Realistically speaking -

#76
#76
IknoxvolsI said:
Hurd just plain out sucked! I know alot of you posters idolized him in HS and he was a good HS football player but in the SEC he sucked!

Butch Jones sucks (period).

Hurd did not have speed. Had some vision. Was not elusive. Was not fluid when he ran. No balance. Just big and an instate product.

Jones, well, he just doesn't have what it takes!

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Are there any other players and coaches who wear or wore orange that you would like to point out how bad they suck?

Tell us honestly, what colors do you wear on Saturday? I have a suspicion that Pantone 151 isn't one of them.

Not because you have negative things to say about Hurd or Jones, but because saying negative things about people in orange seems to give you joy.
 
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#77
#77
fade route said:
Interesting. I was told by most of VN that Franklin was a clown who couldn't coach. Looks like he's doing pretty good for a guy who took over the worst PR gig imaginable.
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Yep. UT fans whine and wring their hands over the devestation of Dooley, but it was nothing compared to how bad the PSU situation was. Yet Franklin has them playing in champ game and finishing in the top 10.
 
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#78
#78
Roustabout said:
Yep. UT fans whine and wring their hands over the devestation of Dooley, but it was nothing compared to how bad the PSU situation was. Yet Franklin has them playing in champ game and finishing in the top 10.
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Penn State was a crime, a horrific one, and Dooley was just an idiot.

So you're right, in that sense, no comparison.

But in their impacts on the two programs, not as different as you might think.

In both cases, ties to local/in-state communities and high school coaches were badly damaged, severely affecting recruiting.

In both cases, rosters were depleted of top grade talent over a short period of time.

But in fact, the Penn State program benefited from the NCAA over-reaching their authority, causing ESPN and other sports coverage to come to their defense after the initial horror settled out...almost portraying Penn State as a rags-to-riches comeback story that greatly helped Franklin recruit once he was on board.

So I wouldn't be that quick to say Penn State had it worse, once the initial shock and disgust played out. They fell further, but were helped to recover much faster by outside forces.

Anyway, I may be over-stating the comparison...but there's something to it, just not sure of the degree.
 
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#79
#79
VFL-82-JP said:
Penn State was a crime, a horrific one, and Dooley was just an idiot.

So you're right, in that sense, no comparison.

But in their impacts on the two programs, not as different as you might think.

In both cases, ties to local/in-state communities and high school coaches were badly damaged, severely affecting recruiting.

In both cases, rosters were depleted of top grade talent over a short period of time.

But in fact, the Penn State program benefited from the NCAA over-reaching their authority, causing ESPN and other sports coverage to come to their defense after the initial horror settled out...almost portraying Penn State as a rags-to-riches comeback story that greatly helped Franklin recruit once he was on board.

So I wouldn't be that quick to say Penn State had it worse, once the initial shock and disgust played out. They fell further, but were helped to recover much faster by outside forces.

Anyway, I may be over-stating the comparison...but there's something to it, just not sure of the degree.
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The whole thing turned out to be a ruse. The NCAA began walking back probation in 13 and by 15 all sanctions lifted. It is the university it's self that is shelling out tens of millions of dollars though it was solely
in the football facilities that the crimes were committed. All the while protecting the blue blood football program. Some body has to say it.
 
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#80
#80
Roustabout said:
Yep. UT fans whine and wring their hands over the devestation of Dooley, but it was nothing compared to how bad the PSU situation was. Yet Franklin has them playing in champ game and finishing in the top 10.
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Franklin had a pretty good buffer in Bill O'Brien who coached at PSU before he arrived. And the year before he arrived PSU had recruited at least one offensive lineman.
 
#81
#81
KBVol said:
If that's the case, he should've been run off before game 1. That said, I thought he played/ran very hard up until and vs Florida in game 4. It was game 5 vs Ga when it all went to hell and whatever eventually happened became boiling to a head.
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You nailed it, and I will zero in a bit more. It was that one play against Georgia that did it. Hurd's fragile ego couldn't take some hard coaching even when it was warranted.
 
#83
#83
IknoxvolsI said:
This^^^^^^^is why Jones can't get it done!
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I am not in the "CBJ can't get it done" camp yet, but the clock is ticking AND as another poster somewhere on VN posted recently, Butch is in a results based business. Being HC of the Vols is not an effort based position. KB's point about the gators vs LSU and Vols vs Vandy last season is valid. I prefer to believe some of our defensive position coaches were not performing well and that our DC & HC were not the issue. Those coaches have been replaced therefore I expect the defense for 121 to be exponentially better overall. Yes, I played and have one brother who was an all city player back in the day and another brother who got a full ride as a QB at an OVC school back in the day. The game has not changed as much as many want us to believe, it still comes down to whichever team blocks, tackles, executes the best, and makes the least mistakes ... ... miraculously wins most of the time in college football.
 
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#84
#84
VFL-82-JP said:
Penn State was a crime, a horrific one, and Dooley was just an idiot.

So you're right, in that sense, no comparison.

But in their impacts on the two programs, not as different as you might think.

In both cases, ties to local/in-state communities and high school coaches were badly damaged, severely affecting recruiting.

In both cases, rosters were depleted of top grade talent over a short period of time.

But in fact, the Penn State program benefited from the NCAA over-reaching their authority, causing ESPN and other sports coverage to come to their defense after the initial horror settled out...almost portraying Penn State as a rags-to-riches comeback story that greatly helped Franklin recruit once he was on board.

So I wouldn't be that quick to say Penn State had it worse, once the initial shock and disgust played out. They fell further, but were helped to recover much faster by outside forces.

Anyway, I may be over-stating the comparison...but there's something to it, just not sure of the degree.
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Penn State actually incurred penalties from the NCAA. I don't understand where you are getting this.
Franklin was on the hot seat and Shoop leaving was even seen as evidence of the demise of the program. That's the coverage I remember. I don't know where you're getting this other stuff. Franklin quickly turned lemons into lemonade. Their last four classes were composite 15, 20, 15, 24. Decent, but nothing to indicate what happened last year.
 
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#85
#85
IknoxvolsI said:
Hurd just plain out sucked! I know alot of you posters idolized him in HS and he was a good HS football player but in the SEC he sucked!

Butch Jones sucks (period).

Hurd did not have speed. Had some vision. Was not elusive. Was not fluid when he ran. No balance. Just big and an instate product.

Jones, well, he just doesn't have what it takes!

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He absolutely did not suck. He was a very talented player that was mismanaged. He also wasn't very mature. But, he did not suck. However, it's easy to find TN "fans" on this forum that suck.
 
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#86
#86
IMHO this year is butches all or nothing year.. Regardless. If there is not some improvements.. Idk if he will be gone but for sure on the hot seat in 2018.

I'm not for coach getting canned but.. The Vols fans are yearning for a winning season and a championship.. It's been too long.

I'm not so sure butch is our coach to get it done.. But we will not know if anything has changed until the first play on game day on labor day.

Gbo
 
#87
#87
TJ1985 said:
He absolutely did not suck. He was a very talented player that was mismanaged. He also wasn't very mature. But, he did not suck. However, it's easy to find TN "fans" on this forum that suck.
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He didn't suck. But he was nowhere near the talented, transformative running back most thought we were getting.
 
#88
#88
KBVol said:
He didn't suck. But he was nowhere near the talented, transformative running back most thought we were getting.
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I cannot cosign he sucked either, he failed demonstrably as a player and teammate on The Hill. There was a deep character deficit most of us did not know was in place within him. Chances are CBJ may have had first experience with a kid like this, national high rating, talented, and won the recruiting battle for him. I suspect he would avoid altogether or handle a head case in the future similar to Hurd much differently. My opinion is he tried to protect Hurd but ended up hurting him worse hiding his flaws rather than confronting them early on at UT.
 
#89
#89
KBVol said:
He didn't suck. But he was nowhere near the talented, transformative running back most thought we were getting.
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I'm not trying to defend Hurd. I can definitely agree that he wasn't that dominant back we all hoped we were getting. However, I remember how common it was for him to have to break tackles behind the line of scrimmage. Play calling also had him running east to west a little too much. He's a north south back. I think he was a terrible teammate, self centered, and used improperly. He also ate a lot of the carries that should've gone to Kamara. But, Hurd is undoubtedly a gifted athlete and could've made a more impressive impact under a different scheme.
 
#91
#91
Remy said:
I cannot cosign he sucked either, he failed demonstrably as a player and teammate on The Hill. There was a deep character deficit most of us did not know was in place within him. Chances are CBJ may have had first experience with a kid like this, national high rating, talented, and won the recruiting battle for him. I suspect he would avoid altogether or handle a head case in the future similar to Hurd much differently. My opinion is he tried to protect Hurd but ended up hurting him worse hiding his flaws rather than confronting them early on at UT.
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He was more than a bust! How else to define him? Everybody on here raved about him. To me, he was no Charlie Garner, Aron Hayden, Jamal Lewis or either of the Travis'. Even Monterio Hardesty was multiple levels above him. As much as I hate to say it, Aaron Foster was twice the back.

All hype-little substance=he sucked!
 
#92
#92
Bms4880 said:
James Franklin blows.
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He does indeed blow. I actually think the punk swallows. But you gotta give it to him for the bounce back year at Penn State last year. I thought he was done, especially after losing Shoop who I made the case had been carrying Franklin the last 5 years at 2 different programs. I was dead wrong. Franklin won the Big 10 without Shoop....while Shoop was the second coming of Sunseri at Tennessee.
 
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#93
#93
fade route said:
Interesting. I was told by most of VN that Franklin was a clown who couldn't coach. Looks like he's doing pretty good for a guy who took over the worst PR gig imaginable.
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The dude can coach anybody that can lead Vandy to 2 straight 9 win seasons can coach i don't like him but he can coach and recruit.:eek:hmy:
 
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#95
#95
IknoxvolsI said:
He was more than a bust! How else to define him? Everybody on here raved about him. To me, he was no Charlie Garner, Aron Hayden, Jamal Lewis or either of the Travis'. Even Monterio Hardesty was multiple levels above him. As much as I hate to say it, Aaron Foster was twice the back.

All hype-little substance=he sucked!
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We didn't use him right he was a power back that should have ran out of the I he didn't fit our system plus look at our OL his first 2 years he got most of the yards on his own i don't like the way he quit on us but i will always wonder what he would have done with a good OL and ran out of the I.
 
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#99
#99
Ace said:
He never led Vandy to 3 straight 9 win seasons
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And, if you go back and look at it he did it with smoke and mirrors....right place and the right time kinda stuff, yet never finished higher than 4th in a bad, down East. He gets marks for having had success at VANDERBILT, which nobody else has, but until last year at Penn State, it was difficult to make a case that he was an outstanding coach.
 
#100
#100
terrypedigo said:
We didn't use him right he was a power back that should have ran out of the I he didn't fit our system plus look at our OL his first 2 years he got most of the yards on his own i don't like the way he quit on us but i will always wonder what he would have done with a good OL and ran out of the I.
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I agree with some of this, our offense wasn't a good fit for him. However, if he had really been the transcendent "huge" RB with 4.37 speed, would it have mattered?

Fact is, he by no means was and it very much did. He simply didn't have the physical talent, skills, instincts running the football that we all thought he was gonna have when he got here. He was good, solid, but nowhere near an elite running back.
 
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