Ten Thoughts (Another Coaching Search Edition

#27
#27
You can scratch Miller off the list. There is zero chance that Dave Hart will spend that kind of money on a bb coach. That's as much as Butch makes. My guess is he spends less than $2M per year.
 
#28
#28
zjcvols said:
Hey look, it's an offseason with a coaching search! Since Lane Kiffin's departure in January 2010, this will be the seventh coaching search for Tennessee in the four major college sports (football, both basketball, and baseball). I don't have numbers, but this has to be an unprecedented lack of stability at a university. It's crazy. Let's get to it.

1. Donnie Tyndall screwed Donnie Tyndall.

To paraphrase Vince McMahon, I have no sympathy for Donnie Tyndall. The NCAA is a corrupt business, but don't blame them. Dave Hart did a bad job vetting Tyndall, but don't blame him for not standing by the coach. Donnie Tyndall was a coach who had already put a program on probation. He knew the risks of cheating and trying to cover it up. This is on him. He's not at Tennessee anymore because it's his own damn fault. I'm tired of people using the NCAA as a corrupt business for trying to take responsibility off coaches. You get caught cheating, then try to cover it up, you deserved to be fired because that is what happens anywhere else. It sucks for Tennessee, but there's only one man responsible and that is Donnie Tyndall himself.

2. This isn't a dumpster fire

Right now, everyone believes this is a really bad situation. I will say that it's not ideal. But this is not a horrible place to coach. Honestly, I think this program is in a better situation than it was in 2010 after Pearl's firing and after last year when Martin left. In 2010, Tennessee was dealing with the NCAA. When Martin left, Tennessee was dealing with a bad national perception. This year, neither are factors. The roster is bad, but right now Tennessee still is a brand name in basketball, with great facilities and a fanbase that supports basketball. It's a good job and should be treated as such. You can win at Tennessee and have this program as a top 25 program by 2017-2018 with really good recruiting. Having said that...

3. This is the most important basketball hire in UT's history.

Tennessee still has momentum nationally from Bruce Pearl's run and the Sweet Sixteen appearance under Cuonzo Martin. Yet, a bad hire could really damage the program. The support from the AD is there, but I can tell the fan base that Pearl built up is starting to get restless. Nationally, UT is trending towards the negative with just one NCAA Tournament appearance in four years. Attendance had steadily gone done and took a drop this year. The roster is not in a good place and recruiting has taken a hit.

I feel like apathy is starting to slowly come in to the program. I believe people are just tired with all the drama. This hire is critical to maintaining the resurgence of Tennessee basketball that UT has seen in the last ten years. It can be hard to get that back. Not only must the new coach win, he needs to be a guy the fanbase can rally around. Usually I don't care for the rah-rah type coaches, but this might be the perfect time to get somebody like personality wise. Tennessee is wounded. It's either going to heal up or take a crashing burn. Dave Hart has to get this hire right or else it could be a death knoll for Tennessee in basketball for the next ten years.

4. Bruce Pearl is not coming here.

Will you people just stop it?

5. Tennessee can upgrade from Donnie Tyndall.

We can argue the merits of Tyndall as a coach. He could be really good or he could be average. I think everyone here will admit he wasn't exactly a top 20 coach nationally in terms of x's and o's, which means Tennessee can upgrade. There are a lot of good coaches out there in the mid-major market (more than usual it seems) and Tennessee has a plethora of people to choose from.

If I'm Dave Hart, I'm looking for something a little more up-tempo than Cuonzo Martin or Donnie Tyndall just because I think the fan base does better with that style, a more exciting brand of basketball. I'm looking for someone with personality that can hit the recruiting trail hard, and I'm looking for a younger coach (someone under 50). It's time Tennessee got another Ray Mears, a guy that will be here for 10-15 years. If you find a guy (take Brad Underwood for example) that is young and believe is going to be a top 10 coach, then give him the money upfront. Make the commitment.

6. The roster might hurt the coaching search a little.

I don't want to sound mean but this roster is worse than the 2010 roster that Martin took over and the one Tyndall took over in 2014. There is no post play, no point guard, and no consistent wing scorer. There are not any impressive freshmen or seniors. There is only one player with a serious high school pedigree on the team. It's a bad situation roster wise. In basketball though, this isn't as big a deal. You can improve a basketball roster pretty quickly. But this could take a few years before Tennessee is consistently in the tournament every year. It shouldn't take five years but it could be until year three for the new coach until the NCAA tournament is a reasonable expectation.

7. What Dave Hart is most likely looking for.

Even though Dave Hart didn't hire Dave Serrano, we are including him anyway into the conversation since Mike Hamilton had nothing to do with that hire. Dave Hart has made four hires in the four major college sports at Tennessee. Holly Warlick was an anomaly because of the Pat Summitt situation. But take Donnie Tyndall, Butch Jones, and Dave Serrano and they all have similar traits. They all took over successful programs at smaller schools and continued that success. That could be interesting to look at because of a guy like Steve Prohm or Chris Holtmann. All were under the age of 50. All three are known for outgoing personalities and energy. The three hires weren't exactly known for their coaching acumen alone either. They could be construed as good hires for other reasons. All three also had been head coaches for while.

It seems like Dave Hart likes younger guys that have legitimate head coaching experience and success at smaller programs but not at small mid-major schools. He doesn't seem to favor program builders nor does he want coaches that are older so that takes out someone like Rick Byrd or Rick Barnes.

8. If I was the AD, my top three would be...

First off, let's exclude who is coming here. Bruce Pearl and Brad Stevens (do you people watch the NBA?) are not coming here. Shake Smart is also off the list, along with Tom Crean because of his incredibly ridiculous buyout. I wouldn't scratch off Gregg Marshall. I would definitely give him a call and see if I could pull that off, but I don't think that is realistic. One quick thing. I know a bunch of coaches have signed extensions, but I'm not going to take them off the list just yet.

My top three, starting with number three would be Steve Prohm. There were some good coaches before him and Murray State is a very good basketball program, so he's not a program builder. But he is a very good offensive coach that has dominated the OVC at Murray State. People are concerned about the one NCAA Tournament but he took over a very experienced team his first year and had to rebuild, and did with 29 wins. They also got screwed out of the tournament. He likes to play small ball so he would have to recruit legitimate size and he never has had good defense, but I think Prohm could win here.

Second would be Brad Underwood and the guy I really want at Tennessee. Danny Kaspar really got the Lumberjack program going but Underwood has elevated it. Two straight NCAA Tournament, total conference domination, and a very energetic coach with a known name in the coaching circles. Great offense with a lot of motion that shares the ball that really guard the perimeter and can push the tempo some. Can he recruit? Is Tennessee too big a job? Those are legitimate questions but I love the advanced metrics on him and I really like his personality here.

If Tennessee is serious about winning, they would offer Archie Miller a 6 year, $20M contract right now and call it a day. Miller has superstar written all over him and not just because of a famous coaching brother either. He took over a decent mid-major program and boosted it up another level in a very tough A-10 conference. He's very young, he's a very good recruiter, and has a brand name that UT can sell. They don't have a fast pace tempo which might turn some fans off, but they play winning basketball with good defense, efficient offense, and excellent rebounding. Honestly, this should have been Dave Hart's first call no questions ask. Miller likes Dayton and he might be waiting for a bigger job. But I think if you showed him a commitment he would come here.

9. That's all great, but Dave Hart will hire...

My first initial guess was Steve Prohm. You got the Bama connection with Hart. He fits everything Hart looks for in hiring a coach. He wouldn't be too expensive. However, if Alabama strikes out on Marshall, I see Prohm going there or staying at Murray State.

That leaves Chris Holtmann, which isn't my first choice but I think would be a good hire. He took over a horrible Gardner-Webb program that showed no commitment to winning and did a good job. He took a near impossible situation this year and had an incredible amount of success with Butler this year. He has some experience, he's young, and he would be a solid name. I'm not sure about recruiting and I do worry a little about the style of play, but overall I would be happy with this hire. It's not a guaranteed better hire than Tyndall and I worry about recruiting, but it can definitely work at Tennessee.

10. This might be a blessing in disguise for Tennessee.

Obviously I would have preferred having Donnie Tyndall not to be a dumbass and stay at Tennessee but it's time to turn a new page. I think Tyndall was a decent coach. But the investigation was killing recruiting and I don't believe that he was an excellent enough game coach to overcome that at Tennessee. If Tennessee gets the right guy, then this isn't an issue and we all just move on. However this could be a bad turning point. But I don't think it is. I truly believe that Tennessee can really get a good coach that can have Tennessee back near the top of the SEC and in the national spotlight. Will it happen? Maybe not. However, I like to think that this situation could be a good thing for Tennessee and that it will work out.
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My top 5 realistic candidates would be...

1. Archie Miller, Dayton
2. Chris Mack, Xavier
3. Ben Jacobsen, Northern Iowa
4. Brad Underwood, Stephen F Austin
5. Chris Holtmann, Butler
 
#29
#29
cncchris33 said:
My top 5 realistic candidates would be...

1. Archie Miller, Dayton
2. Chris Mack, Xavier
3. Ben Jacobsen, Northern Iowa
4. Brad Underwood, Stephen F Austin
5. Chris Holtmann, Butler
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I don't think Jacobsen or Mack would leave their current jobs right now. I would kill for either one.
 
#30
#30
hire the guy from wichita state before alabama does---pay him whatever he wants---it may take 4-5 million / year, but he's worth it!
 
#31
#31
zjcvols said:
I don't think Jacobsen or Mack would leave their current jobs right now. I would kill for either one.
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They might not, but they aren't unrealistic in the same vein that Sean Miller, Tom Izzo, and Coach K are unrealistic. With the state of our program from a talent perspective and the national perception of the lack of stability from the top down, I could argue none of the guys I listed should/would come here.

Jacobson played at North Dakota, so coaching at his alma mater is probably beneath his ability. He has no real ties to the state of Iowa except his coaching career. He has likely reached his ceiling at Northern Iowa, where he's been fon 9 years with some really good seasons mixed with some pretty average seasons. He's never going to make that program more than it is, which is no slam on him. He really needs to move on and strike while the iron is hot coming off of a 31-4 season. It's possible he's waiting on another Big 10/Big 12 job.

Mack is one that could really see Xavier as a better job currently than Tennessee, and he could make a decent argument. For him, it would have to be a desire for a change and more money. He is coaching at his alma mater, which is appealing, but he is making south of $900k. Is $1.8 mil in a state with no income tax more appealing? Is coaching in a Power 5 conference more appealing? I'd make him say "no".
 
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#32
#32
vtvol98 said:
I think LeVelle Moton of NC Central would be an interesting hire. He guided the NCCU Eagles to a NCAA bid in 2013-14 and was shorted on a NCAA bid this past season despite a 25-8 record this past season. He's relatively young at 41 years of age. He has a career .669 winning percentage during his 5 seasons as the HC of NCCU.

LeVelle Moton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Won't happen.

Those suggesting we spend 3+ million on a basketball coach are crazy. You really think we're gonna pay a men's basketball coach more than Butch? No way.
 
#34
#34
VolsRule said:
hire the guy from wichita state before alabama does---pay him whatever he wants---it may take 4-5 million / year, but he's worth it!
Click to expand...

Tn isn't going to pay a basketball coach more than the football coach. Not being a jerk, but it's pretty cut and dry that won't happen.
 
#35
#35
zjcvols said:
First off, let's exclude who is coming here. Bruce Pearl and Brad Stevens (do you people watch the NBA?) are not coming here. Shake Smart is also off the list, along with Tom Crean because of his incredibly ridiculous buyout.
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Crean's buyout only applies if he were to be fired by IU. It does NOT apply if he leaves on his own.

Just thought I'd clarify :hi:
 
#37
#37
InVOLuntary said:
You can scratch Miller off the list. There is zero chance that Dave Hart will spend that kind of money on a bb coach. That's as much as Butch makes. My guess is he spends less than $2M per year.
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Unfortunately, You are right. UT doesn't take basketball serious enough to get Miller.
 
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#39
#39
CAVol said:
Won't happen.

Those suggesting we spend 3+ million on a basketball coach are crazy. You really think we're gonna pay a men's basketball coach more than Butch? No way.
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Why wouldn't it happen? He's relatively young, a winner who has NCAA tournament experience, and would be a helluva lot lot less than 3 mil per year.
 
#42
#42
Being able to recruit high level talent is the key to this hire. We can get the best x's and o's coach out there, but if he can't get the talent in here to be competitive, then it's another coaching search in 3-4 years. Any young mid-major coach, with the exception of Archie Miller, is going to be a risky hire. Miller is my 1st choice, but that may be a long shot. If I can't pull him or Marshall, then I'm going with Barnes. May not be the best coach out there, but he has experience and will be able to get some true talent in here. To me, he may not have the highest ceiling, but he could bring stability and get some good talent in here.
 
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#44
#44
Mack or Miller would be great but doubt we get either unless we offer serious money.
After those two, Prohm then maybe Underwood. I don't think Barnes is a solution. He's older and how hungry can be after all those years at Texas? Texas is a better basketball situation than UT, if only because it is easier to recruit there.

is bama chasing gregg marshall of wichita state? I'm sure they'll offer him a lot of money, and I'm sure he'd be crazy to go to a football school whose bb program is even weaker than ours.
 
#45
#45
zjcvols said:
2. This isn't a dumpster fire

Right now, everyone believes this is a really bad situation. I will say that it's not ideal. But this is not a horrible place to coach. Honestly, I think this program is in a better situation than it was in 2010 after Pearl's firing and after last year when Martin left. In 2010, Tennessee was dealing with the NCAA. When Martin left, Tennessee was dealing with a bad national perception. This year, neither are factors. The roster is bad, but right now Tennessee still is a brand name in basketball, with great facilities and a fanbase that supports basketball. It's a good job and should be treated as such. You can win at Tennessee and have this program as a top 25 program by 2017-2018 with really good recruiting. Having said that....
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Have you been watching any TV this season or keeping up with social media?
Our fanbase is characterized in the media as Redneck idiots or the trailer trash of the Jerry Green days.
Our admin is being questioned as incompetent with a pattern of hiring and then firing sleazes.
You think recruits live in a bubble?
It is a dumpster fire and it will take a respected name and an experienced and steady hand to keep from being consumed.
Suggestions of again rolling the dice with inexperienced 2 or 3 year wonders aren't just ludicrous; they're dangerous.
 
#46
#46
Good post OP. I don't think we spend the money to get a guy like Miller and I agree that Prohm, Holtmann, and Underwood are probably the most legitimate options and fit Hart's profile as you described. If I was a betting man - I'd go with Holtmann, although I would prefer Byrd or Barnes or a similar type to stabilize the program.
 
#47
#47
vols 30 said:
Unfortunately, You are right. UT doesn't take basketball serious enough to get Miller.
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Good post. Now we'll see what Hart does. I just hope he doesn't get tunnel vision on Barnes. Not saying I don't want Barnes, just don't think he is a good in game coach. Great recruiter,but his teams under achieves especially during tourney time.
 
#49
#49
calban said:
Have you been watching any TV this season or keeping up with social media?
Our fanbase is characterized in the media as Redneck idiots or the trailer trash of the Jerry Green days.
Our admin is being questioned as incompetent with a pattern of hiring and then firing sleazes.
You think recruits live in a bubble?
It is a dumpster fire and it will take a respected name and an experienced and steady hand to keep from being consumed.
Suggestions of again rolling the dice with inexperienced 2 or 3 year wonders aren't just ludicrous; they're dangerous.
Click to expand...

Not all the fans, just the ones that signed that stupid petition.
 
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#50
#50
SlyStone said:
Good post. Now we'll see what Hart does. I just hope he doesn't get tunnel vision on Barnes. Not saying I don't want Barnes, just don't think he is a good in game coach. Great recruiter,but his teams under achieves especially during tourney time.
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Maybe exactly the reason Barnes is seen as an under achiever.
It's been known for years as expressed by the Texas fanbase that he isn't the best game coach.
Had they realized this about 4 years ago and that he had reached his ceiling he might be perceived today as what his specialty is. He's a program builder. done it at every stop.
Exactly what this program needs, with the understanding of his purpose and future.
Doubt seriously if he considers the job.
 
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