Official 2017-18 NBA Season Thread

#826
#826
95 Vol Alum said:
I think he would rethink his approach with Kyrie. Maybe that doesn’t change the decision to leave, but I think he didn’t want him gone but maybe didn’t convince Kyrie.
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I mean everyone wants to play with LBJ, probably thought he didn't have to convince him.
 
#827
#827
n_huffhines said:
Do you think Lebron generally makes his teammates better? It's a simple question.
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All stars make the surrounding components better would be one argument. They draw so much attention it allows others to flourish, if they can.

I mean, how do you even measure such a thing. Do shooting efficiencies go up? Per games go up? I don’t think it is quantifiable. I believe Lebron believes he makes guys better than Russ does.
 
#829
#829
BadJerry20 said:
Why would I answer your question when you refuse to address you blaming Russ, yet say its too early for the Cavs?
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I feel like you're trying to make me argue a position you actually agree with. You do think Lebron makes his teammates better, right?

I'm not just looking at this season in my judgement of Russ. I'm looking at his entire career. Remember last year when I tried to claim Russ did have a teammate he could try to lean on in Oladipo and you weren't having it? Durant got better when he left.

Personally, I think Russ makes 3 and D wings and screen and roll bigs better, but he's such a ball dominant guy that he has a hard time meshing with anybody else who needs the ball to maximize contribution.

Personally, I think Lebron meshes well with all different kinds of styles of player. BTW, Bosh had his most efficient scoring season with Lebron. Same with Love. And I loved that you counted IT after they've played together 100 minutes. :good!:
 
#830
#830
95 Vol Alum said:
All stars make the surrounding components better would be one argument. They draw so much attention it allows others to flourish, if they can.

I mean, how do you even measure such a thing. Do shooting efficiencies go up? Per games go up? I don’t think it is quantifiable. I believe Lebron believes he makes guys better than Russ does.
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I think LBJ and Russ "make teammates better" in similar ways, and similar to Mike. They draw so much attention like you said, and I think by sheer force they can cover a guys deficiencies. Now I think guys like Stockton, Magic, and even Nash did it a different way, by getting guys the best shots possible to be successful. I think the first 3 are actually better with middle of the road guys to a degree, while the last 3 make stars even bigger stars. If that makes sense.
 
#833
#833
n_huffhines said:
I feel like you're trying to make me argue a position you actually agree with. You do think Lebron makes his teammates better, right?

I'm not just looking at this season in my judgement of Russ. I'm looking at his entire career. Remember last year when I tried to claim Russ did have a teammate he could try to lean on in Oladipo and you weren't having it? Durant got better when he left.

Personally, I think Russ makes 3 and D wings and screen and roll bigs better, but he's such a ball dominant guy that he has a hard time meshing with anybody else who needs the ball to maximize contribution.

Personally, I think Lebron meshes well with all different kinds of styles of player. BTW, Bosh had his most efficient scoring season with Lebron. Same with Love. And I loved that you counted IT after they've played together 100 minutes. :good!:
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VO was lost last year even when Russ wasn't on the court, I can't explain that. Love and Bosh had their best Pts, Rbs, Asts, etc pre-Lebron, so it depends on what you look at. And they fixed their games to mesh with his, not the other way around. And you mentioned IT first doofus, doesn't change the other 8 guys I named. Your boy is awful this year.
 
#836
#836
95 Vol Alum said:
All stars make the surrounding components better would be one argument. They draw so much attention it allows others to flourish, if they can.

I mean, how do you even measure such a thing. Do shooting efficiencies go up? Per games go up? I don’t think it is quantifiable. I believe Lebron believes he makes guys better than Russ does.
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If you are Lebron's teammate, you will likely see rebounds go down slightly, points go down some, and maybe assists, too. You pretty much expect that from any star who is a stat machine. I think shooting efficiency is a quantifiable way to look at it, though that's not complete.
 
#838
#838
BadJerry20 said:
VO was lost last year even when Russ wasn't on the court, I can't explain that. Love and Bosh had their best Pts, Rbs, Asts, etc pre-Lebron, so it depends on what you look at. And they fixed their games to mesh with his, not the other way around. And you mentioned IT first doofus, doesn't change the other 8 guys I named. Your boy is awful this year.
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Of course they did. That's what happens when you're the only star in Toronto/Minnesota and then you are suddenly playing with other stars.
 
#840
#840
BadJerry20 said:
VO was lost last year even when Russ wasn't on the court, I can't explain that. Love and Bosh had their best Pts, Rbs, Asts, etc pre-Lebron, so it depends on what you look at. And they fixed their games to mesh with his, not the other way around. And you mentioned IT first doofus, doesn't change the other 8 guys I named. Your boy is awful this year.
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Nice try, I mentioned IT before we were having this discussion about whether or not Lebron makes teammates better.
 
#842
#842
n_huffhines said:
Of course they did. That's what happens when you're the only star in Toronto/Minnesota and then you are suddenly playing with other stars.
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I think they stayed the same. It’s not like Lebron just taught them how to play better. Basically they get better looks but that isn’t making them better.
 
#843
#843
BTW comparing how guys that left Russ did compared to guys that left LBJ is about the dumbest thing anyone could do.


KD, Harden, VO, Kanter, Reg, Serge, Sabonis vs Mo Williams, Z, Booby, Varejao. I mean come on, the first group would be the 1 seed in the east.
 
#845
#845
BadJerry20 said:
And they adjusted their games to fit his, how is that him making them better?
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It's sort of independent of that notion, right? If Bosh is taking less shots because he's teammates with Lebron, that doesn't tell us one way or another if he's become a better player. That being said, I don't know that Bosh was necessarily his best self with Lebron.
 
#846
#846
n_huffhines said:
It's sort of independent of that notion, right? If Bosh is taking less shots because he's teammates with Lebron, that doesn't tell us one way or another if he's become a better player. That being said, I don't know that Bosh was necessarily his best self with Lebron.
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My point is guys generally mesh their games to his, not the other way around. Which is how it should be with stars and was OKCs problem early on. For me the only guys you can drop a guy on their team and they become better are generally pass first PGs, Magic, Nash, Stockton, Kidd etc, because it's a natural thing for them to get others involved. I think the whole he makes them better thing is silly, most stars are going to get guys better looks because of attention. Doesn't mean any part of their game has necessarily gotten better. At the same time other parts of their game will suffer from playing with stars, which doesn't mean parts of their game is worse. Just like playing on a lesser team will inflate stats.
 
#847
#847
That being said, VO is 100 times better, and that I can't explain. Maybe him watching Russ in attack mode constantly made him realize that's what he needed to do. So Russ made him better...ok probably not. Lol
 
#848
#848
BadJerry20 said:
My point is guys generally mesh their games to his, not the other way around. Which is how it should be with stars and was OKCs problem early on. For me the only guys you can drop a guy on their team and they become better are generally pass first PGs, Magic, Nash, Stockton, Kidd etc, because it's a natural thing for them to get others involved. I think the whole he makes them better thing is silly, most stars are going to get guys better looks because of attention. Doesn't mean any part of their game has necessarily gotten better. At the same time other parts of their game will suffer from playing with stars, which doesn't mean parts of their game is worse. Just like playing on a lesser team will inflate stats.
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System can play a big role. In both cases, guys are leaving Lue and Donovan and going to Stevens and Kerr. They don't even belong in the same league. Don't have a strong opinion about the Pacers coach (McMillan). I like Hornacek (Kanter), tho.
 
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