ISIS Takes Control of Mosul

#51
#51
MG1968 said:
This is why it was a mistake for the US to announce to the world when we would leave.
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Never understood that either. It's like a bank advertising when the vault will be open and the guards will be at lunch.

Someone will bide their time and strike.
 
#52
#52
MG1968 said:
This is why it was a mistake for the US to announce to the world when we would leave.
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That's debatable. These insurgents were still going to be there regardless.

I think the biggest issue with this though is that the American public was getting antsy and wanting a definitive deadline and definitive results. In a way, we're also complicit.
 
#53
#53
volprof said:
These insurgents were still going to be there regardless.
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Probably.

So does this follow?

volprof said:
The most disastrous, catastrophic US foreign policy decision since at least Vietnam (and long-term, it may prove even worse) was the decision to go to war in Iraq.
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Disastrous for whom? You seem to be blaming the extremist surge now on that the 2003 war.
 
#59
#59
Grand Vol said:
Iraq is a majority Shi'a country. I find it extremely hard to believe the Iranians are completely in the dark here.
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Me too but if the Iraqi Security Forces continue to fold like they are, I could see Iran calling for "volunteers" to defend fellow Shi'a Muslims from these "Sunni terrorists".
 
#62
#62
Velo Vol said:
Probably.

So does this follow?



Disastrous for whom? You seem to be blaming the extremist surge now on that the 2003 war.
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I'm not sure I copy, Lt. Dan. Disastrous for us and common Iraqis. Disastrous for Saddam and the Ba'athist. Great for Islamic fundamentalists though. I'm not sure if this answers your question, however.
 
#63
#63
I wonder if this would be happening this way if our Administration and Nouri al-Maliki could have gotten a status of forces agreement done?
 
#64
#64
volprof said:
I'm not sure I copy, Lt. Dan. Disastrous for us and common Iraqis. Disastrous for Saddam and the Ba'athist. Great for Islamic fundamentalists though. I'm not sure if this answers your question, however.
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What I'm saying is yes, the 2003 war toppled the existing balance of power in Iraq and made conditions ripe for this to happen.

However, could Iraq not have fallen under its own weight eventually, absent the U.S. invasion?

I'm suggesting there could have been alternative pathways to this outcome.
 
#65
#65
Velo Vol said:
What I'm saying is yes, the 2003 war toppled the existing balance of power in Iraq and made conditions ripe for this to happen.

However, could Iraq not have fallen under its own weight eventually, absent the U.S. invasion?

I'm suggesting there could have been alternative pathways to this outcome.
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A huge chunk of the Mid East is a dumpster fire right now. I've come to the conclusion those people have to be controlled by strong men, kings ext otherwise they will just tear themselves apart.
 
#66
#66
hog88 said:
A huge chunk of the Mid East is a dumpster fire right now. I've come to the conclusion those people have to be controlled by strong men, kings ext otherwise they will just tear themselves apart.
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That's largely what Saddam was doing . . . until we hanged him.
 
#67
#67
Velo Vol said:
What I'm saying is yes, the 2003 war toppled the existing balance of power in Iraq and made conditions ripe for this to happen.

However, could Iraq not have fallen under its own weight eventually, absent the U.S. invasion?

I'm suggesting there could have been alternative pathways to this outcome.
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Anything's possible, but Iraq seemed pretty stable internally before the war. Perhaps the leader after Saddam wouldn't have been as effective at keeping the Islamists at bay, but that's all speculation. However you wish to slice it, we precipitated the Islamist "revolution" in Iraq.
 
#68
#68
I know we went into Iraq to remove Saddam but the biggest military/political blunder was the de-Ba'athification policy of the coalition and the disbanding of the Iraqi security apparatus. At the time we instantly added fuel to the fire when we put thousands of ex-soldiers and such on the streets without jobs or pensions.
 
#69
#69
After further reflection, the biggest foreign policy blunder where Iraq is concerned is the decision made by George H.W. Bush to turn his back on the Iraqi Kurds after Desert Storm.
 
#71
#71
The whole region is a big ****e sandwich. The country should have never existed in the first place but those kooky europeans had to draw their lines where it does not belong.

I think the Iraq government should utilize the Kurds as a group. Grant them more autonomy and a bigger share in the central government. Recognize northern Iraq as Kurdistan. Once this is done they can utilze Kurdish militias and the PKK to pacify the area.
 
#73
#73
#75
#75
so how fast will Baghdad fall? July 4th? Labor day? They are only a 100 miles or so and they have $450 Million in cash, abandoned armored vehicles and now a 300K BPD refinery
 
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