Tennessee Lady Vols Updated Roster.

#26
#26
armchair said:
I'm optimistic about Cooper, as anyone would be--but I also remember the first time I saw A. Massengale play for UT as a freshman: I thought she was already the best pure PG we'd had in at least a decade and would be a great player. Wrong. She didn't play very good defense, wasn't physical and never really improved much as a distributor or scorer, though she did develop a decent three-point shot. Mass ended up a disappointment for me, pretty much in the same way as Simmons. Neither one of them was better as a senior than they were as freshmen, really--maybe a touch better. My point is, it's going to be wait and see for me with all newcomers.
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Not trying to be mean, but Cooper seems way better than Massengale arriving as a freshman than when Massengale arrived as a freshman. Cooper can get to the rim at ease and finish while to me Massengale got to the rim just to draw contact and go to the Free Throw line. I think Cooper is not afraid of the big moments and when the game is on the line. Mark my words, Cooper will be the next Odyssey Sims. She may struggle a little as a freshman, but her 4 years at Tennessee will be fun to watch.
 
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#27
#27
VOL720 said:
Not trying to be mean, but Cooper seems way better than Massengale arriving as a freshman than when Massengale arrived as a freshman. Cooper can get to the rim at ease and finish while to me Massengale got to the rim just to draw contact and go to the Free Throw line. I think Cooper is not afraid of the big moments and when the game is on the line. Mark my words, Cooper will be the next Odyssey Sims. She may struggle a little as a freshman, but her 4 years at Tennessee will be fun to watch.
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I thank you nailed this.:rock:
 
#28
#28
One difference in Cooper and Massengale is the physical strength difference. Cooper is a dynamo of strength and power so when she goes to the basket she has the strength to finish shots with contact. Massengale never came close to gaining the physical strength that Cooper already possesses that is why I think she is way ahead as a freshman.
 
#29
#29
Massengale's passing and shooting skills could never be put on full display at UT because of the junky offensive 'system' we run. She most likely would've been an AA in a system like UConn's or Louisville's that values passing and player cuts/movement.

I'm hoping the same doesn't happen to Cooper, TBH.
 
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#31
#31
volcrazy89 said:
Starting Reynolds over Massengale all of last season says you're wrong.
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Holly wanted scoring off the bench in that particular situation. She liked Massengale's experience enough to play her more minutes per game than any other LV last year.
 
#32
#32
Starting Reynolds and Carter -- two offensively inept guards -- together got us off to bad starts several times. Reynolds got yanked early in favor of Massengale several times. But did Holly get it through her thick skull to start Ariel? No. Not until she had to when Izzy went down. There was no need to get scoring "off the bench" when we needed it on the floor to start.

Holly did not handle Ariel the right way and she didn't handle Meighan Simmons the right way, either. When's the last time UT actually developed a guard in their time here? Hell that even goes back to the days when Pat was coach. Simmons and Massengale would've been AAs had they gone to programs that knew how to utilize their talents.
 
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#33
#33
volcrazy89 said:
Starting Reynolds and Carter -- two offensively inept guards -- together got us off to bad starts several times. Reynolds got yanked early in favor of Massengale several times. But did Holly get it through her thick skull to start Ariel? No. Not until she had to when Izzy went down. There was no need to get scoring "off the bench" when we needed it on the floor to start.

Holly did not handle Ariel the right way and she didn't handle Meighan Simmons the right way, either. When's the last time UT actually developed a guard in their time here? Hell that even goes back to the days when Pat was coach. Simmons and Massengale would've been AAs had they gone to programs that knew how to utilize their talents.[/QUOTE


I agree. If you had of posted this on The Summit, boy oh boy they would of tried to crucify you! You stated valid points. That's why I'm hoping Cooper gets the start from the get go at the point guard spot. Reynolds is to inconsistent on the offensive side of the ball. That's why I'm excited about Cooper because she can get to the rim and finish.
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#34
#34
ivyleague said:
Every time I read Armchair's posts, this comes to mind:

You're enjoying your day
Everything's going your way
Then along comes Debbie Downer.


Always there to tell you 'bout a new disease
A car accident or killer bees
You'll beg her to spare you, "Debbie, Please!"
But you can't stop Debbie Downer!
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actually he brings up a lot of valid points,I don't agree with what some of what he says,but there is usually good information in his post
 
#35
#35
armchair said:
I'm optimistic about Cooper, as anyone would be--but I also remember the first time I saw A. Massengale play for UT as a freshman: I thought she was already the best pure PG we'd had in at least a decade and would be a great player. Wrong. She didn't play very good defense, wasn't physical and never really improved much as a distributor or scorer, though she did develop a decent three-point shot. Mass ended up a disappointment for me, pretty much in the same way as Simmons. Neither one of them was better as a senior than they were as freshmen, really--maybe a touch better. My point is, it's going to be wait and see for me with all newcomers.
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I never thought that about Massengale. When I first saw her play I thought there is no way she is the top point guard or top 5 player. I thought she was a top 50 type maybe. Still a good player but overrated. Don't have the same thoughts about Cooper. If anything I think she is probably underrated. I didn't really see a lot of difference between her and Asia Durr and if anything liked her better than Durr.
 
#36
#36
VOL720 said:
volcrazy89 said:
Starting Reynolds and Carter -- two offensively inept guards -- together got us off to bad starts several times. Reynolds got yanked early in favor of Massengale several times. But did Holly get it through her thick skull to start Ariel? No. Not until she had to when Izzy went down. There was no need to get scoring "off the bench" when we needed it on the floor to start.

Holly did not handle Ariel the right way and she didn't handle Meighan Simmons the right way, either. When's the last time UT actually developed a guard in their time here? Hell that even goes back to the days when Pat was coach. Simmons and Massengale would've been AAs had they gone to programs that knew how to utilize their talents.[/QUOTE


I agree. If you had of posted this on The Summit, boy oh boy they would of tried to crucify you! You stated valid points. That's why I'm hoping Cooper gets the start from the get go at the point guard spot. Reynolds is to inconsistent on the offensive side of the ball. That's why I'm excited about Cooper because she can get to the rim and finish.
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I thought she handled Simmons pretty well her senior year-at least as best she could. Simmons played more within herself and the offense was running though Reynolds and Carter and flowing better.
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#37
#37
Sandvol said:
I never thought that about Massengale. When I first saw her play I thought there is no way she is the top point guard or top 5 player. I thought she was a top 50 type maybe. Still a good player but overrated. Don't have the same thoughts about Cooper. If anything I think she is probably underrated. I didn't really see a lot of difference between her and Asia Durr and if anything liked her better than Durr.
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I agree with you....as much as I loved Ariel...her and Burdick were overrated in a very weak 2011 class. Cooper will be way better than Ariel and its quite evident even though she hasn't played a lick of college basketball.
 
#40
#40
governmentmule said:
I respectfully disagree.with your disagree


but that is what makes this forum so much fun :)
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Whatever valid points he may have (and I use the term "may" loosely) are drowned by his incessant negativity and what seems like a perverse and illogical desire to paint Holly and her staff as bumbling fools who know nothing about the game they have been hired to coach . . . something that is absolutely, positively unwarranted. To be honest, it comes across as if he has some personal vendetta against Holly, especially. I have no doubt Holly knows more about basketball and how to effectively coach it than he has ever known or ever will know. I find his attitude incredibly . . . douchebag-ish. I don't like the tone of his comments, and truth be told, if I knew him personally, I wouldn't like him, either.
 
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#41
#41
None of UT's guards last year was an exceptional all-around guard. They were all decent, each had qualities--but they each had weaknesses. None of them was a dependable scorer, and none of them was exceptional at running the team. It was a fairly solid but not exceptional group.

For a good part of the year, Massengale played well coming off the bench; she seemed energized and was productive. Was she a better or worse PG than Reynolds? Hard to say--but I didn't have a problem with the way Warlick handled Massengale. We didn't get a lot of scoring out of Carter and Reynolds to start games, sometimes, but I rather doubt that Massengale would have made much difference--and she did play a lot, just didn't start.

As for me being a pessimist: Forget winning a national title, the Vols haven't even been to a Final Four in 8 years! That is pretty depressing given that we never have to win more than two tough games in the Sweet 16 to get there. We had two nice chances to go--only needing to beat one good team in the elite eight (louisville and then maryland last year--neither of which was even close to great) and we choked in both games. We gave the job of following Pat Summitt to a career assistant with no head-coaching experience. One big reason for the program's slippage is that UT's team offense steadily deteriorated for YEARs, dating way back to before Summitt retired--a coaching issue. And now comes Warlick and she has done little to address the issue, instead giving us the same way outdated "defense and rebounding" mantra. We have been a bit unlucky with injuries, but other teams have them too and I'm not going to be a pollyanna just to please other fans. :)
 
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#43
#43
armchair said:
None of UT's guards last year was an exceptional all-around guard. They were all decent, each had qualities--but they each had weaknesses. None of them was a dependable scorer, and none of them was exceptional at running the team. It was a fairly solid but not exceptional group.

For a good part of the year, Massengale played well coming off the bench; she seemed energized and was productive. Was she a better or worse PG than Reynolds? Hard to say--but I didn't have a problem with the way Warlick handled Massengale. We didn't get a lot of scoring out of Carter and Reynolds to start games, sometimes, but I rather doubt that Massengale would have made much difference--and she did play a lot, just didn't start.

As for me being a pessimist: Forget winning a national title, the Vols haven't even been to a Final Four in 8 years! That is pretty depressing given that we never have to win more than two tough games in the Sweet 16 to get there. We had two nice chances to go--only needing to beat one good team in the elite eight (louisville and then maryland last year--neither of which was even close to great) and we choked in both games. We gave the job of following Pat Summitt to a career assistant with no head-coaching experience. One big reason for the program's slippage is that UT's team offense steadily deteriorated for YEARs, dating way back to before Summitt retired--a coaching issue. And now comes Warlick and she has done little to address the issue, instead giving us the same way outdated "defense and rebounding" mantra. We have been a bit unlucky with injuries, but other teams have them too and I'm not going to be a pollyanna just to please other fans. :)
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I'll tell you the same thing I bet the head coach of your high school's basketball team also told you once upon a time many years ago: "Maybe it's time to find a new hobby, sport."
 
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#46
#46
I'm trying to get rid of my 4th major headache this month already, feels like somebuddy is trying to poke a dull knife into the back of my eye. And I'm trying to enjoy the CWS but the SEC is letting me down so far...
 
#47
#47
gule said:
I'm trying to get rid of my 4th major headache this month already, feels like somebuddy is trying to poke a dull knife into the back of my eye. And I'm trying to enjoy the CWS but the SEC is letting me down so far...
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excedrin is your friend :good!:
 
#48
#48
IMO I think armchair provides valuable insight in a lot of his/her posts. Do I agree with everything that he/she posts? No, but most of the analysis in armchair's post are no more critical than you would find on sports talk radio or from ESPN analysts like Lobo, Peck, or Lawson. It's clear that this isn't someone who signed up here masquerading as a fake lady vol fan just to antagonize the fan base, and we can probably name a few who are doing that. To be clear, this isn't the Summit and if you want constant sunshine pumping about the Lady Vols, then that forum might be for you. They run a tight ship over there, so posting ANYTHING critical is highly frowned upon. To each their own, but I prefer to be able to read critical posts, as well as positive posts. So, if you are visibly upset and think you might flip out or have a tantrum over something negative Armchair posts, or any other well meaning lady vol fan posts, then the Summit is def calling your name. There's also that handy little ignore button :thumbsup: With all that said, I fully support Holly and her staff and I think great things are coming back for Lady Vol basketball.

Back to the topic at hand..I'm excited about our roster and I think Holly has wonderful options to choose from. I don't really recall a year where we had so many options, and not only options, but options that won't hurt us if/when we sub players in and out. I agree with the other poster/s who said that Cooper reminds them of Simms. What Massengale lacked in height and strength, Cooper makes up for then some. Not to mention the fact that she is an outstanding defensive player, which was another Massengale weakness. With all the talent that is on this team and all the supporting talent, how can we not be in the picture for our 9th NC. As far as I'm concerned, this is our best shot at it since 08. Can't wait for the season to start up!!
 
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#49
#49
boxerpupsrcool said:
IMO I think armchair provides valuable insight in a lot of his/her posts. Do I agree with everything that he/she posts? No, but most of the analysis in armchair's post are no more critical than you would find on sports talk radio or from ESPN analysts like Lobo, Peck, or Lawson. It's clear that this isn't someone who signed up here masquerading as a fake lady vol fan just to antagonize the fan base, and we can probably name a few who are doing that. To be clear, this isn't the Summit and if you want constant sunshine pumping about the Lady Vols, then that forum might be for you. They run a tight ship over there, so posting ANYTHING critical is highly frowned upon. To each their own, but I prefer to be able to read critical posts, as well as positive posts. So, if you are visibly upset and think you might flip out or have a tantrum over something negative Armchair posts, or any other well meaning lady vol fan posts, then the Summit is def calling your name. With all that said, I fully support Holly and her staff and I think great things are coming back for Lady Vol basketball.
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I will not pay to post on a message board. Hence, the Summitt is decidedly not for me. And the day Armchair causes me to flip out or have a tantrum is the day hell freezes over. I do not think Armchair is a fake Lady Vol fan nor do I think he is a troll. I do not expect constant sunshine and no criticism. However, I DO think Armchair is overly negative and critical to the point of absurdity when it comes to the coaching staff, Holly in particular. I cannot count the times he has in some form or fashion, sometimes overtly and sometimes subversively, stated or suggested that Holly is clueless, doesn't know what she's doing, or is "thick-headed" or stupid when it comes to coaching basketball. That is so unwarranted and so beyond the pale that I have come to disregard everything he says. In fact, I'm not sure I have ever seen a noncritical post from him. Bottom line, it's okay for a fan to be critical as long as that fan remembers that he or she is not in charge, doesn't know everything the coaches know, and is not, in fact, a better coach than the actual coach. It is not okay for a fan to be a perpetual ******* day in and day out, especially when it comes to discussions of his or her own team, its players, and its coaches. It's not okay to always be a Debbie Downer, especially when it comes to something that is supposed to be fun and entertaining.

boxerpupsrcool said:
Back to the topic at hand..I'm excited about our roster and I think Holly has wonderful options to choose from. I don't really recall a year where we had so many options, and not only options, but options that won't hurt us if/when we sub players in and out. I agree with the other poster/s who said that Cooper reminds them of Simms. What Massengale lacked in height and strength, Cooper makes up for then some. Not to mention the fact that she is an outstanding defensive player, which was another Massengale weakness. With all the talent that is on this team and all the supporting talent, how can we not be in the picture for our 9th NC. As far as I'm concerned, this is our best shot at it since 08. Can't wait for the season to start up!!
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I'm excited for the season to begin, as well.
 
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#50
#50
VOL720 said:
I agree. If you had of posted this on The Summit, boy oh boy they would of tried to crucify you!
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I actually have posted the same thing on TS before but not the same wording. And obviously I've been jumped on before (I'm sure you've seen it), but I'm a big boy and it doesn't really matter to me. Not everyone has to agree with me, nor do I expect everyone to agree with me. Ironically I've been posting there longer than the majority of people who get butthurt over anything I say. I only point that out because I remember a time when the board was completely different.

My favorite is how every player that commits/signs to UT is made out to be like they are some kind of elite player that has no weaknesses. But when they get to UT ... it's "high school accolades don't mean anything". And don't get me started on how it's a subscription board with zero subscription content. No chats, no inside information, no nothing.

boxerpupsrcool said:
To be clear, this isn't the Summit and if you want constant sunshine pumping about the Lady Vols, then that forum might be for you. They run a tight ship over there, so posting ANYTHING critical is highly frowned upon. To each their own, but I prefer to be able to read critical posts, as well as positive posts.
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I remember the good ol' days when discussion was actually encouraged on TS and you weren't jumped on for anything that wasn't pumping sunshine up the players' and coaches' rear ends 24/7. They deny that it happens, which makes it even more hilarious. What you said is absolutely true. If you want to post on a board where opinions that aren't conforming to the masses are jumped on and attacked like a bunch of piranahs to a dead carcass, then yes, head over there.

As for ivyleague, I'm surprised that they aren't on TS because they would fit in extremely well. Also surprised that someone who is so full of him/herself and their 'superior' intelligence would use such a mundane and childish term such as "Debbie Downer". The first thing that comes to my mind when I see/hear terms like "Debbie Downer" or "NegaVol" (another dumb cliche) is "suck it up, buttercup". It's easy to call names when you can't refute what someone is actually saying with facts and an opposing viewpoint. I don't agree with everything armchair says, but he is far from 'negative'. If anyone feels that, you obviously haven't seen real negativity in college sports. He reminds me of myself in that he always says what he feels and explains why and is usually intelligent in his posts. Likewise, I don't agree with most of what ivyleague says -- mostly because it's a bunch of rambling and pumping sunshine up his/her own rear end, and when it isn't, it's getting into fights with other people ... usually a combination of the two. (I'm snarky as hell ... but even I think it's over the top.) But I agree with what they've said about the whole Glory/Griner situation. I guess that proves that everyone is agreeable at some point.
 
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