Hiring a proven Power Five coach is nearly impossible

#26
#26
CAVPUT said:
Maybe but at the end of the day, I think we go Frost, Schiano, Brohm, or a coordinator.
Click to expand...

Brohm is probably not an option unless there is something we don't know about, his buyout appears to be significant.

I have said for a few weeks I would do something like this, maybe not exactly but something like it.

- Frost ($3.5-4m)
- Pelini (hire him as DC for $1m)
- Miles (head recruiter - associate hc for sub-$500,000)

Pelini and Miles would provide Frost support he needs as an inexperienced head coach, if Frost leaves and Pelini is doing well, that than gives you options in the years ahead.
 
#27
#27
tvolsfan said:
It was luck. All three scenarios required a significant amount of luck. All three schools found a proven winner who was looking for (or at least open to) a new job. That’s not a common occurrence.
Click to expand...


The pretty girls always get "lucky".

Funny how that works.
 
#28
#28
Chip
Fisher
Miles
Patterson
Gundy
Campbell
Helfrich
Strong

Are all just a few proven power 5 coaches that could be landed by the right team for the right money.

Sure some of those names are on the decline but all have been proven at some point. And there are many, many others.

Now getting one of the top 10 coaches in the nation might be very hard to land.

However for the right money you may can even land a few of those like Patterson, fisher ect.

I'm not saying Tennessee will or should hire a power 5 guy but if that is what they want it certainly can be done.
 
#30
#30
As long as over 100 teams are vying for four playoff spots college football success will be judged very narrowly, and turnover rates will continue to increase. Even if the playoff were to go to 16 teams no one would consider their program a success unless they regularly compete for one of the coveted spots.
 
#31
#31
LSU-SIU said:
Brohm is probably not an option unless there is something we don't know about, his buyout appears to be significant.

I have said for a few weeks I would do something like this, maybe not exactly but something like it.

- Frost ($3.5-4m)
- Pelini (hire him as DC for $1m)
- Miles (head recruiter - associate hc for sub-$500,000)

Pelini and Miles would provide Frost support he needs as an inexperienced head coach, if Frost leaves and Pelini is doing well, that than gives you options in the years ahead.
Click to expand...

Since this is the pool we will be swimming in if I had to guess, Frost appears to be the most exciting candidate among the up and comers. I, too, think he has the most upside and hedging your bets with Pelini and Miles certainly sounds good, but I'm not sure Miles would accept that role. Bottom line....Frost would be a great get. UF can't hire both Kelly and Frost.....or can they? With our luck, the gators will be the first dual head coaching institutions in the country.
 
#32
#32
Doubtful Kathy said:
I got called a Troll because I said it wont be a Top 5. There is none available, it will be a very very good mid major and there is NOTHING wrong if its the right one. Right? Saban was a Mid Major at one time. Its going to be ok have faith in the AD dept! ( thats not a source, just common sense)
Go Vols
Click to expand...



If you are willing to spend 10 million, several Power 5 coaches will line up for that job.


Its all about the $$$


We are at a point we cant afford not to hire a power 5 coach. We are in the lower echelon of the SEC as we sit today.
 
#34
#34
GVol1966 said:
Hard to have faith when they have failed 3 times in a row
Click to expand...

Just like the socmed generation to cling to an affected negative outlook and proclaim that enough hasn't been done to dissuade them from it. Context be damned, all shall be declared shyte until the socmed gen perceive enough of a shift in public attitudes to deem it safe to display some optimism. The mantra is don't be at the forefront of the wave, but hit it before it crests so that they've a credible stance from which to be snarky towards the wake riders.

Hamilton - a guy who should never have been AD, who brought low multiple men's programs, who financially weakened the department - hired Kiffin and Dooley. With Tennesee athletics left in the position of being debt-ladened, revenue-poor, and empty-pocketed, Hart was who UT could hire as AD, and Jones was who he could hire as HC. THAT is the context of the past three hires.

New day. New circumstances. New AD will make the next hire. Three sound reasons to discard disaffected expectations and objectively assess what unfolds - boringly adult behavior.
 
#35
#35
The OP is correct in every regard. Moreover, fan bases tend to be less forgiving and quicker to terminate the coach. Thus, if you have been successful at your current school and have built up some capital with the fan base, you are loath to leave to a school for an unproven situation where you have to repeat the process. Charlie Strong is a pretty good example. He went from virtual deity at Louisville to a bum at Texas in three short years.
 
#37
#37
Vol4ever said:
If you are willing to spend 10 million, several Power 5 coaches will line up for that job.


Its all about the $$$


We are at a point we cant afford not to hire a power 5 coach. We are in the lower echelon of the SEC as we sit today.
Click to expand...

For 10 mil, several NFL coaches will line up as well.
And I agree, we can't afford not to hire a proven, power 5 conference coach. Back up the brinks truck and go get your man to lead this program!
 
#38
#38
Vol4ever said:
If you are willing to spend 10 million, several Power 5 coaches will line up for that job.


Its all about the $$$


We are at a point we cant afford not to hire a power 5 coach. We are in the lower echelon of the SEC as we sit today.
Click to expand...

Most all power 5 coaches are paid very well. They aren't as prone to chase the money anymore. You also fail to recognize the impact a move has on the coach, his staff and family. Not so cut and dried as we keep hearing. Finally, there's no way UT is going to pay 10mil per year. Not happening. Now if you want to discuss paying Frost 4-5 mil to get him to come, yeah I can see us doing that, but 10 mil for any of the candidates not named Saban? Nah. Can't buy that.
 
#40
#40
jakez4ut said:
to some degree, but the real issue, big picture wise, is the turnover rate for head coaches today.

it's an all time high the last 5 years, and over that 5 years, the turnover rate nationally is about 50% higher than it was for the previous 15 years combined.

that's a gigantic number, and the primary reason there just aren't that many guys out there right now that have "proven track records", especially at the P5 Level.

and it's even harder to find those guys at the lower levels and 2nd tier p5 level because so many of those guys have been plucked over the last 5 years...

so you see guys like Norvell, Frost, Brohm, Morris and guys of that ilk that are on a lot of lists, but only have 1-3 years as a HC....and you just don't know.

and guys like Franklin and Fuente that got plucked and have turned in to what look like great hires....and guys like Butch Jones don't.

we're to a point where it's just really difficult to identify who those next guys are going to be, and who will be successful at the next level.

and you add impatience at the top tier schools, and it's a bad mix......
Click to expand...

The turnover rate and impatience really are tied together. The "if he hasn't done it in two years" crowd don't have a clue; but if there are enough of them, the whining and discontent work their way through.

Some coaches come in and do well with what the previous coach left - sometimes he continues the winning ways but if given time, fades into the dust like Battle. Sometimes it's a fresh face with a talented but not winning team - but he can't recruit or build the program to keep it going. Both look short term good, but hire them as a step up and you might very well get a Butch Jones.

To really build a winning program - one that has recruits flocking in takes a little time. Success breeds success, but real success doesn't happen overnight - that takes program building and maturation. It's crazy to think that Jones was one of the oldest SEC coaches. My take is that Saban is sitting in a rocker on top of the SEC mountain, and everybody else is knocking each other down and frantic to get a toehold to climb up, but they can't because twelve other coaches frothing at the mouth keep getting in the way. Maybe some day one will figure out siege mentality and build some tools - like a ladder - if the fans let it alone long enough for him to figure it out.

As you say picking an up and comer is a crap shoot because most coaches don't have a long enough history for their sins to catch up.
 
#41
#41
CAVPUT said:
Since this is the pool we will be swimming in if I had to guess, Frost appears to be the most exciting candidate among the up and comers. I, too, think he has the most upside and hedging your bets with Pelini and Miles certainly sounds good, but I'm not sure Miles would accept that role.
Click to expand...

Miles is contractually obligated to seek employment, now there is nothing saying he has to take a job or anything but he has to at least consider options in good faith.

Now, I am not saying any of those names are set in stone - more like the idea... thinking outside of the box because there are limited options to get a good coach who is already proven at a mid/top tier school. Something like this is still a gamble, but its a gamble with fallback options.
 
#42
#42
giphy.gif
 
#43
#43
zjcvols said:
As the coaching search warms up and the Grumors are going crazy, the thing I see Tennessee fans complain about the most when it comes to hiring is that Tennessee is "cheap". They hire up and comers, never proven coaches because of money, and other schools do, so why can't Tennessee?

Well, because nobody hires proven winners anymore.

Since 2007, I have counted three absolute home run, proven hires. Nick Saban at Bama (2007), Urban Meyer at Ohio State (2012), and Jim Harbaugh at Michigan in 2015. All had weird/different circumstances that led to that. Saban left the NFL during the season, Meyer quit Florida and was out of coaching for a year, and Harbaugh lost a power struggle in the NFL, eschewing other jobs for his alma mater.

Because of how huge college football is, money is no longer an option. Both Gary Patterson and Chris Petersen coach at non-traditional big-time programs in the power five. Both make $4M+. In today's climate, everybody is on TV and with the playoff, anyone power five school can have a chance at the national championship. We saw that with Washington last year.

Take a look at some SEC schools. Florida's last four coaching hires before this year? A career NFL assistant, an MWC coach, a career college coordinator, and another MWC coach. Last two Georgia hires? Both college coordinators. LSU? Just hired a guy who was previously 10-25 as an SEC coach before. Auburn hired a 5-19 coach from Iowa State and a guy from Arkansas State that had one-year head coaching experience.

Tradition and prestige don't matter anymore. What matters is having an AD you like and money. If you are at a power five school that provides both, why leave? Sure you could a Bret Bielema who can't get along with an AD, or a guy goes to his alma mater. Or someone tries his hands at the NFL from college and fails, deciding to come back to college ball. But this isn't the 1970's or 1980's anymore where you drop whatever you are doing if you get a call from a traditional power.

Tennessee has the facilities and the money. They now have a good support system. They can definitely find a great coach, but it will most likely come from the group of five range or coordinator ranks because that's how it works. It won't be because of money or Currie didn't try hard enough or Tennessee isn't a worthwhile job or booster interference.
Click to expand...

No one has hired proven winners is because they are too much caught up with the "up and comers"... And money is always an issue. Just because you have the money to spend doesn't mean you actually want to use it.

My deal with TN is that we did hire a "splash hire"... Lane Kiffin, but he bolted on us. So then we played the "not so sure route" . We got Dooley. Nobody had him on their list. Then we got Butch Jones.. nobody had him on their list.

Every year, we hear the same coaches named. I'm getting to the point where I'm fine with messing up on a hire as long as we actually get one of these names. I'm not a big fan of Scott Frost, but if he is who other schools badly want... then let's get him I guess.

Before FL hired Urban, was he on everybody's list? What about Saban before he went to LSU? The reality is that a powerhouse school and facilities could make or break an up and comer.
 
#44
#44
LSU-SIU said:
Miles is contractually obligated to seek employment, now there is nothing saying he has to take a job or anything but he has to at least consider options in good faith.

Now, I am not saying any of those names are set in stone - more like the idea... thinking outside of the box because there are limited options to get a good coach who is already proven at a mid/top tier school. Something like this is still a gamble, but its a gamble with fallback options.
Click to expand...

I will celebrate if Miles is hired!
 
#45
#45
zjcvols said:
As the coaching search warms up and the Grumors are going crazy, the thing I see Tennessee fans complain about the most when it comes to hiring is that Tennessee is "cheap". They hire up and comers, never proven coaches because of money, and other schools do, so why can't Tennessee?

Well, because nobody hires proven winners anymore.

Since 2007, I have counted three absolute home run, proven hires. Nick Saban at Bama (2007), Urban Meyer at Ohio State (2012), and Jim Harbaugh at Michigan in 2015. All had weird/different circumstances that led to that. Saban left the NFL during the season, Meyer quit Florida and was out of coaching for a year, and Harbaugh lost a power struggle in the NFL, eschewing other jobs for his alma mater.

Because of how huge college football is, money is no longer an option. Both Gary Patterson and Chris Petersen coach at non-traditional big-time programs in the power five. Both make $4M+. In today's climate, everybody is on TV and with the playoff, anyone power five school can have a chance at the national championship. We saw that with Washington last year.

Take a look at some SEC schools. Florida's last four coaching hires before this year? A career NFL assistant, an MWC coach, a career college coordinator, and another MWC coach. Last two Georgia hires? Both college coordinators. LSU? Just hired a guy who was previously 10-25 as an SEC coach before. Auburn hired a 5-19 coach from Iowa State and a guy from Arkansas State that had one-year head coaching experience.

Tradition and prestige don't matter anymore. What matters is having an AD you like and money. If you are at a power five school that provides both, why leave? Sure you could a Bret Bielema who can't get along with an AD, or a guy goes to his alma mater. Or someone tries his hands at the NFL from college and fails, deciding to come back to college ball. But this isn't the 1970's or 1980's anymore where you drop whatever you are doing if you get a call from a traditional power.

Tennessee has the facilities and the money. They now have a good support system. They can definitely find a great coach, but it will most likely come from the group of five range or coordinator ranks because that's how it works. It won't be because of money or Currie didn't try hard enough or Tennessee isn't a worthwhile job or booster interference.
Click to expand...

Good post. Expectations are whack here.

Go Vols
 
#46
#46
Currie has to do a risk assessment and contrary to the beliefs of many here... every coach has risks and some of the supposed "home run" hires... actually have A LOT of risks.

Gruden hasn't recruited. He hasn't coached players that he couldn't fine for discipline issues. He hasn't had to grovel in front of fickle teenagers or their parents. He hasn't had to go bail a kid out at 2 AM. He hasn't had to worry about whether his star RB passes Chemistry or not. Game day? He would probably be incredible to watch. But the stuff that coaches don't do in the NFL... is just as important.

Chip Kelly... he's known as a jerk. How will that play in K'ville? He left Oregon with NCAA problems. His novelty offense isn't novel any more. He may or may not be the answer. But it is certain he would want a big contract and buyout... so if his success at Oregon was unique to Oregon... it would be a VERY high risk contract.

Some have called Les Miles a "sure bet". He was fired for being a very, very mediocre coach. He's loaded NFL rosters with LSU talent but never been able to turn that into an equal level of success in the SEC.

No matter who your "sure bet" is... there are risks.

IMO, the "best" bets are those who have succeeded at more than one CFB program. That's a short list that includes Petrino, Fuente, and Franklin.

And no.... I'm not wild about Petrino either. But has he had NCAA problems like Kelly? Does he win?
 
#47
#47
I don't need a power 5 coach to be happy. The only other guy I want other than Jon Gruden would be Scott Frost. He took an 0-12 team, and has transformed it into an undefeated team.

It takes real coaching to accomplish something like that. Lord knows what that man could do with the talent at Tennessee.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#48
#48
Matt2496 said:
I don't need a power 5 coach to be happy. The only other guy I want other than Jon Gruden would be Scott Frost. He took an 0-12 team, and has transformed it into an undefeated team.

It takes real coaching to accomplish something like that. Lord knows what that man could do with the talent at Tennessee.
Click to expand...

I will be happy with him but he doesn't have a very long track record. That could be nothing more than the stars aligning for a good but not great coach.

Fuente is now getting it done at his second school. Petrino takes losing teams and wins. Franklin made a winner at Vandy then turned PSU around.

If you want Frost then why not Norvell or Chad Morris? Why not Brohm who did as much or more at WKU?

I won't be disappointed with Frost... but you shouldn't set yourself up to be disappointed with a great hire just because it wasn't one of the few you decide you'll accept.
 
#49
#49
Indeed, it has been impossible for the Vols to hire a proven power 5 coach, let's pray it doesn't happen again:)
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top