved to me. And again, the university wouldn’t be spending all this money on lawyers if they didn’t plan on being involved. They are and will continue to be up to their neck in the business of sports. I don’t really care for it but I’m resigned to the end result.

Of course universities are in the business of academia. Duh. But college football (which drives the bus sportswise)and basketball (to a lesser extent) are already big money operations and for the top 50 or so schools the business is going to get bigger. And it’s not going to be the NCAA that manages it. IMO, the top schools will form their own governing body. And those top schools will in effect be franchises and I believe the players will be paid with a yet to be determined mechanism like employees. One thing is for certain. It ain’t going to look like it does now.

Nothing to disagree with in that. More towards my point.

 

[Delmar]

Yeah, but again, this comes back to a very good question - why should a publicly funded university be involved in operating a for-profit professional sports franchise? Because I definitely don't think a single taxpayer dollar should EVER go to funding or supporting such a thing. Not their equipment, not their stadiums, not their marketing, not their merchandise, nothing. Was the stadium built with taxpayer money? Then it's for the school, not the pro sports team that happens to play in it. If it's not a scholastic endeavor, if it has nothing to do with providing opportunities to get an education for kids who play a sport, then it has no business getting a dime from the people or their taxes.

Now, I know, here it comes, the usual litany of "they've alwaaaays been professional sports franchises." No, no they haven't. They were not always operated as such. That's reductive for the sake of convenience. Only in the past 20 years have these things mutated into these mini-pro sports teams, once the TV money really set its hooks into things, and the conferences (and schools) really sold out.

I hear you about the taxpayer dollars but it has already happened. Somebody’s taxes and university contributions are covering the attorney fees and the effort of the UT attorney general and his staff.

You are correct, they haven’t always been pro “franchises”. But as you said, the situation has mutated and it’s going to mutate even further. Hard to put the genie back on the bottle. UT is gearing up to be part of that upper echelon of schools in the sports “business” however it ends up. At some point, folks are going to have three choices.
- Live with the fact the top 50 or so schools will be NFL Lite and support it.
- Pay some passing attention to it but don’t spend money on tickets or contribute to NIL.
- Walk away from it and find other things to spend their money on.

 

[Delmar]

If you think it's expensive to attend games now, just wait until players become "employees" of the university and all that entails. Even better, you'll love it when they unionize. Yeah baby....good times ahead. The cherry on top is when games folks are really interested in are made PPV.

There will certainly be choices to make.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Yeah, but again, this comes back to a very good question - why should a publicly funded university be involved in operating a for-profit professional sports franchise? Because I definitely don't think a single taxpayer dollar should EVER go to funding or supporting such a thing. Not their equipment, not their stadiums, not their marketing, not their merchandise, nothing. Was the stadium built with taxpayer money? Then it's for the school, not the pro sports team that happens to play in it. If it's not a scholastic endeavor, if it has nothing to do with providing opportunities to get an education for kids who play a sport, then it has no business getting a dime from the people or their taxes. They want to be in the business of pro sports, then put on their big boy pants and be pro sports teams. On their own.

Now, I know, here it comes, the usual litany of "they've alwaaaays been professional sports franchises." No, no they haven't. They were not always operated as such. That's reductive for the sake of convenience. Only in the past 20 years have these things mutated into these mini-pro sports teams, once the TV money really set its hooks into things, and the conferences (and schools) really sold out.

I'm unsure how UT has justified and been paid for the concerts and whatnot that have graded Neyland and Thompson-Boling. I'm not certain students or season ticket holders have gotten "breaks" for tickets for "outside events."

It's clear, however, that events have happened in campus facilities which were only tangentially related to the university.

Basing "pro franchises" in Knoxville which use Neyland and Thompson-Boling seems a stretch.

 

[Voltopia]

I'm unsure how UT has justified and been paid for the concerts and whatnot that have graded Neyland and Thompson-Boling. I'm not certain students or season ticket holders have gotten "breaks" for tickets for "outside events."

It's clear, however, that events have happened in campus facilities which were only tangentially related to the university.

Basing "pro franchises" in Knoxville which use Neyland and Thompson-Boling seems a stretch.

Having outside events is fine, the arenas were built with that in mind. I should have specified that "pro team" was referencing the hypothetical future where the football programs in the SEC and Big10 are spun off into some sort of bizarre professional corporate entity. I'm toying with the hypothetical future where the SEC football programs evolve into a miniature NFL where there's no educational or scholastic component, and saying that, in such a scenario, there should be absolutely no public funding support for them, as they're no longer part of the public mission of the schools.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Having outside events is fine, the arenas were built with that in mind. I should have specified that "pro team" was referencing the hypothetical future where the football programs in the SEC and Big10 are spun off into some sort of bizarre professional corporate entity. I'm toying with the hypothetical future where the SEC football programs evolve into a miniature NFL where there's no educational or scholastic component, and saying that, in such a scenario, there should be absolutely no public funding support for them, as they're no longer part of the public mission of the schools.

That's been my concern. UT shouldn't own a real pro sports franchise, IMO.

Like you, I know high level college has been a faux pro sports business for years but to actually align in some way with the NFL and/or NBA and/or MLB OR emulate pro leagues isn't close to the mission of UT.

It's extremely sad but even sadder for smaller schools and less talented athletes who would play at smaller, less successful schools. I'm unsure the courts will be able to easily separate schools and sports into "pro" and "not pro" once they start ruling on employee status.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Yeah, but again, this comes back to a very good question - why should a publicly funded university be involved in operating a for-profit professional sports franchise? Because I definitely don't think a single taxpayer dollar should EVER go to funding or supporting such a thing. Not their equipment, not their stadiums, not their marketing, not their merchandise, nothing. Was the stadium built with taxpayer money? Then it's for the school, not the pro sports team that happens to play in it. If it's not a scholastic endeavor, if it has nothing to do with providing opportunities to get an education for kids who play a sport, then it has no business getting a dime from the people or their taxes. They want to be in the business of pro sports, then put on their big boy pants and be pro sports teams. On their own.

Now, I know, here it comes, the usual litany of "they've alwaaaays been professional sports franchises." No, no they haven't. They were not always operated as such. That's reductive for the sake of convenience. Only in the past 20 years have these things mutated into these mini-pro sports teams, once the TV money really set its hooks into things, and the conferences (and schools) really sold out.

Easy answer - because football is immensely popular, and because it makes tons of money for the University. Sharing some of that money with the athletes isn't going to change the ticket cost that much, since the majority of the profits comes from the SEC's TV contract.

The sky is not falling.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Having outside events is fine, the arenas were built with that in mind. I should have specified that "pro team" was referencing the hypothetical future where the football programs in the SEC and Big10 are spun off into some sort of bizarre professional corporate entity. I'm toying with the hypothetical future where the SEC football programs evolve into a miniature NFL where there's no educational or scholastic component, and saying that, in such a scenario, there should be absolutely no public funding support for them, as they're no longer part of the public mission of the schools.

Then there should be no public funding for any other University employee, using your rationale.

 

[Voltopia]

Then there should be no public funding for any other University employee, using your rationale.

Nonsense. That's a complete misinterpretation of my statement. Employees that work in service of the school's mission educating students should absolutely get paid.

 

[Voltopia]

Easy answer - because football is immensely popular, and because it makes tons of money for the University. Sharing some of that money with the athletes isn't going to change the ticket cost that much, since the majority of the profits comes from the SEC's TV contract.

The sky is not falling.

That completely ignores my question. I realize "because it's popular" is convenient, but it does not answer or even bother with my question. "Sharing money with athletes" also has nothing to do with what I said.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Nonsense. That's a complete misinterpretation of my statement. Employees that work in service of the school's mission educating students should absolutely get paid.

ALL employees of the University should get paid, especially the ones whose labor brings in millions of dollars every year.

Part of the schools' mission is financial stability. That means revenue.

You are touting a double standard.

 

[Voltopia]

ALL employees of the University should get paid, especially the ones whose labor brings in millions of dollars every year.

Part of the schools' mission is financial stability. That means revenue.

You are touting a double standard.

lol, is the implication here that Tennessee would not be financially stable without a football team? That's, uh, that's a interesting take.

You keep trying to squeeze athlete pay into what I'm saying. I don't know why. If they want to run a commercial sports team, and they can pay the players from the "SEC Network TV money" as you call it, then they are free to do so.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Nonsense. That's a complete misinterpretation of my statement. Employees that work in service of the school's mission educating students should absolutely get paid.

What you said is blatant cherry picking. It ignores a huge slice of the big picture.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

lol, is the implication here that Tennessee would not be financially stable without a football team? That's, uh, that's a interesting take.

That is a blatant strawman on your part.
If you can't make your point without trying to put words in my mouth, then your point can't stand in its own merits.

 

[Probably_in_Class]

If you think it's expensive to attend games now, just wait until players become "employees" of the university and all that entails. Even better, you'll love it when they unionize. Yeah baby....good times ahead. The cherry on top is when games folks are really interested in are made PPV.

I'm a big fan of price transparency, so yes, I would like that. If it costs $2,000 a game to attend, I won't go. If enough people deem the price too high, then they also won't go. That's how the market should work. Not some shell game of donations to multiple different places with levels of donor tiers and artificially low face values for tickets. As for the players, they've deserved a union for decades. They've taken all the physical risk for very little of the financial gain.

 

[Delmar]

I'm a big fan of price transparency, so yes, I would like that. If it costs $2,000 a game to attend, I won't go. If enough people deem the price too high, then they also won't go. That's how the market should work. Not some shell game of donations to multiple different places with levels of donor tiers and artificially low face values for tickets. As for the players, they've deserved a union for decades. They've taken all the physical risk for very little of the financial gain.

It almost costs that now with regular hotel rooms on game weekends at $400 a night. Add meals, tickets and gas and unless you eat McDonald’s for every meal, it’s probably $1500 for the weekend if you stay at the Hampton Inn. Forget staying downtown. That’s $2000 for 2 nights for the hotel.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

That's been my concern. UT shouldn't own a real pro sports franchise, IMO.

Like you, I know high level college has been a faux pro sports business for years but to actually align in some way with the NFL and/or NBA and/or MLB OR emulate pro leagues isn't close to the mission of UT.

It's extremely sad but even sadder for smaller schools and less talented athletes who would play at smaller, less successful schools. I'm unsure the courts will be able to easily separate schools and sports into "pro" and "not pro" once they start ruling on employee status.

If they don't act as a "pro sports franchise" they are likely to not be fielding sports teams in the future. This will be the final result of the decision made by Supreme Court. Don't like not , but have to be prepare for the future if you want to play.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

If they don't act as a "pro sports franchise" they are likely to not be fielding sports teams in the future. This will be the final result of the decision made by Supreme Court. Don't like not , but have to be prepare for the future if you want to play.

I'm just not onboard with the school actually and openly being in the pro sports business, paying players a salary, collective bargaining, salary caps, free agency rules, likely a high school draft eventually for parity, etc.

How can they separate out the non revenue sports? Do they need to pay every school athlete if they pay one? Title IX issues? Lots of questions and changes there.

Mostly, however, smaller schools can't fund any of this. Lots of athletes suffer and small school fans suffer and students don't get the school athletics experience.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

If they don't act as a "pro sports franchise" they are likely to not be fielding sports teams in the future. This will be the final result of the decision made by Supreme Court. Don't like not , but have to be prepare for the future if you want to play.

Exactly. The future of college sports is going to be market driven.

Market changes always create winners and losers.

Big school football and basketball are probably going to be winners. Smaller schools and most of the Olympic sports are likely to be losers.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

If they don't act as a "pro sports franchise" they are likely to not be fielding sports teams in the future. This will be the final result of the decision made by Supreme Court. Don't like not , but have to be prepare for the future if you want to play.

Unless the outcome is a minor league to provide an avenue just like MLB and NBA have.

A quick google search says 259 get drafted each year, and 30% of those (78) ever make an NFL ROSTER and therefore worthy of all the noise.

Could be a new NCAA division with direct pay and let the rest run with schollies and NIL. MAYBE allow NFL teams align with A or multiple schools. Law says they have to have a path but not at every university. Create enough teams to cover those. Prior to signing day they can enter a HYBRID draft. If they fail sign with a school. Take the big money guys out and NIL becomes manageable. Don’t see issues with water polo.

 

[VolArmy74]

Yeah, but again, this comes back to a very good question - why should a publicly funded university be involved in operating a for-profit professional sports franchise? Because I definitely don't think a single taxpayer dollar should EVER go to funding or supporting such a thing. Not their equipment, not their stadiums, not their marketing, not their merchandise, nothing. Was the stadium built with taxpayer money? Then it's for the school, not the pro sports team that happens to play in it. If it's not a scholastic endeavor, if it has nothing to do with providing opportunities to get an education for kids who play a sport, then it has no business getting a dime from the people or their taxes. They want to be in the business of pro sports, then put on their big boy pants and be pro sports teams. On their own.

Now, I know, here it comes, the usual litany of "they've alwaaaays been professional sports franchises." No, no they haven't. They were not always operated as such. That's reductive for the sake of convenience. Only in the past 20 years have these things mutated into these mini-pro sports teams, once the TV money really set its hooks into things, and the conferences (and schools) really sold out.

You surely know that athletics takes in no tax dollars. It pays for itself and provides millions of dollars to the academic side each year. The positive impact for the University, city of Knoxville and state of Tennessee is massive. UT football is vital to the budget of Knox County/Knoxville city, just off the added sales tax dollars generated. The state reaps most of that windfall.

 

[Hunerwadel]

FWIW:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/05/business/dartmouth-basketball-team-union-vote/index.html

 

[Old Man Orange]

So you want the schools to individually lose the same kind of lawsuits that the NCAA is losing? That's beyond silly.