Obama commutes Chelsea Manning's sentence.

#51
#51
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Exposing war crimes is always a good thing.

Bradley Manning Uncovered U.S. Torture, Abuse, Soldiers Laughing As They Killed Innocent Civilians | The Huffington Post
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regardless of consequences to other lives?

where I contrast Manning and Snowden is that Snowden chose to release abuses - he parsed the information he had access to. Manning exposed massive amounts of data much of which revealed sources and methods to the enemy for the few nuggets. If he'd edited the data to only release the abuses I'd have more sympathy.
 
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#53
#53
volinbham said:
regardless of consequences to other lives?

where I contrast Manning and Snowden is that Snowden chose to release abuses - he parsed the information he had access to. Manning exposed massive amounts of data much of which revealed sources and methods to the enemy for the few nuggets. If he'd edited the data to only release the abuses I'd have more sympathy.
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It is what it is. Perhaps it could be used as a lesson to future generations not to engage in occupation of foreign lands.
 
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#54
#54
GoBigOrangeUT said:
I see it didn't take the mouth breathers long to turn this into a "call Michelle Obama a tranny" circle jerk.
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Maybe that's not his motivation. Maybe Barack is actually a genuinely nice guy who's just been held captive by the CIA deep state and their pizza parties these last 8 years
 
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#59
#59
1972 Grad said:
Why would anyone come to VN looking for class?
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Despite the un-bathed vagrants like LG that defecate on the pages of this venerated site, I strive to maintain the dignity of these hallowed halls. Just know that I don a top hat and monocle whilst posting, but am unafraid to call a tranny a tranny when I see one
 
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#61
#61
golfballs said:
Despite the un-bathed vagrants like LG that defecate on the pages of this venerated site, I strive to maintain the dignity of these hallowed halls. Just know that I don a top hat and monocle whilst posting, but am unafraid to call a tranny a tranny when I see one
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Indeed, I picture you as Mr peanut in a top hat and monacle 😂
 
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#63
#63
golfballs said:
Despite the un-bathed vagrants like LG that defecate on the pages of this venerated site, I strive to maintain the dignity of these hallowed halls. Just know that I don a top hat and monocle whilst posting, but am unafraid to call a tranny a tranny when I see one
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Certainly not a unicorn.
 
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#64
#64
volinbham said:
regardless of consequences to other lives?

where I contrast Manning and Snowden is that Snowden chose to release abuses - he parsed the information he had access to. Manning exposed massive amounts of data much of which revealed sources and methods to the enemy for the few nuggets. If he'd edited the data to only release the abuses I'd have more sympathy.
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Something Assange brings up when talking about why he never edits dumps is that he doesn't want his motives to be construed as anything other than exposing corruption. If he chose to redact parts, skeptics would pour in to discredit him and question his motives, thus possibly compromising the legitimacy of wikileaks as an organization.

Now obviously Manning isn't a wikileaks employee, but he still could have had a similar outlook with regard to leaking info. If he had not leaked everything he could have been discredited and accused of selectively editing for ulterior motives. The last thing someone wants who has risked their life trying to blow the whistle, is to be discredited because they're thought to have ulterior motives.
 
#65
#65
SamRebel35 said:
Something Assange brings up when talking about why he never edits dumps is that he doesn't want his motives to be construed as anything other than exposing corruption. If he chose to redact parts, skeptics would pour in to discredit him and question his motives, thus possibly compromising the legitimacy of wikileaks as an organization.

Now obviously Manning isn't a wikileaks employee, but he still could have had a similar outlook with regard to leaking info. If he had not leaked everything he could have been discredited and accused of selectively editing for ulterior motives. The last thing someone wants who has risked their life trying to blow the whistle, is to be discredited because they're thought to have ulterior motives.
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all this assumes what was revealed was corruption. Manning could have released all files about abuses (the whole dang thing) but not release thing that had nothing to do with corruption.

I would imagine 90+% of the massive document dump wasn't about US abuses.

Further if we follow this logic then there should be no penalty for anyone ever for releasing classified information so long as at least one item in the release suggests someone did something wrong.
 
#66
#66
SamRebel35 said:
Assange's lawyer has said he will stand by the deal he offered to Obama. He will allow himself to be extradited to the US if Manning was pardoned. So long, Assange. Appreciated all the exposure you gave to corrupt regimes around the world. Hope your "heart attack" won't be too painful.
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raw
 
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#67
#67
volinbham said:
Of the two - Snowden looks more like a whistle blower. Manning just did a massive data dump.

I'd argue Snowden is more deserving of a pardon than Manning.
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You can't pardon a man who is under the watchful eye of the FSB. An NSA contractor doesn't flee to Russia without first agreeing to tell their intelligence services all he knows.
 
#68
#68
We need more whistle blowers. I love how we have laws that businesses can't retaliate against whistle blowers, but whistleblowing on the government is treason.

Whistleblowing = airing out abuse by an organization.
 
#69
#69
carlos86 said:
You can't pardon a man who is under the watchful eye of the FSB. An NSA contractor doesn't flee to Russia without first agreeing to tell their intelligence services all he knows.
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Flee to Russia or be charged with Treason. Not a lot of choice there.
 
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#72
#72
I like some of the explanation they used. Manning stayed behind and faced her punishment, faced the courts and trials. Snowden ran off and works for the enemy. if exposing the evils of America is what they want to do they aren't going to try and save themselves before the info comes out. Snowden showed clear thought to his own skin first as well as a willingness to work with the enemy.

Manning = whistleblower
Snowden = traitor
 
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