Hope Butch incorporates some pro elements...

#127
#127
Vol8188 said:
You're right, and everyone I mentioned won at historical levels with a pass first philosophy. And ByU didn't just win the WAC, they won a NC. So idk how you can discredit them.
Click to expand...

Because they never won consistently at a high level. They played an easy schedule and were ranked highly every year only to lose when they had to play against a good team in a bowl. But yeah, I'll give you one year.
 
#129
#129
ntxVOL said:
Because they never won consistently at a high level. They played an easy schedule and were ranked highly every year only to lose when they had to play against a good team in a bowl. But yeah, I'll give you one year.
Click to expand...

They played the same teams they played against before, when they were trying to run the ball and couldn't win a game.
 
#130
#130
Vol8188 said:
The original debate was about draft stock, so it's relevant when you try to claim these offenses hurt a kids draft stock.

And I wouldn't consider Alex Smith a bust. He's been a starter for what, a decade now?
Click to expand...

RG III, Manziel, and Tebow are busts.

Alex Smith was drafted 10yrs ago so I guess he has been in a spread ever since?
 
#131
#131
Maybe you should ask Bryce Petty if he feels RG III's bust had any effect on his draft stock.
 
#132
#132
ntxVOL said:
Maybe you should ask Bryce Petty if he feels RG III's bust had any effect on his draft stock.
Click to expand...

I'll ask the dude at the car wash...he played in a pro style offense in college. :)
 
#133
#133
ntxVOL said:
RG III, Manziel, and Tebow are busts.

Alex Smith was drafted 10yrs ago so I guess he has been in a spread ever since?
Click to expand...

1 year and he's a bust? That's kinda early.

And no he's not, but he is a mobile qb and did play in a spread offense in college. So let's not try to move the target again.
 
#134
#134
Vol8188 said:
1 year and he's a bust? That's kinda early.

And no he's not, but he is a mobile qb and did play in a spread offense in college. So let's not try to move the target again.
Click to expand...

You keep hitting the damn thing! He ain't got but the one! :scare:
 
#135
#135
ntxVOL said:
Maybe you should ask Bryce Petty if he feels RG III's bust had any effect on his draft stock.
Click to expand...

You realize that very few qbs go in the first round, right? Petty didn't go in the first round because he didn't win a Heisman trophy and run a 4.4 forty like RG III. So let's not try to pretend like they were in any way equal.
 
#136
#136
I think there is more to bringing in Debord than a yes man who will do whatever Butch wants.
You couldn't watch last year's team and see that there were some fundamental problems protecting QBs, experience or not.
I think Butch realizes you can't sustain winning in this league if you are overly dependent on a mobile QB.
 
#138
#138
I'm kind of hoping for some "I" formation myself with Hurd at FB (Bryson anyone), and Kamara at tailback! Or maybe KMac and Tuttle as FBs with a direct snap to Hurd/Kamara/Dobbs!
 
#140
#140
We don't run a 'zone read' offense . You see zone read 4-6 times a game . The concepts are there ...but not much
-
We run a decidedly pro-style gap scheme.
-
Our passing game is a layered west coast tree
-
Our running game is based on dive concepts ...which is pro all the way .
 
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#141
#141
majic73 said:
We don't run a 'zone read' offense . You see zone read 4-6 times a game . The concepts are there ...but not much
-
We run a decidedly pro-style gap scheme.
-
Our passing game is a layered west coast tree
-
Our running game is based on dive concepts ...which is pro all the way .
Click to expand...

Don't bring facts into this thread
 
#142
#142
Thrasher865 said:
We should rotate our QB's. Each one gets a snap and then hands off the reins to the next. That way they can all showcase their talent to the NFL scouts equally.

Also, none of our best players should play more than 10 snaps a game so that they can make it to draft day without significant injury.

Just win football games. Man, this is a dumb notion for a thread. Mariota isn't upset that the spread offense hurt his draft stock.
Click to expand...
Nobody said anything about focusing on losing. Of course we want to win. But my point was there is indeed a very strong bias in NFL circles against spread offense QB's.

I'll give you some local examples. ESPN's local beat writer for the Titans, Paul Kuharsky. The Tennessean's sports writers all tend to stuck on this old school, pro-style offense schtick. They campaigned consistently for Mettenberger to get another chance (he went 0-6 last year as a statue in the pocket), and go for a trade of the No.2 pick in the 1st Rd.

If you follow the draft, that is all year, for months...."he's a spread offense QB and his experience doesn't translate to the NFL very well....he'll have to sit for 2-3yrs and develop." Mariota was the lone exception...and part of that was because Oregon actually does mix in some pro-style concepts into their offense.

Mariota has to read the defense and shift his protections, set his receivers, and post snap, he cycles through his progressions. And the WR's run NFL route trees. Titan's HC, Whisenhunt said he was surprised to find this out, only after holding a private workout with Mariota at his Pro Day.

That means there is a real and negative stigma in the NFL towards QB's who come out of zone read offenses. You blow it off as a stupid topic....well, it wasn't stupid to Bryce Petty or Brett Hundley. They fell 2-3rds largely because of this negative perception.

If Bryce Petty had some experience in an offense that translated well into the NFL, he would have been a mid to late 1st Rd pick rather than a 4th Rd pick. HUGE difference in salary. It's not a dumb topic to him, right now. It matters.

I'm sure it matters to any an HS QB who follows the draft closely. They saw the bias. My contention is not a complete switch, but only to mix in some elements that can be used, from time to time...such as taking the snap under center in some short yardage/goal line situations.

Perhaps mix up the tempo, when we want to control the clock...especially when we play teams that have explosive offenses. We want our offense to eat up a lot of clock. So, why not slow it down and use the huddle at various points? The Patriots variate between the huddle and an up tempo scheme. David Cutcliffe ran both out of the huddle and a no-huddle, depending on the tempo he wanted to run.

Why not mix in a few plays from the I formation, and have our RB's running downhill, between the tackles. Maybe use a LB like Bryant or Bynum to come in as an FB/H-Back in those sets...just to throw the defense off from time to time? Coach Debo would know how to mix it up a little.
 
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#143
#143
majic73 said:
We don't run a 'zone read' offense . You see zone read 4-6 times a game . The concepts are there ...but not much
-
We run a decidedly pro-style gap scheme.
-
Our passing game is a layered west coast tree
-
Our running game is based on dive concepts ...which is pro all the way .
Click to expand...

Listen to this man, he knows his football.

Also, M, your thoughts on how DeBord will change things, if any?
 
#145
#145
VOLorNuttin said:
Nobody said anything about focusing on losing. Of course we want to win. But my point was there is indeed a very strong bias in NFL circles against spread offense QB's.

I'll give you some local examples. ESPN's local beat writer for the Titans, Paul Kuharsky. The Tennessean's sports writers all tend to stuck on this old school, pro-style offense schtick. They campaigned consistently for Mettenberger to get another chance (he went 0-6 last year as a statue in the pocket), and go for a trade of the No.2 pick in the 1st Rd.

If you follow the draft, that is all year, for months...."he's a spread offense QB and his experience doesn't translate to the NFL very well....he'll have to sit for 2-3yrs and develop." Mariota was the lone exception...and part of that was because Oregon actually does mix in some pro-style concepts into their offense.

Mariota has to read the defense and shift his protections, set his receivers, and post snap, he cycles through his progressions. And the WR's run NFL route trees. Titan's HC, Whisenhunt said he was surprised to find this out, only after holding a private workout with Mariota at his Pro Day.

That means there is a real and negative stigma in the NFL towards QB's who come out of zone read offenses. You blow it off as a stupid topic....well, it wasn't stupid to Bryce Petty or Brett Hundley. They fell 2-3rds largely because of this negative perception.

If Bryce Petty had some experience in an offense that translated well into the NFL, he would have been a mid to late 1st Rd pick rather than a 4th Rd pick. HUGE difference in salary. It's not a dumb topic to him, right now. It matters.

I'm sure it matters to any an HS QB who follows the draft closely. They saw the bias. My contention is not a complete switch, but only to mix in some elements that can be used, from time to time...such as taking the snap under center in some short yardage/goal line situations.

Perhaps mix up the tempo, when we want to control the clock...especially when we play teams that have explosive offenses. We want our offense to eat up a lot of clock. So, why not slow it down and use the huddle at various points? The Patriots variate between the huddle and an up tempo scheme. David Cutcliffe ran both out of the huddle and a no-huddle, depending on the tempo he wanted to run.

Why not mix in a few plays from the I formation, and have our RB's running downhill, between the tackles. Maybe use a LB like Bryant or Bynum to come in as an FB/H-Back in those sets...just to throw the defense off from time to time? Coach Debo would know how to mix it up a little.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't use beat writers as a source. Tony Dungy was on Cowherd yesterday and basically said media and draft experts get paid to give an opinion and it often doesn't reflect what a gm and coach are trying to do.

Hundley dropped because he makes poor decisions with the ball. Haven't watched a ton Petty but the little I remember his arm strength wasn't overly impressive. Fact is if you're smart with a strong arm it doesn't matter what offense you ran in college. You are going to go high in the draft.
 
#146
#146
majic73 said:
We don't run a 'zone read' offense . You see zone read 4-6 times a game . The concepts are there ...but not much
-
We run a decidedly pro-style gap scheme.
-
Our passing game is a layered west coast tree
-
Our running game is based on dive concepts ...which is pro all the way .
Click to expand...

Dive, isn't a gap scheme play. But I also don't consider running dive to be in anyway pro style. Dive is an option play (granted you tell the qb to give, but dive is still rooted in option football).

But honestly, if we are still calling dive plays and not giving Dobbs a chance to read a defender, our entire staff should be fired.
 
#147
#147
NashVOL93 said:
Listen to this man, he knows his football.

Also, M, your thoughts on how DeBord will change things, if any?
Click to expand...

Debord is an O line and TE purist . Butch's offense when running full tilt with decent blocking is all about power running and TE play . I would hope that our TEs have developed somewhat so his offense can develop. I dont think it is any coincidence that Butch hired a guy like Debord. Much of what Butch does is rooted in the Rich Rod spread concepts ....he is still a power run guy and Debord seems perfect for that . Hope he was a good hire !
 
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