Hope Butch incorporates some pro elements...

[TommyKnox]

It is not the coaching staff job to help increase players draft stock. They have to win football games, and their timeframe to do so is very limited. If they don't do what they have to do and get wins, they won't be around long enough to see what their quarterbacks are drafted at.

 

[Vol8188]

Yeah well I think things went off the tracks here and it is likely my fault.

As I originally was trying to argue my belief that these spread offenses need a dual threat QB to be successful at the highest level. I think this still holds true in CFB because there are no Mannings or Bradys there.

Because of that belief, I think it becomes problematic for CFB when those types of QBs don't fit the NFL mold.

Hawaii under June Jones.

Texas Tech under Mike Leach.

Oklahomas last NC.

Kentucky under Hal Mumme.

Baylor currently

And a number of other teams disagree with you, because they've all been extremely successful without having running qbs.

 

[ntxVOL]

Hawaii under June Jones.

Texas Tech under Mike Leach.

Oklahomas last NC.

Kentucky under Hal Mumme.

Baylor currently

And a number of other teams disagree with you, because they've all been extremely successful without having running qbs.

I'll give you OU but none of the others won at the highest level. Baylor would have been exposed badly if they had made into the CFP last season.

 

[Vol8188]

I'll give you OU but none of the others won at the highest level. Baylor would have been exposed badly if they had made into the CFP last season.

1 team out of over 100 teams a year wins the NC. You really think winning the NC at Hawaii or Kentucky is how one measures success?

 

[rickyyrs]

...into our offense, because these zone read offenses are KILLING the draft stock of some exceptional QB talents. And it makes it so hard for them to adapt to the NFL.

I was following the Titans' draft closely this year...hoping we'd pick Mariota. But there was so much debate about whether his experience in Oregon's spread offense would translate to the NFL. Even though his talent and football intelligence won the day, it still leaves questions in everyone's mind if the transition will be too difficult to make.

The reason this concerns me regarding our Vols, under Butch's offense, is even if Dobbs has a stellar season...helps us get to the SEC CG, is a Heisman candidate, etc...he will be viewed with the same level of skepticism, if not much worse.

Many NFL analysts felt Bryce Petty had the best arm in the draft, but was one of the worst draft candidates STRICTLY because of Art Briles system. The QB doesn't take any snaps under center, doesn't call any plays, doesn't make any pre-snap reads and goes through practically no progressions after the snap.

Basically, Briles holds the QB's hand so much that the QB doesn't have to do anything but take the snap and throw to his first read. With all that in mind, our offense doesn't seem a lot different. It's exciting for us fans, but it's a killer for a QB's draft prospects.

Don't these college coaches give a damn? I mean, if your QB falls deep into the draft, in the 4th -7th Rds ALL BECAUSE YOU HELD THEIR HANDS TOO MUCH, scheme-wise...that is also going to eventually kill your prospects of recruiting marquee HS QB's.

More and more of these QB's are going to see what happened with Brett Hundley, Bryce Petty and Nick Marshall and say "Uh, forget that, man...I'd rather play for a pro-style offense."

So, with that all said, I'm hoping Butch and Coach Debord takes this into account, and sprinkles in some NFL/Pro-Style concepts into our offense, so these QB's aren't rail-roaded on draft day. Maybe throw in some Power I formations in from time to time, just to throw the defense off a bit. Since Debo is used to this style of offense, perhaps this is what he meant by adding in a few wrinkles?

What say ye, merry gentlemen (let's not start throwing shat-bombs and keep it civil, OK)?

Post-draft Musings: Where are the QBs? Buried by college, that's where - CBSSports.com

Bruce Arians criticizes college's spread offenses - NFL.com

Urban Meyer does not have a pro style QB and he has 2 or 3 National Championships. Tebow had to go to QB school in Mufreesboro Tenn to learn how to plant his feet and throw the football.

 

[ntxVOL]

1 team out of over 100 teams a year wins the NC. You really think winning the NC at Hawaii or Kentucky is how one measures success?

No not necessarily but I remember:

Hawaii getting embarrassed in a bowl game against UGA.
Tech getting beat by Ole Miss in the Cotton Bowl after their best season ever under Leach.
Kentucky never won a bowl game under Hal Mumme.
Baylor imploded in the Cotton Bowl last year as well.

 

[Vol8188]

No not necessarily but I remember:

Hawaii getting embarrassed in a bowl game against UGA.
Tech getting beat by Ole Miss in the Cotton Bowl after their best season ever under Leach.
Kentucky never won a bowl game under Hal Mumme.
Baylor imploded in the Cotton Bowl last year as well.

Hawaii lost to Georgia, because they're Hawaii. Not because of their offense. They had no business winning as many games as they did.

Kentucky made back to back bowl games for the first ever! Thanks to Mummes pass first offense.

And dropping a game to Michigan State by 1 point isn't exactly horrible.

 

[ntxVOL]

Hawaii lost to Georgia, because they're Hawaii. Not because of their offense. They had no business winning as many games as they did.

Kentucky made back to back bowl games for the first ever! Thanks to Mummes pass first offense.

And dropping a game to Michigan State by 1 point isn't exactly horrible.

*Sigh*, gotta win at the highest level.

Hawaii only scored 10pts against UGA. They were 12-0 and people were questioning why they shouldn't get a shot at the championship.

Kentucky never scored more than 14 points in either bowl game under Hal Mumme.

Baylor plays in a crappy conference and crappy non-conference schedule as well. Briles makes no apologies for that either. Losing to Mich. St is not horrible but allowing 21 unanswered points in the 4th quarter is. Pass happy, couldn't move the ball or control the clock in the 4th quarter.

So, I would say these offenses have failed at the highest level. That is the problem IMO. Yeah you can rack up some amazing stats but it comes down to winning the big games on the big stage.

 

[Vol8188]

*Sigh*, gotta win at the highest level.

Hawaii only scored 10pts against UGA. They were 12-0 and people were questioning why they shouldn't get a shot at the championship.

Kentucky never scored more than 14 points in either bowl game under Hal Mumme.

Baylor plays in a crappy conference and crappy non-conference schedule as well. Briles makes no apologies for that either. Losing to Mich. St is not horrible but allowing 21 unanswered points in the 4th quarter is. Pass happy, couldn't move the ball or control the clock in the 4th quarter.

So, I would say these offenses have failed at the highest level. That is the problem IMO. Yeah you can rack up some amazing stats but it comes down to winning the big games on the big stage.

How many "high level" teams have implemented pass first offenses?

 

[Vol8188]

*Sigh*, gotta win at the highest level.

Hawaii only scored 10pts against UGA. They were 12-0 and people were questioning why they shouldn't get a shot at the championship.

Kentucky never scored more than 14 points in either bowl game under Hal Mumme.

Baylor plays in a crappy conference and crappy non-conference schedule as well. Briles makes no apologies for that either. Losing to Mich. St is not horrible but allowing 21 unanswered points in the 4th quarter is. Pass happy, couldn't move the ball or control the clock in the 4th quarter.

So, I would say these offenses have failed at the highest level. That is the problem IMO. Yeah you can rack up some amazing stats but it comes down to winning the big games on the big stage.

And what's your excuse for Florida under Spurrier winning with a pass first offense?

 

[Biopsyman]

15 of the last 16 super bowl winner are traditional drop back QB's...

 

[bUTchLookin4Dimez]

Gee, win football games at Tennessee or get drafted and make millions of dollars playing a game? I could care less if our draft streak we started this year equals our last one, just win. You win championships and your "draft stock" takes care of itself.

 

[Vol8188]

15 of the last 16 super bowl winner are traditional drop back QB's...

That seems like a pretty dumb way of looking at things, considering how few teams ran a spread offense 16 years ago.

Here's a better stat for you:

5 of the last 6 teams to play in the super bowl were spread offenses.

The only traditional offense being Baltimore.

 

[ntxVOL]

How many "high level" teams have implemented pass first offenses?

I dunno, BYU won quite a bit back in the day but against questionable competition IMO.

OU was for a while and are now going back to a more pass happy offense. They will likely stay somewhat balanced with the RBs they have though.

Spurrier was pretty pass happy at UF back in the 90's but they could grind it out with the best of them when they needed to.

A&M is trying it, they had some success with Manziel. They just hired Chavis as DC so we shall see how that works for them.

Oregon plays a pretty wide open game and they have fallen short several times.

I'm sure there are others.

I guess I don't see these pass happy spread teams dominating CFB. They will run into a team that has a solid D and can control the clock at some point.

Bama, FSU for pro-style...Urban Meyer teams at UF and OSU, and Auburn are more zone read type teams. Those are the types of teams that continue to win consistently and win at a high level.

Certainly the zone read with a dual threat QB is effective in CFB but I question whether long term QBs will want to play in those offenses.

 

[Biopsyman]

That seems like a pretty dumb way of looking at things, considering how few teams ran a spread offense 16 years ago.

Here's a better stat for you:

5 of the last 6 teams to play in the super bowl were spread offenses.

The only traditional offense being Baltimore.

Not really...
I trust what was said during the NFL DRAFT who were either former players or front off people who made the comment as having a little more knowledge than you

 

[Vol8188]

I dunno, BYU won quite a bit back in the day but against questionable competition IMO.

OU was for a while and are now going back to a more pass happy offense. They will likely stay somewhat balanced with the RBs they have though.

Spurrier was pretty pass happy at UF back in the 90's but they could grind it out with the best of them when they needed to.

A&M is trying it, they had some success with Manziel. They just hired Chavis as DC so we shall see how that works for them.

Oregon plays a pretty wide open game and they have fallen short several times.

I'm sure there are others.

I guess I don't see these pass happy spread teams dominating CFB. They will run into a team that has a solid D and can control the clock at some point.

Bama, FSU for pro-style...Urban Meyer teams at UF and OSU, and Auburn are more zone read type teams. Those are the types of teams that continue to win consistently and win at a high level.

Certainly the zone read with a dual threat QB is effective in CFB but I question whether long term QBs will want to play in those offenses.

Why wouldn't they?

 

[ntxVOL]

And what's your excuse for Florida under Spurrier winning with a pass first offense?

The other dynamic in CFB is talent and coaching.

UF had that in spades with Spurrier. It doesn't matter what kind of offense you run if you have those two things.

Hell if Barry Switzer could find QBs to run the wishbone he would still be at OU.

 

[ntxVOL]

Why wouldn't they?

Because there is no future in the NFL for a dual threat QB.

 

[Vol8188]

The other dynamic in CFB is talent and coaching.

UF had that in spades with Spurrier. It doesn't matter what kind of offense you run if you have those two things.

Hell if Barry Switzer could find QBs to run the wishbone he would still be at OU.

So when teams without talent (Hawaii, Kentucky) have unprecedented seasons throwing the football, we say it doesn't count because they lost to much better teams.

But when talented teams win with a pass first offense (Florida) it's simply because they're better than everyone else.

And when BYU wins, it's because everyone else was bad.

Surely you see the obvious bias here?

 

[Vol8188]

Because there is no future in the NFL for a dual threat QB.

Cam Newton number 1 pick
Alex Smith number 1 pick
RG III number 2 pick
Mariota number 2 pick
Manziel first round
Tebow first round

Do I need to list more read option qbs who were drafted high? Come on...

 

[Vol8188]

Not really...
I trust what was said during the NFL DRAFT who were either former players or front off people who made the comment as having a little more knowledge than you

And what did they say?

 

[ntxVOL]

So when teams without talent (Hawaii, Kentucky) have unprecedented seasons throwing the football, we say it doesn't count because they lost to much better teams.

They couldn't score when they had to play against a team with a month to prepare.

But when talented teams win with a pass first offense (Florida) it's simply because they're better than everyone else.

Spurrier's teams could still pound out the clock when they needed to. Not a finesse team by any means.

And when BYU wins, it's because everyone else was bad.

C'mon man, BYU played in the WAC. They won an MNC in the 80's but I also saw their Heisman winning QB get destroyed in the Cotton Bowl and that's what usually happened to them during bowl season.

Surely you see the obvious bias here?

Well there ya go, I guess so. Stats don't mean ****, it's about Ws and about winning the big games when it matters the most.

 

[ntxVOL]

Cam Newton number 1 pick
Alex Smith number 1 pick
RG III number 2 pick
Mariota number 2 pick
Manziel first round
Tebow first round

Do I need to list more read option qbs who were drafted high? Come on...

3 of those are busts and one hasn't played a down in the NFL yet.

 

[Vol8188]

They couldn't score when they had to play against a team with a month to prepare.


Spurrier's teams could still pound out the clock when they needed to. Not a finesse team by any means.


C'mon man, BYU played in the WAC. They won an MNC in the 80's but I also saw their Heisman winning QB get destroyed in the Cotton Bowl and that's what usually happened to them during bowl season.


Well there ya go, I guess so. Stats don't mean ****, it's about Ws and about winning the big games when it matters the most.

You're right, and everyone I mentioned won at historical levels with a pass first philosophy. And ByU didn't just win the WAC, they won a NC. So idk how you can discredit them.

 

[Vol8188]

3 of those are busts and one hasn't played a down in the NFL yet.

The original debate was about draft stock, so it's relevant when you try to claim these offenses hurt a kids draft stock.

And I wouldn't consider Alex Smith a bust. He's been a starter for what, a decade now?