nortwestern football players looking to join a union

[LSU-SIU]

You are reaching WAAAY to high to try and get a comparison......NLRB has already looked at this and said that they are in NO WAY employees......case closed!

Then they are contractors, it really doesn't matter. If I setup the same scam, I would be in jail. End of story.

The schools know exactly what is going on, this is not the only legal action that will be taken place. Matter of fact, there are all kinds of legal actions right now of individuals suing from injury claims to using like and appearances.

It's just a matter of time. Setup a business where you pay people room and board on a large scale and see what happens. The AGs from any of the States could shut this down in an instant.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Wether they go union or not doesn't really matter, and I think the scholly and all the benifits the players are getting now should be ALL the money the universities pay out for these student athletes, BUT!!! I also think if said student athlete gets offered money for an autograph or someone ,wether a booster or whoever gives them money or buys them a meal then that is between the athlete and the individual and is nobodies business. OR if the schools maybe instead of a flat across the board dollar amount for every athlete have some type of bonus program set up for certain achievements like wins plus a certain gpa, or maybe something like no bonus until your junior year and base it off of achievements and or grades from previous year...I don't know. . I do think there needs to be some kind of change but it needs to be fair so as to not seperate the fact that these players are still students too.

That is basically how I feel. Get the NCAA out of the business of regulating the kids outside of the 4 corners of the playing field. The schools should not be colluding with other schools to stop transfers or stop payments. Treat the kids just like any other student.... which for some schools like the military academies are already doing or the lower divisions.

Let each school make up their own minds.

If these kids are so called "students", then they should be treated them like any joe student.... when you dictating and colluding to stop students from transferring and/or receiving money/gifts they certainly are not students and even being forced to take drug test.

They are definitely working for the school and indirectly the ncaa.

 

[jp1]

That is basically how I feel. Get the NCAA out of the business of regulating the kids outside of the 4 corners of the playing field. The schools should not be colluding with other schools to stop transfers or stop payments. Treat the kids just like any other student.... which for some schools like the military academies are already doing or the lower divisions.

Let each school make up their own minds.

If these kids are so called "students", then they should be treated them like any joe student.... when you dictating and colluding to stop students from transferring and/or receiving money/gifts they certainly are not students and even being forced to take drug test.

They are definitely working for the school and indirectly the ncaa.

Remove the NCAA from the argument for a second....would they then be treated as " any joe student"?

If so, I have a nephew over there right now that would love to have some new shoes/clothes, as much food as he wants, access to training facilities, academic help, and free board. I could go on and on.

I had to pay to get in to a high school basketball game the other night. The I'm sure the coach is compensated pretty well. Should the players then be paid because people are making money off them?

 

[Through_The_T]

That is basically how I feel. Get the NCAA out of the business of regulating the kids outside of the 4 corners of the playing field. The schools should not be colluding with other schools to stop transfers or stop payments. Treat the kids just like any other student.... which for some schools like the military academies are already doing or the lower divisions.

Let each school make up their own minds.

If these kids are so called "students", then they should be treated them like any joe student.... when you dictating and colluding to stop students from transferring and/or receiving money/gifts they certainly are not students and even being forced to take drug test.

They are definitely working for the school and indirectly the ncaa.

I don't understand the issue though. Every company on earth profits off of it's employees to varying extents. That's business.

That being said, the NCAA regulations regarding athletes being able to work and/or make money off of their own "brand" (ie autograph/jersey sales, appearences, etc.) is ludicrous. Normal college students would not have these type of restrictions.

 

[Vols520]

1) they should be paid something. And it ought to be uniform, across the board. I'm thinking everyone on the scholarship roster at a D1 school gets like 750/mo, plus current tuition room board books etc. No variation permitted.

2) catastrophic disability insurance.

3) health insurance.

Is number one all sports?

 

[LSU-SIU]

I don't understand the issue though. Every company on earth profits off of it's employees to varying extents. That's business.

The problem is the schools want to act like they are students when it's very obvious they are not. You are basically proving the NW players point.

That being said, the NCAA regulations regarding athletes being able to work and/or make money off of their own "brand" (ie autograph/jersey sales, appearences, etc.) is ludicrous. Normal college students would not have these type of restrictions.

I agree and disagree. Yes, I would like them to be just simple students and there is no outside influence of money, but this is reality and yes these kids have just as much right to earn like Saban, Miles and Butch.

Either way, if you ran a business like these schools, ncaa, and bowl committees do... you would be in jail.

 

[LSU-SIU]

I had to pay to get in to a high school basketball game the other night. The I'm sure the coach is compensated pretty well. Should the players then be paid because people are making money off them?

I think it would depend on the specific situation, most HS activities do not generate a profit, most of the coaches I had made very little... no way money generated from tickets made up for the stadiums, coaches, equipment, transportation, etc. What you are saying might at best pertain to 1% or less of the HS sports if that.

I think the problem is, they are not treating the kids as normal students.

The whole thing is an issue but to call a college football player in the SEC a student and collude to stop him from transferring and collecting money.... well, the truth of the matter there is no legal business that would be allow to operate like this other than sports.... and for good reason.

 

[Vols520]

What should really happen is you get high school kids I renegotiate things.

 

[Vols520]

If a coach leaves players should be able to transfer as well. Players get screwed.

 

[Vols520]

And they also aren't getting a free education. They are working for it and getting paid far below their value.

 

[LSU-SIU]

And they also aren't getting a free education. They are working for it and getting paid far below their value.

I agree in some instances, in other instances some players are getting more than their worth. The problem being the schools/ncaa are colluding to stop players from finding their true value.

I give these players less than 50% of winning at this stage, what needs to probably happen is a rico lawsuit against all the schools and the ncaa, and/or a criminal investigation by State AG's or DOJ.

Interesting enough, all of sudden the BCS was scrapped as the DOJ came and investigated. It doesn't take much to see this type of behavior would normally be considered criminal.

 

[Through_The_T]

The problem is the schools want to act like they are students when it's very obvious they are not. You are basically proving the NW players point.



I agree and disagree. Yes, I would like them to be just simple students and there is no outside influence of money, but this is reality and yes these kids have just as much right to earn like Saban, Miles and Butch.

Either way, if you ran a business like these schools, ncaa, and bowl committees do... you would be in jail.

It goes both ways though, a large majority of these athletes would never have the educational or exposure opportunities that they have, if not for athletic scholarships.

What I would propose is under 21 teams for all NFL franchises and the guys who do not wish to gain anything in the classroom go ahead and start playing there (similar to the minors in MLB) and the guys who want an education, but also want to play football at a high level, go to college and become true amateur athletes. Win-win in my book...

 

[Burger]

Id love a free education without logging or working in an oil field. This is stupid. An education is worth over 2 million dollars. Unions are going to swindle the players if they get ahold of them. Then screw them more when the players need them.

 

[utvolpj]

athletes are the only students on a campus who are prevented from using their name/skills/expertise to earn outside money. I think forming a union would be a ridiculous way to go about fixing that but something will need to change eventually

 

[CountVolcula]

My heart is breaking for those poor athletes

 

[onevol74]

That is basically how I feel. Get the NCAA out of the business of regulating the kids outside of the 4 corners of the playing field. The schools should not be colluding with other schools to stop transfers or stop payments. Treat the kids just like any other student.... which for some schools like the military academies are already doing or the lower divisions.

Let each school make up their own minds.

If these kids are so called "students", then they should be treated them like any joe student.... when you dictating and colluding to stop students from transferring and/or receiving money/gifts they certainly are not students and even being forced to take drug test.

They are definitely working for the school and indirectly the ncaa.

Your scenario makes anyone who is on any type of academic assistance a contractor. That is flawed legally.

 

[LSU-SIU]

It goes both ways though, a large majority of these athletes would never have the educational or exposure opportunities that they have, if not for athletic scholarships.

I don't think anyone could dispute that but I don't know that it matters. Nobody will ever claim that everyone will benefit nor that everyone would benefit equally.

What I would propose is under 21 teams for all NFL franchises and the guys who do not wish to gain anything in the classroom go ahead and start playing there (similar to the minors in MLB) and the guys who want an education, but also want to play football at a high level, go to college and become true amateur athletes. Win-win in my book...

That just a new sports league, not really relevant to the issues at hand. An alternative league does not solve the problem and they do not go away.

The solution is pretty simple to me...

1.) ncaa should get out of the business of regulating players outside of the 4 corners of the field, in general
2.) schools/ncaa should have no colluding agreements either written, verbally or assumed that restricts players of the field
3.) players should be able to transfer after their 1 year commitment (annual scholarship)
4.) players should be free to work, get paid, etc. without interference
5.) if a school wants to pay a player it should be up to them, but there is no need for a requirement

To me there just isn't too much to this issue, I know what the issue is.... the schools do not want a cap-less market, but that is really not my fault.

If they are students they should be treated just like normal students, it's actually pretty simple.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Your scenario makes anyone who is on any type of academic assistance a contractor. That is flawed legally.

Things are flawed before they are overturned and changed.

Many States you have to pay interns, just a few short years ago that was not the case... many States are cracking down on this sort of thing and for good reason. Justice doesn't always work overnight.

There use to be time when woman couldn't vote and black people were not able to use the white people's restrooms.

Even the academic assistance in your example can take money for his/her autograph or even money from a booster.... exactly why does a school care that one of their "students" is getting money from a booster?

The answer is simple, a market cap for football, basketball, and baseball players for the big boy divisions.

 

[sanefan]

Let them all unionize and treat them like employees. Then we can tax the compensation via payroll taxes, SS taxes, and Medicare taxes like everyone else that works has to pay. You can't just have the compensation without the responsibility to society.

Besides, we are going to need the extra money because government contract workers just got a raise to 10.10 per hour.

Here is a better idea, if you want a voice, make the NFL have a developmental league covered under the NFLPA.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Let them all unionize and treat them like employees. Then we can tax the compensation via payroll taxes, SS taxes, and Medicare taxes like everyone else that works has to pay. You can't just have the compensation without the responsibility to society.

That is basically where this is going the colleges would have to pay taxes, health insurance, workman's comp, unemployment insurance, etc. And then be subject to minimum wage standards.

Here is a better idea, if you want a voice, make the NFL have a developmental league covered under the NFLPA.

Whether or not someone makes a development league is a separate item. If LSU football players are not workers than I want to setup a business just like this.

The universities and the ncaa have caused this by going into big business. imho

All I have to say is let the colleges collude to only pay head coaches $50,000 a year and see what happens.... there would an injunction slapped on them so quick they wouldn't even know what hit them.

 

[sanefan]

I'm saying either be a student or be an employee. Go to college or go to work. Students are exploited (as you seem to feel) at every level where admission is charged, hot dogs are sold, and advertisements bring revenue to the schools. It is even worse in high school because the athletes are "entitled" to the education they are getting, so there is nothing in return for what they give to the schools.

I know if employees pay taxes, so do employers. I am just saying there is much more to this than "full cost of attendance" and other things mentioned. You can't take a bite out of the apple without buying the whole thing, including the core.

It's really a moot point anyway. Each institution would negotiate separately, disregarding the obvious public/private issue. As soon as some kind of collective bargaining involving the NCAA moves into the picture, you will see the member institutions jump ship faster than even you can say collusion.

 

[onevol74]

Let them all unionize and treat them like employees. Then we can tax the compensation via payroll taxes, SS taxes, and Medicare taxes like everyone else that works has to pay. You can't just have the compensation without the responsibility to society.

Besides, we are going to need the extra money because government contract workers just got a raise to 10.10 per hour.

Here is a better idea, if you want a voice, make the NFL have a developmental league covered under the NFLPA.

Exactly, it would be time to take away their free ride.

 

[Kook]

I'm sorry, but if you cannot see that unionizing college sports would ruin them, then I simply cannot help you. you are probably the same people who think fast food workers should make $15 per hour. Not all jobs are equal, not all pay offs are equal.

But you can ask those band nerds that get baby scholarships if they think it's fair that they don't get a full ride, but some freshman sitting on the sidelines of a football game does. Or the engineering wiz or math wiz. These football players get a pretty good deal in exchange for a playing football.

If they don't think it is a fair deal, pull their scholarship. Then they will figure out, paying for school isn't a fun thing to do.

 

[Vols520]

My heart is breaking for those poor athletes

Aren't you a cop? Pretty funny when police complain about benefits others receive.

Not as bad as fireman though.

 

[jp1]

And they also aren't getting a free education. They are working for it and getting paid far below their value.

When I was a resident I earned about 1/6th of what I do now and had the very same practicing license. It doesn't only happen in sports.