Irwin: Guarantano throws a prettier ball than Manning, but doesn't have the intangibles

[GAVol]

JG has his problems. Exactly what they are? I dont really know and neither do any of us fans. Some will pretend to know but they dont. One thing I do know is we are not at practice and see what the coaches see.

That's my position as well. KC looks very serviceable, but obviously the coaches think JG give us a better chance. I don't really care who plays. I'll pull for either guy and have no need to prove that I can evaluate QB talent in my spare time.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Because he is the starter? That doesn’t just make him magically read defenses though. Although he did make good throws in the Auburn game he was statuesque in doing so. (Which is the reason he got hit so much)

Hmm, so it seems that you and some others claim the ability to read a defense would give us a better chance of winning right? And that Chryst possesses that ability right?

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

That's my position as well. KC looks very serviceable, but obviously the coaches think JG give us a better chance. I don't really care who plays. I'll pull for either guy and have no need to prove that I can evaluate QB talent in my spare time.

I completely agree. If Chryst is the guy, then fine with me. And I think we need to see him start and play the entire game to see that. I would let him play against SC and UK. Because it could be he is the better QB. Although it seems a little odd that if he can read defenses so much better than JG, why he wouldnt have been the starter this whole time.

 

[cHiZzLeVOL]

Hmm, so it seems that you and some others claim the ability to read a defense would give us a better chance of winning right? And that Chryst possesses that ability right?

The ability of Chryst to read a defense and his quick release give us a better chance of scoring, yes. It makes defenses honest.

Winning is based on the whole team.

 

[majic73]

2 Things that Guarantano cannot seem to overcome:
1. Holding the ball too long
2. Sensing oncoming pressure mainly cause he still tends to stair down WR's.
Our receivers are really good! Get the ball in the air and let THEM make a play!!

JMO


.

He doesn't sense pressure because he has no idea what the defense is doing pre-snap. I posted Sunday about the weak side blitz referenced in the article. A decent QB ( not talking Manning or Brady here ) would check an obvious blitz up . He would go hot right at the player vacated by the blitz. That's why it is rare that a coach will attack QBs like Manning with the blitz. I have seen an obvious interior blitz , and JG stays in the A gap run . You have to check out of that . He has improved a lot , but has a lot more to go

 

[volfannbama]

He read Auburns fine.

Are you suggesting he doesnt have a problem reading defenses?

 

[LivinginthePast]

Peyton is GOAT in UT history.

 

[MikeVol44]

It is absolutely unfair to even mention any UT QB next to Peyton Manning. QBs like Manning come along very rarely. Manning had much better passing skills than any UT QB in modern memory. But he also had better coaching and much, much better teams around him.

JG has his problems. Exactly what they are? I dont really know and neither do any of us fans. Some will pretend to know but they dont. One thing I do know is we are not at practice and see what the coaches see.

I think you missed a few things from the article. Tim Irwin is NOT a typical fan. He was an All SEC football player who played 14 seasons in the NFL in which he started and/or played in 201 games. He's watched more film than the rest of us combined. He's had to listen to QBs in college and then NFL QBs recognize defenses and call pass protections in real time as an OL. What he observes matters. And he offered his experienced and educated opinion in an objective manner.

I'll roll with his opinion.

And just for the record--throwing up those 50/50 balls against Auburn did NOT require any pre-snap reads. He knew where he was going to throw the ball when they broke the huddle.

I admire the heck out of JG for his toughness. But as Tim Irwin said--he throws a very pretty spiral, but--at this point in his career--lacks most of the intangibles necessary to be a good SEC QB.

 

[mccrackb]

How long should a QB be given to develop? Especially now a days when kids are coming straight out of high school and lighting it up. Not trying to dog JG just wondering.

4 years. Have you not seen his deep ball?

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Are you suggesting he doesnt have a problem reading defenses?

I am saying that neither I, you nor anyone else on this message board are as qualified as the coaching staff. Point is, if Chryst is so much better at reading defenses, then why hasnt he beaten JG out for the starting job? So either the people on this message board know mire than the coaches or they see what the fans do not. Now, if given the option, Occums razor suggests that the coaches know much more than any fan or sports writers know.

 

[MikeVol44]

Now, if given the option, Occums razor suggests that the coaches know much more than any fan or sports writers know.

Uh, if you're going to go all philosophical to prove how intellectual you can be--you might want to spell Occam's razor correctly.....just sayin'.....

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Uh, if you're going to go all philosophical to prove how intellectual you can be--you might want to spell Occam's razor correctly.....just sayin'.....

Sorry grammar screw up. My statements still stand.

 

[volfannbama]

I am saying that neither I, you nor anyone else on this message board are as qualified as the coaching staff. Point is, if Chryst is so much better at reading defenses, then why hasnt he beaten JG out for the starting job? So either the people on this message board know mire than the coaches or they see what the fans do not. Now, if given the option, Occums razor suggests that the coaches know much more than any fan or sports writers know.

There are folks that analyze film and they know a tremendous amount about football as most them either played or get paid to talk about football. They all say the same thing. Not only do they say it, but they break down film and produce evidence of such things..
Anyone who knows anything about football can point of some things wrong with a team or former player. Those same people, myself included dont know enough about the game to correct the deficiencies to produce quality players. That is the difference between coaches and ordinary people.

JG misses blatant blitzes on a regular basis. That's what the fbi calls a clue. So he either likes being hit/sacked or he cant read a defense. Ill go with the latter. Would I know how to even start to fix that issue? Not really, which is why im sitting work on a 3rd shift job and not making millions as a football coach. But dont blame me if you cant make an educated guess on what an issue might be when you are watching a game.

Its kind of like shooting. I can look at a target and pretty much tell you what you are doing wrong, after you have been taught fundamentals, based solely on where the bullets are impacting. Good coaches can correct those issues and then some just tell you whats wrong.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

There are folks that analyze film and they know a tremendous amount about football as most them either played or get paid to talk about football. They all say the same thing. Not only do they say it, but they break down film and produce evidence of such things..
Anyone who knows anything about football can point of some things wrong with a team or former player. Those same people, myself included dont know enough about the game to correct the deficiencies to produce quality players. That is the difference between coaches and ordinary people.

JG misses blatant blitzes on a regular basis. That's what the fbi calls a clue. So he either likes being hit/sacked or he cant read a defense. Ill go with the latter. Would I know how to even start to fix that issue? Not really, which is why im sitting work on a 3rd shift job and not making millions as a football coach. But dont blame me if you cant make an educated guess on what an issue might be when you are watching a game.

Its kind of like shooting. I can look at a target and pretty much tell you what you are doing wrong, after you have been taught fundamentals, based solely on where the bullets are impacting. Good coaches can correct those issues and then some just tell you whats wrong.

So in short, just like I said. Nobody on this message board knows. Keep on believeing they do though if it helps you. I will defer to the coaches. If they say Chryst is the guy, then I am 100% behind him. But as I said, seems strange that they cannot recognize the seemingly glaring deficiencies that you and some others say JG has. And I am not blaming anyone. I am just saying you dont know what you are talking about. So we shall see what happens.

I for one want to see what KC can do for a whole game or 2. I think we need to see it. He was a highly rated recruit who has had almost 4 years of stellar coaching. Yet for some reason, he couldnt beat out a guy who cannot read a simple defense. Now, lets see this guy play an entire game. He may be the answer to our offense. Who knows?

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

The ability of Chryst to read a defense and his quick release give us a better chance of scoring, yes. It makes defenses honest.

Winning is based on the whole team.

So why has he not been able to win the starting job? Pruitt clearly says whoever plays better will start. So whats the problem?

 

[volfannbama]

So in short, just like I said. Nobody on this message board knows. Keep on believeing they do though if it helps you. I will defer to the coaches. If they say Chryst is the guy, then I am 100% behind him. But as I said, seems strange that they cannot recognize the seemingly glaring deficiencies that you and some others say JG has. And I am not blaming anyone. I am just saying you dont know what you are talking about. So we shall see what happens.

I for one want to see what KC can do for a whole game or 2. I think we need to see it. He was a highly rated recruit who has had almost 4 years of stellar coaching. Yet for some reason, he couldnt beat out a guy who cannot read a simple defense. Now, lets see this guy play an entire game. He may be the answer to our offense. Who knows?

Then why be on a message board? Why dont we just post what the coaches say, then we can all hop on, say we agree and be done with it?

 

[volfannbama]

So why has he not been able to win the starting job? Pruitt clearly says whoever plays better will start. So whats the problem?

My guess is longevity, KC is gone next year.CJP knows he has a free year cause fans are gonna buy this no talent excuse for a year. Its kinda like what CBJ tried to do with Dobbs. He knew his best option was on the bench but he tried to RS to save him for last year. CJP knows he needs a qb with experience the next two years.

 

[Volsfaninva917]

Thank you for displaying your vast knowledge of football. Putting back shoulder in parentheses as if we just made it up.

Because, hes throwing up 50/50 balls

Those balls are thrown that way by design. Callaway and Jennings aren't going to run Go routes and outrun the secondary. The point is to hang the ball in the air and let them be physical and go get it.

Known as 50/50 balls

 

[DiderotsGhost]

Thanks, Freak.

Guarantano's liabilities were the same as Josh Dobbs' liabilities....

One of the most frustrating things for me watching Dobbs --when considering his intelligence--was that he NEVER appeared to be able to pick up blitzes and get us out of plays. I don't know if he was not allowed to audible out of the play or not....but he definitely never appeared to do what Irwin says is JG's greatest liability, too.

It's just baffling....

Not that baffling. They were coached by the same group of coaches. Our previous coaching staff was terrible with QBs. And you're right ... Dobbs had the same issues.

JG has improved immensely this year. This staff has done a much better job of teaching and developing him, but it's going to take time. He's much better now than he was back in January, though.

I'd point to Carson Palmer as a good example of how a change in coaching staff can work miracles on a QB. Palmer was widely considered a "bust" when Pete Carroll took over USC. Within 2 years, he won the Heisman. Not saying JG will win the Heisman, but he has the tools to be a great QB. Like Carson Palmer, JG just had poor coaching early on.

 

[FLVOL_79]

How many hits did Chryst take Saturday?

I believe the homer answer is "Alabama adjusted their defense". ..

 

[Woke]

I think you missed a few things from the article. Tim Irwin is NOT a typical fan. He was an All SEC football player who played 14 seasons in the NFL in which he started and/or played in 201 games. He's watched more film than the rest of us combined. He's had to listen to QBs in college and then NFL QBs recognize defenses and call pass protections in real time as an OL. What he observes matters. And he offered his experienced and educated opinion in an objective manner.

I'll roll with his opinion.

And just for the record--throwing up those 50/50 balls against Auburn did NOT require any pre-snap reads. He knew where he was going to throw the ball when they broke the huddle.

I admire the heck out of JG for his toughness. But as Tim Irwin said--he throws a very pretty spiral, but--at this point in his career--lacks most of the intangibles necessary to be a good SEC QB.

This

 

[Volsfaninva917]

I believe the homer answer is "Alabama adjusted their defense". ..

lol right

 

[imbubbaspitcup]

He's been hit too many times with a guy coming free. That's not all on the Oline. That's why when Chryst came in it looked different. Thing is there is something about Chryst they don't like. Probably lack of a deep ball that has kept him sidelined.

Alabama was not bringing the house when Chryst came into the game. Go back and watch the tape. After that nasty targeting hit on JG that was not called, Bama called off the dogs for the most part. Chryst had about 3 seconds or more to throw the ball, JD didn't. The Vols even caused Bama to have a couple of 3 & outs when they put a little pressure on Tua, his passes started sailing.
It's a different ball game when you don't even have 2 seconds to throw. I was sad for JG but happy for Chryst, so let Chryst start & rest JG.

 

[BeecherVol]

Thanks, Freak.

Guarantano's liabilities were the same as Josh Dobbs' liabilities....

One of the most frustrating things for me watching Dobbs --when considering his intelligence--was that he NEVER appeared to be able to pick up blitzes and get us out of plays. I don't know if he was not allowed to audible out of the play or not....but he definitely never appeared to do what Irwin says is JG's greatest liability, too.

It's just baffling....

He struggled with that some as well.

Dobbs covered his up pretty well with a strength that JG doesnt have.

 

[Evergrenevol]

It is absolutely unfair to even mention any UT QB next to Peyton Manning. QBs like Manning come along very rarely. Manning had much better passing skills than any UT QB in modern memory. But he also had better coaching and much, much better teams around him.

JG has his problems. Exactly what they are? I dont really know and neither do any of us fans. Some will pretend to know but they dont. One thing I do know is we are not at practice and see what the coaches see.

You’re assumptions about others not knowing what issues our QB has are incorrect. The OP post is exactly right.

All of last year and this year, JG has proven that he just can’t read defenses. Part of the problem this year is the offensive coordinator. It’s his job to teach a player how to read and check. If a QB misses the read, then the OC should signal in the check. This hasn’t happened.

Alabama’s defense was Pruitt’s last year. He even said in a press conference that he was reading their defensive signals on most plays. HE KNEW WHAT WAS COMING, yet nothing was signaled in to the QB.

Many of the sacks and pressures were the OL’s fault. Watching linemen not knowing who to block is frustrating as hell. They also just got whipped on many occasions.

JG has some arm talent. He’s played well at times, but he’s not a great athlete.
- JG can’t read what the defense is doing, and his OC isn’t helping.
- He doesn’t see or feel blitzes or pressure coming. Even if he did, he’s not mobile enough to escape, He’s not good throwing on the run.
- His read and release time is sometimes slow. In some ways that’s good, he throws few interceptions.
- Perhaps his biggest weakness is his inability to sense and escape pressure to make a play.

When Chryst came in, there was a different (positive) energy in the huddle. As usual...., when Chryst comes in, he throws touchdown passes.

Start Chryst and see what happens. It can’t be worse than what we’ve done in the 1st qtr. to date! Play who has the hot hand.