Mandatory Savings?

#27
#27
lawgator1 said:
I don't see how such a thing would ever pass here in the US of A.

On a related note, I'm aggravated by the way our 401k system is structured that really hurts small businesses. Plans where the total amount of vested savings are low relative to a larger business pay a higher load than others because of the managers. Seems to me we ought to be encouraging the exact opposite.

My firm, for example, we can't get access to simple ETFs or index funds because the fund managers' take is too low on those. Naturally, if you track the available funds over time they all fall short of the market index as a whole, and its truly whacked when you then take out the management fees.

I get that investing the dollars pre-tax and then taking them out at hopefully a lower rate than when making a fill income offsets that. But as is, it sure seems to me like the fund managers are the real winners in the 401k scheme, whereas the small businesses are the losers.
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Here's a thought.....with the record debt our country is running and continuing to increase at a very rapid pace.....would it be logical to consider using after tax dollars for investment purposes rather than pretax? You don't get saddled with all of the regulatory BS, such as mandatory withdrawals and etc. and who knows what the tax structure will look like when we reach retirement age.....whatever that age becomes.

We like to think we'll be in a lower tax bracket when that time comes, but with the debt out of control, shouldn't we at least look at our European brothers and the pile of tax rate crap they're in? Worth considering or not?
 
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#28
#28
volinbham said:
Adequate for what? In general people should save more.

Should the government mandate it?

Do you think Americans (on average) have an adequate diet?

Do you think Americans (on average) consume too much alcohol?

Should the government regulate all behaviors to save us from any potential negative consequences of our actions?
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I don't think the average person saves enough for retirement. It's all relative, but by 67 you should have saved about 8 x's your salary for retirement.

People tend to not think of how expensive and how long retirement can be.

Responsibility is the answer, not government.
 
#29
#29
Carl Pickens said:
Here's a thought.....with the record debt our country is running and continuing to increase at a very rapid pace.....would it be logical to consider using after tax dollars for investment purposes rather than pretax? You don't get saddled with all of the regulatory BS, such as mandatory withdrawals and etc. and who knows what the tax structure will look like when we reach retirement age.....whatever that age becomes.

We like to think we'll be in a lower tax bracket when that time comes, but with the debt out of control, shouldn't we at least look at our European brothers and the pile of tax rate crap they're in? Worth considering or not?
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Totally worth considering, and the sole reason that I'm looking to open a Roth IRA to supplement my 401k. I only use it for the employer match.

We may all be in a lower tax bracket come retirement, but that doesn't do any good if taxes go up 25% overall in 35 years.
 
#30
#30
Carl Pickens said:
Here's a thought.....with the record debt our country is running and continuing to increase at a very rapid pace.....would it be logical to consider using after tax dollars for investment purposes rather than pretax? You don't get saddled with all of the regulatory BS, such as mandatory withdrawals and etc. and who knows what the tax structure will look like when we reach retirement age.....whatever that age becomes.

We like to think we'll be in a lower tax bracket when that time comes, but with the debt out of control, shouldn't we at least look at our European brothers and the pile of tax rate crap they're in? Worth considering or not?
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I agree and have done this. But be careful! There are some who would now change from an income tax to something they call a "fair tax" that would then tax your/my after tax retirement retirement savings at 30+ per cent when we spend our after tax dollars. "Fair" indeed.
 
#31
#31
Thrasher865 said:
Totally worth considering, and the sole reason that I'm looking to open a Roth IRA to supplement my 401k. I only use it for the employer match.

We may all be in a lower tax bracket come retirement, but that doesn't do any good if taxes go up 25% overall in 35 years.
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Roths are great.
 
#32
#32
Medicare, Social Security and...."mandatory savings". What do they all have in common? This would be one more pot of money from which Congress could just help themselves for discretionary spending. To date, Congress has not paid back one red cent of principal that it wrote I.O.U.'s for out of the Medicare and Social Security trust funds, thus they're are quickly going insolvent. This is the second salvo fired testing the waters to set up new and not so subtle ways to confiscate taxpayer savings since there was a semi public firestorm over the proposal to confiscate 401k's and IRA's and put those funds into a "Guaranteed Retirement Account" in the first year or so of the Obama presidency. It was the brainchild of Theresa Gillarducci, professor of Economics, that was interviewed by Congress concerning this proposal. Later she recanted and said she/they never proposed confiscation of 401k's and IRA's which was false.
 
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#33
#33
Velo Vol said:
I don't know
No
Yes
No

The fact that he may be proposing a poor solution does not mean he is not addressing a real problem.
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There's a lot of other real problems that need addressed first. Until all welfare is abolished where people bleed a system dry that they never contributed to its hard to mandate anyone be forced to have a mandatory savings.
 
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#35
#35
Danl said:
I agree and have done this. But be careful! There are some who would now change from an income tax to something they call a "fair tax" that would then tax your/my after tax retirement retirement savings at 30+ per cent when we spend our after tax dollars. "Fair" indeed.
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You obviously know nothing about the fair tax.
 
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#43
#43
Gramps said:
Nah but I have saw a couple of whites pay with food stamps and load them in an Escalade.

I drive an old cheap Toyota. :)
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They could have bought them off somebody else for fifty cents on the dollar. That shiite goes on all the time .
 
#44
#44
Gramps said:
Nah but I have saw a couple of whites pay with food stamps and load them in an Escalade.

I drive an old cheap Toyota. :)
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"I owe my soul to the company store". The democrat party is the modern day company store. You draw flickers or scrip that you can only spend if you vote to keep the demos in office.
 
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#45
#45
govols/cc said:
Are you saying blacks would drive a $75k car instead of save? Some do that on food stamps & welfare.
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1) Amazing you got race out of that post.

2) Idk what kind of black people you see on a daily basis. Most black people around here prefer to drive old caddies (or other old big sedans) with rims worth more anywhere between two and six times the car itself. And yes, some of them use welfare/food stamps.
 
#46
#46
FLVOL69 said:
They could have bought them off somebody else for fifty cents on the dollar. That shiite goes on all the time .
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True story. I have a relative that is a POS druggie around 40 years old that naturally is living off the government, will not strike a lick at anything. He called a couple of weeks ago trying to sell me $120 in food stamps for $50. I said no. Three days later he called wanting to borrow some money to buy a few groceries. I just hung up on him.
 
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#47
#47
Gramps said:
True story. I have a relative that is a POS druggie around 40 years old that naturally is living off the government, will not strike a lick at anything. He called a couple of weeks ago trying to sell me $120 in food stamps for $50. I said no. Three days later he called wanting to borrow some money to buy a few groceries. I just hung up on him.
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Good, you did the right thing. Abuse and fraud is not exclusive to the black race.
 
#48
#48
Gramps said:
True story. I have a relative that is a POS druggie around 40 years old that naturally is living off the government, will not strike a lick at anything. He called a couple of weeks ago trying to sell me $120 in food stamps for $50. I said no. Three days later he called wanting to borrow some money to buy a few groceries. I just hung up on him.
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Stopped reading......
 
#49
#49
82_VOL_83 said:
You obviously know nothing about the fair tax.
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Where's the misunderstanding? You take your savings that have been taxed by the current income tax and put them away. Then, if you bring them out after the Fair Tax has been enacted, you are getting double-taxed when you spend those retirement savings.

Fair Tax isn't a terrible idea, but it needs some serious work. I'm not educated on 100% of the details. Is there a potential plan for dealing with this particular issue?
 
#50
#50
I still wonder when retirement became a right. Once I accumulate enough to stop working I'll do it but until then I'll just keep going into the office.

The idea we need to use more govt to protect people from their own idiocy is an amazing concept. I'm more than happy to take care of myself if the govt will allow it
 
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