OFFICIAL Chi Cubs Thread: Anyone can have a bad century/this is the year

#51
#51
I would also like to point out that I am thrilled about Soto. Good catchers are hard to find, and good catchers that can hit are extremely rare.
 
#53
#53
VOLNBAMA said:
Edmonds was a beast today. 3-4, HR, 3 RBI
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I don't mean to be a basher, but the wind was blowing out at 15 mph. Plus he is still batting what .180. With Pie being a 5 tool player I think he would have a few games like this, and he needs the time to see MLB pitching. I would just rather him be playing with his age and lack of experience. Would you rather have the future playing or the past. The stats don't lie Pie's line .222 avg .286 obp 1 hr 7 rbi and 2 sb in in 63 at bats. Edmonds .186 avg .260 obp 2 hr 9 rbi and 2 sb in 118 at bats. So this year Pie has equaled or bettered Edmonds in almost half the at bats. Having said that Lou knows a lot more about baseball than me, and he also has the best team in MLB so what he goes with I'm cool with. Just wish he hadn't given up on Pie is all.:good!:
 
#60
#60
localvol said:
I don't mean to be a basher, but the wind was blowing out at 15 mph. Plus he is still batting what .180. With Pie being a 5 tool player I think he would have a few games like this, and he needs the time to see MLB pitching. I would just rather him be playing with his age and lack of experience. Would you rather have the future playing or the past. The stats don't lie Pie's line .222 avg .286 obp 1 hr 7 rbi and 2 sb in in 63 at bats. Edmonds .186 avg .260 obp 2 hr 9 rbi and 2 sb in 118 at bats. So this year Pie has equaled or bettered Edmonds in almost half the at bats. Having said that Lou knows a lot more about baseball than me, and he also has the best team in MLB so what he goes with I'm cool with. Just wish he hadn't given up on Pie is all.:good!:
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Pie is missing 2 tools from being a five tool player.
 
#63
#63
vols kick balls said:
Those hitting for average and hitting for power ones. Those are pretty big ones.
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Yes in the majors he has struggled. In the minors however he has excelled in both. 2007 stats at AAA Iowa .362 avg 9 doubles 5 triples 9 hrs 43 rbis obp of .410 .973 ops and a .563 slg in 55 games. Looks like a 5 tool guy to me.:dance2: He just needs to shorten his swing a little and be a little more patient at the plate. Imo he presses a little bit at the MLB level. He definitely has the tools to be great.:good!:
 
#65
#65
localvol said:
Yes in the majors he has struggled. In the minors however he has excelled in both. 2007 stats at AAA Iowa .362 avg 9 doubles 5 triples 9 hrs 43 rbis obp of .410 .973 ops and a .563 slg in 55 games. Looks like a 5 tool guy to me.:dance2: He just needs to shorten his swing a little and be a little more patient at the plate. Imo he presses a little bit at the MLB level. He definitely has the tools to be great.:good!:
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He has 5 tools against minor leagues... sure. I really doubt he will turn into a 5 tool player in the majors. I think the average will come around and he will turn into a really good player but I have no faith in him being able to turn his power into a plus at the major league level.

That is not saying he won't be good but he will never be a true 5 tool player. A 4 tool CFer with a good average is still a very valuable player to have. He has looked completely lost in the majors so far though.
 
#66
#66
localvol said:
I left out his 9 sb last year. That translates into nearly a 30 30 guy in a full MLB season.:salute:
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If he hits the same at the major league level that he did in the minors. There is no way in hell that happens. He will never hit 30 HRs in a season in the majors.
 
#69
#69
vols kick balls said:
If he hits the same at the major league level that he did in the minors. There is no way in hell that happens. He will never hit 30 HRs in a season in the majors.
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I don't think so either. But still with limited at bats in MLB his minor stats are all I can go with. I would like to see him get his avg and obp up to be the true lead off guy that we need. :good!:
 
#71
#71
localvol said:
I don't think so either. But still with limited at bats in MLB his minor stats are all I can go with. I would like to see him get his avg and obp up to be the true lead off guy that we need. :good!:
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240 ABs isn't a small sample size. It just doesn't support your case so you choose to go with his minors numbers. He looks like Corey Patterson going by the stats and scouting reports. Both were ridiculously atheletic and said to have 5 tools. Both got started off on slow starts in the majors. Pie may walk a little more but other than that they look pretty similar.
 
#72
#72
localvol said:
I hate that comparison I really do. Pie is sooo much better than Cpat could ever be.
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BS. Patterson was just as highly touted as Pie was when he came up. Both have holes in their swings and could keep them for ever really hitting for great average or good power at the major league level.
 
#73
#73
vols kick balls said:
240 ABs isn't a small sample size. It just doesn't support your case so you choose to go with his minors numbers. He looks like Corey Patterson going by the stats and scouting reports. Both were ridiculously atheletic and said to have 5 tools. Both got started off on slow starts in the majors. Pie may walk a little more but other than that they look pretty similar.
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240 at bats is a very small sample size less than half a season.I'd like to see a full season of plate appearances 500-550 maybe two full seasons to see if he can shorten his swing a little. Cpat was not ridiculously athletic he was skinny and very fast but not half the athlete Pie is. Nor did he have the arm Pie has. It is rare for rookies to be successful in their first FULL season, and Pie hasn't been given that yet.

I have enjoyed our debate very much, but alas I have to go to bed.:salute: I will leave you with this question and look forward to seeing your answer in the morning.
Would you at this point rather have Pie getting reps in the majors or have Edmonds out in center feild? They have nearly equal stats this year Pie a little better but pretty close.:peace2:
 
#74
#74
vols kick balls said:
BS. Patterson was just as highly touted as Pie was when he came up. Both have holes in their swings and could keep them for ever really hitting for great average or good power at the major league level.
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With this I totally agree with you. Both think they should hit 50 hrs. When both should have more bunts for hits than hrs.:eek:k:
 
#75
#75
localvol said:
240 at bats is a very small sample size less than half a season.I'd like to see a full season of plate appearances 500-550 maybe two full seasons to see if he can shorten his swing a little. Cpat was not ridiculously athletic he was skinny and very fast but not half the athlete Pie is. Nor did he have the arm Pie has. It is rare for rookies to be successful in their first FULL season, and Pie hasn't been given that yet.
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Pie is better defensively because of his arm. Other than that they are both very similar and I'd bet they will have similar career paths (Pie a little better). Similarities- Patterson was named the Cubs top prospect 3 consecutive years because of his athleticism and potential tools. Pie was named the Cubs top prospect because of his athleticism and potential tools. Both started out very similarly in the majors and despite what you think 1/2 a season worth of ABs is not a small sample size.

Corey Patterson's first 173 ABs: .208 BA, .335 slugging, .260 OBP, .595 OPS

Felix Pie's first 177 ABs: .215 BA, .333 slugging, .271 OBP, .604 OPS

Corey Patterson got better (not much) and so will Felix Pie. Pie will hit for a slightly better average and a slightly better OBP.


I have enjoyed our debate very much, but alas I have to go to bed.:salute: I will leave you with this question and look forward to seeing your answer in the morning.
Would you at this point rather have Pie getting reps in the majors or have Edmonds out in center feild? They have nearly equal stats this year Pie a little better but pretty close.:peace2:
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Having Edmonds as a stop-gap right now is fine. I'd have Pie in AAA trying to get his hitting fixed because they obviously called him up before he was ready for that kind of competition. You can get away with stuff in the minors that you can't in the majors based on pure talent. I'd have a hitting coach that the Cubs trusted very much down there working with him every day, which I'm sure they do. I think the Cubs are doing the right thing in this situation. Pie is still really young and a couple more months in the minors that could help his future overall will not hurt his career. It's not like the Cubs desperately need him right now either.
 
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