I'm not the biggest fan of Brady but

#51
#51
Ulysees E. McGill said:
Montana didn't have to be "clutch"..except for that one all time greatest clutch performance against Dallas, but he was pretty much just excellent all the time. They just straight blew people out.
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Are you serious???

Have you truly forgotten the "John Candy" drive against the Bengals of 85+ yards to win the Super Bowl????
 
#52
#52
VolsSportsFan said:
It's such a small sample size, it really means nothing of substance. It keeps being said like it's some common occurance, and you have 2 scenarios it happened.

It's also funny how the narrative is shaped to fit whatever point trying to be made. People keep saying Cassel looked awesome, but then say he sucked when he left NE and completely downplay that he started for the Chiefs for 4 years, lead them to the playoffs, and made the Pro Bowl. That constantly is downplayed.

And Jacoby Brisset didn't look anything like an all-pro. He was terrible.
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You have as much of a sample size as you will ever have with any of the greats. How has New Orleans played when Bress misses a game? Did Indy win 11 when Manning got hurt? They won the Andrew Luck lottery and still can't find their way. Montana was pushed out of San Fran toward the end of his career by another HOFer in his prime. 20 games is as sufficient of a sample as you could ask for at this point. Brady is one of the greats, but I think Brees, Manning, Elway, Unitas, or Montana would all be similarly successful in that system in today's NFL.

Would Cassel have won 11 in Indy or NO if the roles were changed? Maybe. Maybe not.

Way to move the goalposts on the last one. You said both qbs this year didn’t look great. Garoppolo had a better passer rating in his action, albeit limited, than Brady. Brisset is terrible, but he still played .500 ball with the Patriots.
 
#54
#54
TheColdVolTruth said:
You have as much of a sample size as you will ever have with any of the greats. How has New Orleans played when Bress misses a game? Did Indy win 11 when Manning got hurt? They won the Andrew Luck lottery and still can't find their way. Montana was pushed out of San Fran toward the end of his career by another HOFer in his prime. 20 games is as sufficient of a sample as you could ask for at this point. Brady is one of the greats, but I think Brees, Manning, Elway, Unitas, or Montana would all be similarly successful in that system in today's NFL.

Would Cassel have won 11 in Indy or NO if the roles were changed? Maybe. Maybe not.

Way to move the goalposts on the last one. You said both qbs this year didn’t look great. Garoppolo had a better passer rating in his action, albeit limited, than Brady. Brisset is terrible, but he still played .500 ball with the Patriots.
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He played .500 ball? Or the team won despite him? They lost to the freakin' Bills dude, and he looked terrible and his other win was the Texans, universally regarded as the worst team to make the playoffs and he had little to do with that win. As I said, they hardly played murderer's row those 4 games.

And me move the goalposts? That's all you guys do every time you try to discredit Brady. Would Cassel have won 11 in Indy? I bet they would have won more than 2 games. All 3 of the QBs that played that year for Indy sucked 100 times more than Cassel. A washed up has been in Kerry Collins and 2 guys that haven't come close to starting anywhere else and one that only made a roster one more year after that.

And you can get past the fact that in 2008, they didn't make the playoffs. If Brady QBs that team, they probably do.
 
#55
#55
VolsSportsFan said:
He played .500 ball? Or the team won despite him? They lost to the freakin' Bills dude, and he looked terrible and his other win was the Texans, universally regarded as the worst team to make the playoffs and he had little to do with that win. As I said, they hardly played murderer's row those 4 games.

And me move the goalposts? That's all you guys do every time you try to discredit Brady. Would Cassel have won 11 in Indy? I bet they would have won more than 2 games. All 3 of the QBs that played that year for Indy sucked 100 times more than Cassel. A washed up has been in Kerry Collins and 2 guys that haven't come close to starting anywhere else and one that only made a roster one more year after that.

And you can get past the fact that in 2008, they didn't make the playoffs. If Brady QBs that team, they probably do.
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Here is where you first put the goalposts...

VolsSportsFan said:
And BOTH their QBs this year that played while he was out didn't look awesome.
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And here is where you moved them to...

VolsSportsFan said:
Jacoby Brisset didn't look anything like an all-pro. He was terrible.
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Now when you address me as belonging to the group of "you guys" who "discredit Brady," are you referencing my statement here...

TheColdVolTruth said:
Brady is one of the greatest qbs in NFL history
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Or here...

TheColdVolTruth said:
Brady is one of the greats
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Because if you think that is discrediting Brady at all, well, I'm sorry, Gisele. I never meant to impugn your man's honor.

If the Pats win one more game in 2008, they would have made the playoffs. Is the criteria to be the hands down, undisputed, clear cut, better than every other great qb in history as simple as winning one, two, or three more games than the team won with Cassel. Maybe. Maybe not. That's up for debate.
 
#57
#57
TheColdVolTruth said:
Here is where you first put the goalposts...



And here is where you moved them to...



Now when you address me as belonging to the group of "you guys" who "discredit Brady," are you referencing my statement here...



Or here...



Because if you think that is discrediting Brady at all, well, I'm sorry, Gisele. I never meant to impugn your man's honor.

If the Pats win one more game in 2008, they would have made the playoffs. Is the criteria to be the hands down, undisputed, clear cut, better than every other great qb in history as simple as winning one, two, or three more games than the team won with Cassel. Maybe. Maybe not. That's up for debate.
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If and buts.
 
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#58
#58
You know East Tennessee's favorite jock sniffer Chesney is really struggling with this argument.
 
#60
#60
Tom Brady is great...top 10 all time...but all this GOAT talk is just silly. If I'm making an all-time team, no way is he my QB.
 
#65
#65
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#70
#70
1. Brady
2. Manning
3. Montana

IMO. Other than those two, I don't see anyone else that has even a slightly reasonable argument to be ahead of Brady.
 
#71
#71
NashVol11 said:
1. Brady
2. Manning
3. Montana

IMO. Other than those two, I don't see anyone else that has even a slightly reasonable argument to be ahead of Brady.
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Joe Theisman obviously. I mean dude wore a kicker's facemask.

Case closed.
 
#72
#72
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